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[ARTISAN] Land Mines


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#1 Tleliaxu

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:47 AM

In honor of my main (yes, it's weird, I know) finally reaching 200 after 2-odd years, I propose the following:

 

 

 

 

Type: Summoning

Cast cost: 5% Max MP + 100/150/200/250

Required Summon Amount: 10

 

[Land Mine]

Max HP: 1

Attack Power: ???

Accuracy: ???

Defense: 1

Magic Defense: 1

Dodge Rate: 1

Critical: ???

 

 

[Requirements]

Class: Artisan

Skill: Alchemy Craft(5)

Skill Point Cost: 1

 

 

 

Land mines are relatively passive invisible NON-MOBILE NON-TETHERED summons spawned by a craftable item from Advanced Alchemy Craft (1), so technically this is 2 suggestions in 1. They direct aggro (damage type: physical) at hostile units at very close range (think the crystals in Arumic Valley, but invisible). Mines possess the same status effect properties as explosives, ie mana burn, accuracy down (blind), damage over time (poison), stun (concussion) and def down. These mines trigger their effects on self-destruct and death.

 

Mines have very short attack range but large aoe (15 meters for Explosive Mines and 25m for Flashbangs)

Specifically for the accuracy down mines (flashbangs/???):

 

 

>Flashbang:

When triggered, applies Accuracy Down debuff to its target and spawns a smoky animation resembling [CLERIC] Mana Flame. Self-destructs.

 

 

damage over time (poison gas/???)

 

>Gas Mine:

When triggered, applies Poisoned debuff to its target and spawns a smoky animation resembling the viridian green of poison attacks and [CLERIC] Mana Flame. Self-destructs.

 

 

as  well as defense down (claymores?)

 

>Claymore:

When triggered, applies Defense Down debuff to its target and spawns an explosive animation resembling the Champion aoe attack Achilles Heel Strike or something more appropriate (I know there's a really good explosive animation ingame, can't recall it - help?). Self-destructs.

 
 

 

Additonally, besides being able to craft and deploy these little buggers, Artisans with the benefit of some sort of True Sight (Third Eye, Mystic Eye, Second Sight etc) will be able to defuse these mines and convert them to their own use.

 

 

Play around with the concept and design here.

 

 

~*~

 

 

WHY???

 

Explosives are bad. Grenades are worse. The cast range is.. pathetic. The cast animation alone is ridiculously long on purpose. It looks cool of course, but it's more useful in PvM than PvP.

 

Having positioned mines will give artis a more powerful presence in PvP as well as more options in PvM, especially levelling on Orlo.

 

There is no reason that crafters should be forced to learn combat passives when they have the power of demolitions. Currently artis are forced to either skill combat skills and then reset at max (de rigeur, practically) or just plain leech exp if they max their crafting skills first. This is just nonsense.  Sure, Gravity gets money from reset books. Sure, there's a free reset from the mayor. I just don't think we should have such a forced path for a class that is based on diversity, on having options, on being ALWAYS PREPARED. What artisan doesn't have a carefully sorted storage and likely a SECONDARY storage for multiple weapons and armor? OPTIONS. They define artisans.

 

Anyway, this suggestion isn't as finely tuned as I'd like but Read & Review, guys. This one's particularly close to my heart, so tell me the good, bad and the ugly (but be nice :) )


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#2 Feuer

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 01:37 PM

*cough*


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#3 Tleliaxu

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:12 PM

Ah! Good thing you reminded me why my suggestion was necessary; it was starting to bother me. Your idea had those creepy mines on legs or explosive mini-mechs and whatnot. And that slightly weird Gadget of Protection (good in PvM, I guess, dunno about PvP). I remember reading this and thinking, "They walk? Wth!" Either way, the concept is similar enough to this one as well as what I posted on other forums 3 years ago, so we know there's interest in the basic idea. 

 

To refocus: I'm going for more of a Techies in RO2 (plant static mines all over the place and play juking mindgames with enemies) than straight-up send explosive summons to enemy (slowmoving nuke, essentially). 

 

 Since we mentioned craftable mini-robos, this might be a good time to bring up again the idea of CG summons for artis to replace merc hunters, warriors and Judgement. Crafting, people. 

 

(On a side note: someone told me a few years ago that acid bombs/explosives degrade a target's armor. I've never been able to establish whether this is true or not. Can someone confirm? )

 

 

 

EDIT: WarpPortal has a wordfilter that replaces D : Ot :A with RO2. Who knew?


Edited by Tleliaxu, 13 September 2015 - 03:14 PM.

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#4 Feuer

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:35 PM

Everyone has opinions, I just share mine and hope they solve problems. 


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#5 Tleliaxu

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:31 AM

@Feuer: Your suggestion was good and it could solve a number of problems, uses mats that tend to get forgotten or are never used from lvl 30 onwards.

 

BUT

 

I think we need more than that. It doesn't advance BA playstyle as much as it could and it's really cautious. (Also creepy mini-robos are creepy...)

Artis are all about planning and preparation and this suggestion capitalizes on that a bit more than a few others I've seen. Having said that, even my suggestion needs to be taken to the next level. 

 

Guys, see what you can do with this. I have a feeling a workable suggestion is very close.


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#6 pdfisher

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 06:32 AM

Keep in mind that Artisans are set to be changed.


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#7 Tleliaxu

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:49 AM

My suggs are starting to sound a lot like 1v1 convos. I know the (delayed) dealer remake is imminent but I'd like more people's views on what can be done with this sort of skill. We need more strategic as well as tactical play - this is just based on what I've seen in AA and CD, so take my anecdotal account as you like.

 

Or am I full of it? Considering there are Artisan class reps who should find the topic of interest, I've yet to see any here. I'll give it another week before having this thread locked.


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#8 pdfisher

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 01:31 PM

I like the land mine idea, it would be similar to the traps that Scouts have. I however am waiting to see what is done with the Artisan in the remake.


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#9 Feuer

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:37 PM

imminent my foot, they have been left unfinished for over 2 years, don't hold your breath mate. 


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#10 Tleliaxu

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:55 AM

Maybe we could do both - craftable mini-CG summons that attack DO NOT FEAR US, WE COME IN PEACE (replacing Dread/Terror Knights and hunters/warriors) as well as landmines and maybe remote mines (not sure how that one could be implemented...) Maybe make more options - incentivize the use of craftable summons by making merc hunters/warriors etc cost zulie or reduce the amount of zulie gained from drops while active. The zulie drop reduction would not apply to craftable summons.

 

I believe in the trickle-up theory for games, in that eventually community content filters into the game in some way, so whether the remake is soon or in 2225, we might as well keep spit-balling until we have a rounded remake. Could even speed things up (?? O.o it could happen...!)

1498.bmp BOOOOOM!


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#11 Feuer

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 06:12 AM

i already have my proposals for summons that are being delayed due to the staffs plans to do a summon update -in 30 years-. could post the details later if you want to see them. 


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#12 Tleliaxu

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 07:39 AM

Please do so, every bit helps (eventually).


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#13 Feuer

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 08:48 PM

https://forums.warpp...s-new-abilitys/


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#14 100002969028758

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 02:24 PM

his proposal is similar to this mine

 

 

https://youtu.be/gWLtrdC-aHc


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#15 Feuer

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 02:58 PM

seems pretty cheap. it should only explode once. 


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#16 Tleliaxu

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 06:03 PM

Waaaitaminnit... so everybody's had the same basic idea... and it hasn't been implemented yet?

 

This makes me think that we should actually be focusing on whether this idea is (1) balanced and (2) doable by ROSE devs.

Also, we should maybe refocus on what modifications are required for the existing skilltree. Do we shift 'Explosives' to basic Alchemy Craft and leave mines for Advanced Alchemy Craft? (That would remove a powerful levelling tool for dealers though.) Or position mines as independent from grenades/explosives in Alchemy/Advanced Alchemy Crafting? A seperate skill? (Ordinance craft? Demolitions?)  

 

@kleber silva: nice implementation :) I'd rather they animate+deal damage once and then self-destruct though - I guess the continuing explosions are to show the effects in test mode. Those monsters are weird lol! Have you tried making the mines invis?

 

@Feuer: That Fire Elemental reminds me of Xin the firepanda. I think I saw a similar Slam effect in LoM:SE in the last few mod versions. I like it.

Adding Mend to basic Bonfire feels very much like the last few updates (Healing Touch and Mystic Guard subeffects) and I like that even more. So dedicated muses with a large summon gauge can cast 1 bonfire alongside their flames etc. Might even make the Ice Dragon viable again... O.O!

Some of the summons seem a bit OP. Are you suggesting soldiers should just get these summons as a normal job skill, or is it a GA drop/IM purchase? Because a knight with a summon can solo very comfortably to 230, champ even moreso.


Edited by Tleliaxu, 19 September 2015 - 05:52 AM.

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#17 Feuer

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 06:35 PM

balance is just numbers, the soldier summon would be like the unique summon beast book, but a dreadnaught instead of a beast.

everything could be fine tuned, the point is does it make summons viable and unique, not only on a per-class basis, but on a per summon basis and per build basis as well. 


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#18 iMatt

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 06:45 PM

In the beginning Chuck Norris created God; and then God created Chuck Norris Facts.

 

This is similar with Rose:

 

In the beginning Feuer created Rose; and then Rose created the suggestions section for Feuer.

 

 

 

no hate just love wkwkwkkw


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#19 Tleliaxu

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 08:02 PM

omg a raider kill it


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#20 Tleliaxu

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 01:43 AM

On a more serious note, for what reasons could this idea have failed to be implemented? It seems to be so obvious to so many players, surely it's occurred to the devs. Is it too disruptive to overall gameplay?


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#21 Feuer

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 02:36 AM

No, they're busy with other things and Artisans are NEVER on the fix list with any real priority. They'll fix them when they have nothing better to do. 


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#22 Dragonlark

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 08:38 AM

On a more serious note, for what reasons could this idea have failed to be implemented? It seems to be so obvious to so many players, surely it's occurred to the devs. Is it too disruptive to overall gameplay?

 

While right now the devs are busy with the current updates (the Elemental update and other changes currently being tested in Pegasus), Artisan changes are on the way! They are on a wish list for future updates, it may just take some time.


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#23 Feuer

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 10:45 AM

'wish list' not 'priority list' :) 


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