11 replies to this topic

[Apocryphos]

PvP Etiquette

What is Etiquette?

Etiquette:refers to conventional forms and usages: the rules of etiquette. Decorum suggests dignity and a sense of what is becoming or appropriate for a person of good breeding competition: a fine sense of decorum.

Why am I making this?

Because this is the only way PvP can be balanced without the help of our [sarcasm] amazing developer team [/sarcasm].

Why should I read this?

Read it learn it live it, cause I told you too.Well if you don't  wanna have a balanced experience with a lower tier class, then the doors on the left. gtfo.

When would I actually use this?

Typically in practice mode, in 1v1's mainly because group pvp is a clusterf*** of players in a bloody or*y trying to kill the other team.

Who actually uses this?

Not sure, but hopefully more, considering how competent our dev team is in "balancing"

**********Disclaimer**************

1.If you're a locker in blood and soul, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

2.If you're a stuck up sore loser, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

3.If you're someone who'd use any method to win, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

4. This is subject to change.

========================
=====Optional Rules======
========================
- Gear balancing (Not necessarily the same)
- Naked
- Chain Combo restriction
- Tournament restrictions.Link here
========================
=======Vocabulary========
========================

Psuedo Super Armor - skills with psuedo super armor have immunity to knockdown but not knockback.

True Super Armor - skill with true super armor has immunity to knockdown and knockback,

Knockdown- a knockdown where you can roll from.

Hard Knockdown(HKD)- a knockdown where you cannot roll out of.

Knockback- a knockback where you cannot roll out of or super armor out of.

Air Recovery(AR)-The recovery used in the air.

Charging- 4th job skill to charge one's awakening bar.

Locking- act of repetative actions where one cannot escape from via c/action key button.

Bread&Butter- Skill that is used purely for damage. recoverable or cannot be used in rapid succession. *flexible exceptions to skill looping*

Blitz- to rush an enemy before they are finished buffing/charging. or aren't ready.

Stun- Unable to walk/run/dash or use skill for fixed amount of time (relatively small)

Root- Unable to dash,jump able to use skills.

Frozen- Rooted, and stunned, no pushable, no skill allowed.

========================
====Bread&ButterSkills===
========================

-all x attacks used in the air.

-all skills that are rollable from.

(Additions to be added upon request w/ reason)
========================
====Universal Rules======
========================

- Do not loop locking skills.

- Do not 1-combo the enemy.

- Do not spam hard knockdown skills.

- Do not chain combo stun lock

- Do not chain combo wall/push lock

- Do not blitz an enemy.

- A combo ends when you've used all linkable skills once.

========================
=======Destroyer========
========================

- Do not aas more than 3 seconds. (Bread&Butter Skill)

- Do not repeat any launches after a failed AR

========================
=======Sentinel=========
========================

-Do not stack freeze more than once per catch.

-Do not stack netbind more than once per catch

========================
=======Dragoon=========
========================

-Do not repeat any skill more than once per catch.

========================
=======Overlord=========
========================

- Do not repeat any skill more than once per catch.

========================
========Savage=========
========================

- Do not repeat any skill more than once per catch.

========================
==========Ninja=========
========================

- Do not repeat any skill more than once per catch.

- Do not repeat any launches more than once per catch.

========================
========Sorcerer========
========================

- Do not repeat any skill more than once per catch.

========================
========Invoker=========
========================

-Do not repeat any skills more than once per catch.

-Do not heal.

-Do not use magnet.

========================
=======Jumeaux=========
========================

-Do not repeat any skills more than once per catch.

-Do not ghost fighter.

========================
======Summoner========
========================

-Do not repeat any skills more than once per catch.

-Do not heal.

-Do not camp corners.

-Do not chain combo root-lock.

[Agitodesu]

Nice.

Edited by Agitodesu, 15 September 2015 - 03:45 PM.

[Homurasan]

However. You can remove the part about Sorcerers since they have little to no possibility of catching.

[Agitodesu]

They still have the possibility and some players are good at that. An example would be shorthair.

[Apocryphos]

However. You can remove the part about Sorcerers since they have little to no possibility of catching.

What part?

-Repeating skills that give status infliction's that render's enemies immobile can't be a bread&butter skill. So, Blizzard, snow blues, and time freeze, can't qualify to be classified as Bread&Butter, I guess emblem's cooldown is high enough to consider it as a bread&butter skill, back draft, and magic missiles can be repeated strictly cause they don't render players immobile or there cooldown's just wont allow it.

[flubsy]

This is kinda ok.  Though, the problem with 1 move per catch is certain classes do like 30 different moves and take away 50% of your health or more whereas other classes can only do like 5 and take away 10%.  SO I've never really been a big fan of that.  Obviously exaggerating with the 30 different moves, but the amount of hits they do per move can be way more than other classes and the damage doesn't really balance out.  

 

I always say, it's up to the player to use their common sense to know what's fair and what isn't.  If their damage output is taking away 25% of your health, try to do the same.  If they kill you in 1 go, do the same.  etc etc, you get my pattern here.

[Apocryphos]

This is kinda ok.  Though, the problem with 1 move per catch is certain classes do like 30 different moves and take away 50% of your health or more whereas other classes can only do like 5 and take away 10%.  SO I've never really been a big fan of that.  Obviously exaggerating with the 30 different moves, but the amount of hits they do per move can be way more than other classes and the damage doesn't really balance out.  

 

I always say, it's up to the player to use their common sense to know what's fair and what isn't.  If their damage output is taking away 25% of your health, try to do the same.  If they kill you in 1 go, do the same.  etc etc, you get my pattern here.

 

There are skills that can be used more than once, in a combo, the goto skill for damage breadnbutter skills so to speak.

in addition there is the optional rules, where actual gear balancing is taken into consideration. Well these were the rules i set for myself.

Bread&Butter- Skill that is used purely for damage. recoverable or cannot be used in rapid succession. *flexible exceptions to skill looping*

aka an exception to "Do not use any skill more than once per catch restriction."

 

 

[flubsy]

gear balancing doesn't mean too much, since the damage of certain classes are supposed to be higher

 

for example, Myrmidon

 

Honestly I always say play how you want to play and don't complain win or lose.  Just get good enough to handle any situation.  Hence rules are rules, but also learn to play without them.  I think people get better when they learn to play without them in order to experiment with what works and doesn't for them and slowly dial it back from there if they feel the need to.

 

At least in my guild, I let everyone play with anything, they're just not allowed to complain or gloat, win or lose.  It helps them to learn how to get out of locks along with learning how to work as a team in different situations.

 

[Apocryphos]

 

PvP Etiquette

What is Etiquette?

Etiquette:refers to conventional forms and usages: the rules of etiquette. Decorum suggests dignity and a sense of what is becoming or appropriate for a person of good breeding competition: a fine sense of decorum.

Why am I making this?

Because this is the only way PvP can be balanced without the help of our [sarcasm] amazing developer team [/sarcasm].

Why should I read this?

Read it learn it live it, cause I told you too.Well if you don't  wanna have a balanced experience with a lower tier class, then the doors on the left. gtfo.

When would I actually use this?

Typically in practice mode, in 1v1's mainly because group pvp is a clusterf*** of players in a bloody or*y trying to kill the other team.

Who actually uses this?

Not sure, but hopefully more, considering how competent our dev team is in "balancing"

**********Disclaimer**************

1.If you're a locker in blood and soul, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

2.If you're a stuck up sore loser, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

3.If you're someone who'd use any method to win, please leave the thread alone and don't comment at all.

4. This is subject to change.

 

 

gear balancing doesn't mean too much, since the damage of certain classes are supposed to be higher

for example, Myrmidon

 

Honestly I always say play how you want to play and don't complain win or lose.  Just get good enough to handle any situation.  Hence rules are rules, but also learn to play without them.  I think people get better when they learn to play without them in order to experiment with what works and doesn't for them and slowly dial it back from there if they feel the need to.

At least in my guild, I let everyone play with anything, they're just not allowed to complain or gloat, win or lose.  It helps them to learn how to get out of locks along with learning how to work as a team in different situations.

 

I did  mention it's not necessarily the same, for gear balancing.

Getting out of locks in 1v1 is impossible w/o 3rd party interference, given little to no window frame of recovery, hence why it's called a lock, rules are rules and these are technically unwritten rules as I have no authority in enforcing them, which is why I specifically point out that it shouldn't be used anywhere else except 1v1.

Anything else that doesn't look right or not clear? TBH If you're not locking your practically already using these rules to a given extent.

[checksome]

This is very good but the main problem is the class balancing.

[Bustincaps]

I'm very happy to finally see a thread regarding PvP etiquette, considering that is the thing players on this server struggle with so intensely. I was, however, surprised to see no skill restrictions! You didn't dive into the no-no's for specific classes regarding certain skills in 1v1 PvP. For example: Headspin catching, Shootdown catching, Hypnotizer catching (or Hypno + Woodrush/April, and using these 2 skills in 1v1 in general), Sword Dance catching (although this skill has been fixed, but it was once considered taboo), C*ckroach Life, Weave variants, and lots more. Maybe stuff like this could be considered "suggested etiquette", rather than "etiquette", but as an oldschool player, I've always known them to be very obvious no-no's. Players here seem to disregard it.

 

There are skills that can be used more than once, in a combo, the goto skill for damage breadnbutter skills so to speak.

in addition there is the optional rules, where actual gear balancing is taken into consideration. Well these were the rules i set for myself.

Bread&Butter- Skill that is used purely for damage. recoverable or cannot be used in rapid succession. *flexible exceptions to skill looping*

aka an exception to "Do not use any skill more than once per catch restriction."

 

This is true, but it amazed me that such a comment was generalized to all classes. I don't care if it's a "Bread & Butter" skill or not; if it's not X attack (Chaincombo is still spam if you repeat the same sequence more than once, but just animation cancelling the same X attack is fine), it's still spam. There are other skills that I would consider to be acceptable to use more than once, like AAS & Aerial Frenzy (for example: launch -> 3 AAS shots -> relaunch of some sort -> 3 AAS shots), or something simple like Cutdown, but those skills are not Bread & Butter. You can't escape them if used correctly, and if you'd consider them B & B, skills like Headspin would have to be considered B & B as well, since it can be recovered from if used incorrectly. I don't know about you, but if someone used Headspin more than once in a combo on me, I'd be pretty unhappy. To be honest, I'd say it's much safer to go with the "no skill more than once per combo" rule, rather than trying to debate which skills are "Bread & Butter", or okay to use more than once per combo. 

 

Spam, which you refer to as locking, is simply a combo containing the same skill more than once within it. Spam can also be used to describe someone who is continuously using a taboo/semi-taboo catching skill. For example, Shootdown catching is a semi-taboo catch, but becomes taboo when used too often as a method of catching. No one likes a nab that runs around spamming traps and kiting you while they deplete your HP entirely using Shootdown catch. It's too easy. In other words, spam is basically a broader term for locking, but essentially means the same thing. 

Edited by Bustincaps, 04 October 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Kristof3195]

Everything is fine except for twins ghost fighter. Im not a twin player anymore, but ghost fighter is pretty easy to counter for almost every class its not as much of a problem as goes for weave.