255 replies to this topic

[Genesis]

- The Axe Fury effect reduces MP Cost of skills rather than increasing them.
- The Taunt effect does not work if the caster is the one already targeted by the attacker.

Thanks for the report, these two issues have been fixed for next patch.

[Feuer]

Ok so far the Axe Fury spell is working pretty much exactly as I had hoped.

 

It bumped their damage back to what it used to be but only under very certain circumstances. And those circumstances prevent it from become too powerful in  PvP but allow it to really shine in PvM.

For starts, you can't just Berserk and 3 Shot because the initial 10% AP reduction from the change over. However, if left un targeted for too long they can stack that critical damage and then become a true threat but only for a few seconds. This means paying attention to your stacks, and preserving cooldowns for a strong burst. This also comes with inherent risks, holding back for too long, you could be costing yourself DPS or you could die before you get the chance to use it.

 

And in PvM, it allows you to gain the stacks while waiting for your high damage CD's to timeout, giving you an optimal rotation to use for quick burst phases. And if you use it properly with your absorb and have invested into HP Received effects you can potentially restore your HP to full on a lucky critical strike.

 

So with that, I wonna ask a few questions for Sword Champs.

 

What problems do you currently face?

and what have you tried to counter those issues?

also, have you tested to see if these problems have already been fixed on Pegasus? 

 

 

Edited by Feuer, 24 October 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[EveryBodysHatin]

 

So with that, I wonna ask a few questions for Sword Champs.

 

What problems do you currently face?

and what have you tried to counter those issues?

also, have you tested to see if these problems have already been fixed on Pegasus? 

Sword champs in pvp are currently lacking crit % any raider can crit a sword champ.

 

and what have you tried to counter those issues?

 

i am stacking sen against raiders but i miss a lot but that way i'll live longer to get what i need to get done.

when i get stacked by a raider i have to run because they'll be able to crit me easily if stacked. (in AA)

 

also, have you tested to see if these problems have already been fixed on Pegasus? 

 

Not yet been busy. 

[KatsuraKujo]

Sword champs in pvp are currently lacking crit % any raider can crit a sword champ.

 

and what have you tried to counter those issues?

 

i am stacking sen against raiders but i miss a lot but that way i'll live longer to get what i need to get done.

when i get stacked by a raider i have to run because they'll be able to crit me easily if stacked. (in AA)

 

also, have you tested to see if these problems have already been fixed on Pegasus? 

 

Not yet been busy. 

you should test it. Because there's a new system which is crit defence. That will now determine the crit success of an offensive crit vs a defensive crit rating.

 

Accu on the other hand, i can't say anything cuz if you're hitting a raider, its quite obvious of the situation. you'll miss quite a lot. 

[Feuer]

Yeah just remember Critical Defense is generated from CHA, until they add in support via gems and sub-stats. 

[DoubleRose]

The graceful swings passive doesn't help champs much. The only use I get out of it is during boss fights in dgs

[Feuer]

Graceful Swings or the augmentation of pierce def on it in the second tree? 

[EveryBodysHatin]

Graceful Swings or the augmentation of pierce def on it in the second tree? 

both of them are kinda useless in pvp which is why i don't bother investing points into those 2 passives

[Feuer]

K. What about it is ineffective? 

[EveryBodysHatin]

K. What about it is ineffective? 

The proc time for Graceful swings is just too short 

 

 

same goes for piercing grace 

 

you get basically 5 secs of 50% aspd             for this to be effective is to have aspd also and a lot of it.

 

and 3 secs for the Pierce def 

 

 

 

It ain't worth investing skill points into those i'd rather get passives that give aspd  and ap or acc

[Feuer]

So the window to react to having the proc is too short for you to use your burst, did I follow that correctly? 

What I took from those procs when they made them was that, in between your skill casting and melee hits, you'd have your burst on cool down while you built those effects, then when they proc'd you;d use the skills to induce a significant damage increase. That's what the idea was behind Axe Fury and it works good, but you also have 10 seconds to notice + react + cast skills. 

But on swords it's slightly reversed. Because it's attack speed, and doesn't increase skill damage, you'd want to use your burst and let melee hits in between the skills to built procs, and once all your skills are on CD, you should be close to the proc counter capping. Is it not working that way? 

Edited by Feuer, 24 October 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[EveryBodysHatin]

So the window to react to having the proc is too short for you to use your burst, did I follow that correctly? 

What I took from those procs when they made them was that, in between your skill casting and melee hits, you'd have your burst on cool down while you built those effects, then when they proc'd you;d use the skills to induce a significant damage increase. That's what the idea was behind Axe Fury and it works good, but you also have 10 seconds to notice + react + cast skills. 

But on swords it's slightly reversed. Because it's attack speed, and doesn't increase skill damage, you'd want to use your burst and let melee hits in between the skills to built procs, and once all your skills are on CD, you should be close to the proc counter capping. Is it not working that way? 

It is working that way but i am just saying 5 secs for 50% aspd is not worth spending so much skill points to max out those passives.  maybe if skills were to be counted and not just melee attacks then yes. 

 

after the 5 sec proc is over the piercing grace will be applied and it's only 3 secs. ''second effect''  to graceful swings.

 

and then the same process will be repeated again.

[Feuer]

The Piercing and Aspeed should be applying at the same time o.O so that right there is weird. 

But I agree, aspeed seems odd. Especially with the new Aspeed changes from passives etc and subs/gems. Even though the role of a sword in the Champion Archetype list is the 'balanced' option [equal skill and melee capability with solid accuracy] aspeed itself doesn't need to be used. 

 

What would say if graceful swings stacked up to a proc effect of 15% Attack Power for 10 seconds, and Piercing Swings remained it's values and duration was increased to 8 seconds? Think that would balance it out to it's archetype option [since both effects work with either melee or skills] and give enough time to properly use the effect?  

[DoubleRose]

% pen is pretty meh in pvm, especially for only 3 seconds

[EveryBodysHatin]

 

 

What would say if graceful swings stacked up to a proc effect of 15% Attack Power for 10 seconds, and Piercing Swings remained it's values and duration was increased to 8 seconds? Think that would balance it out to it's archetype option [since both effects work with either melee or skills] and give enough time to properly use the effect?  

Yea that can work.

 

 

(For Now those 2 passives are not that useful to me so i invested skill points into other passives. )

[Feuer]

Well Monday point the suggestion out to Leonis cause I'll probly forget, he may be up for allowing it to be tested. That's essentially what I had done with Axe Fury and it worked out great. 

[Tormented]

*This is just a comment posting based on my current experience ingame and on the current changes in Pegasus - don't bother flaming me as has happened in the past as I won't respond.*

 

I have been on Pegasus at various times over the years with a few of my chars and have recently tried it out again, although again for the life of me I don't know why I bothered

 

FYI - Ingame I tend to only PVM as PVP really doesn't interest me, since I know that I won't be blinged up as any opponent I come across and so will always die.

 

And where's the fun in that?

 

I also tend to solo most of my chars, as parties are few and far between and also a lot of parties only party their friends and not strangers.

Which I'm sort of fine with

 

But all I get from going onto Pegasus, especially this time around, is how much harder it is to stay alive and get any xp to lvlup.

 

Not being blinged to the nines like a lot of the players ingame are, means playing against a game that has been for a number of years now biased for the high lvl players that are blinged up and in parties - but being blinged means that they can also cope solo too. Normal players just haven't a chance with normal gear and skills.

 

All that is happening on Pegasus atm is that you are weakening the normal player, which has the effect of giving the advantage to the parties and higher lvl blinged players.

 

Some of these new % based skills/stats seem to have the effect of making the normal char a hell of a lot weaker, when they weren't that strong in the first place.

 

On Pegasus, my unblinged chars now seem to die a lot easier than ingame - so I'm not looking forward to the Pegasus trials going live with the proper game at all.

 

And I know that you will bring in a lot of it from Pegasus, as it seems that's what the high lvl players want and it's what you've done in the past to the game.

 

But can't you please remember that there are normal, run of the mill players that are not blinged to the nines, for whatever reason, are not able to get into parties and get the major advantages the partied players get, and that the normal players need to be taken into consideration when you bring in these changes?

 

I don't know the players numbers ingame and their stats, lvls, skills, unique skills, IM skills and just how blinged up they are, so I don't know if that type of player is the norm ingame or not. Maybe the % of normal players is so low that you've decided that you can ignore us because the numbers are so low - I don't know, I'm not in a postion to know and probably will never know, since player numbers etc are a confidential part of your business that you will never disclose to anyone outside of the business.

 

As I say, all I can see to look forward to is that the game is going to get harder to lvlup and more frustrating to play.

 

And with that you need to be careful - since at some point players will decide it's no longer fun and stop playing.

 

 

 

[MonnaLise]

Did Leo even read my post ? lmao

 

Nobodys taking serious posts from pple who got lower 1k posts? man Ive brought up the problems about those new champion passives ever since it was implemented. Also brought up problems about dual raiders nerf and now they are really weak in pega.. but no one cared about tssss

[Feuer]

Well this isn't a class balancing session, it's actually intended for the new mechanics. The only reason some have been changed is due to the new mechanics interfering with previous systems leading to instabilities. I tested the dual Raider myself already and have no complaints about it in PvM, so I'm not sure if you're talking about PvP or not. However if there is a problem caused by the new mechanics, you can share it so it can get fixed or looked into instead of just being an onion in the fruit bowl  

[Genesis]

[PVP] Geon archangel crumpler : Dodge down 5%
Geon archangel crumpler :Dodge down 25%

Is this intentional?

Those numbers don't match what is currently on Pegasus:


The PvP unique skill of Geon Archangel Crumpler provides an additional percentage bonus that scales with your base stats. If it was broken before, it's fixed now.

[Feuer]

I honestly would request this be taken seriously.

With the limitation to elemental selection on Mages, it'd be dumb to not at least build 2-3 diff parts of a few trees. And the result is me desperately needing a 3rd skill bar..

I'm dead serious. I can't fit everything that is legitimately required for my Mage to play to it's fullest extent on just the current 2. >< it's really frustrating. lol. 

[Leonis]

Changes that will be put to test.

 

Graceful Swings

• Proc Effect will now provide 15% Attack Power, for 8 seconds.

Piercing Grace

• Effect updated to last for 8 seconds, instead of 3, to match Graceful Swings.

Tormented,
You may want to go back over some of the previous discussions behind why this is being done. It is not making the lower level player weaker to make them weak. It's making the buff effects consistent, throughout game play, instead of granting ungodly power to low level players from a high level player, thus causing them to obliterate and exceedingly power through the low level content, and once the buffs end, feel so weak it becomes a discouraging feeling to not have the buffs.

Unfortunately, without any actual data on what your situation is, I can't really begin to accurately comment on why you feel like you're dying more. Providing that information helps us be aware of what your experience is, and we can judge if it's under intentional design or not.
If you're fighting things far above your level, then yes you should be having a difficult time and if not playing skillfully, dying more than usual.
If you're not really paying attention or giving it much effort, then yes, monsters will eventually kill you from your negligance, and that's regarless of gear.
With the changes we've been making, it also means changing your play mentality to perhaps focus a bit more on survival.
Please try to provide more details behind your experience, so we can understand why this is your experience and work with you on the feedback.
Again, unfortunately, you didn't provide enough details for us to work with to be able to make any adjustments we can value to help address your experience.

I judge many of my personal balance tests on "normal player" setup, no refines, basic stat setup and skill choices, paying attention to my fight, health and monster behavior. Because at a minimum, that's my expectancy of an involved player during combat, because it keeps me engaged otherwise I suffer more damage in the end or die. Which is rightfully my fault, for not paying better attention.

MonnaLise,
I have directly responded to you.

You are not being ignored.

Maybe you should not ignore me?

 

And yes, some Raider skills were nerfed intentionally. If you want to give more feedback than saying it's weaker, it could help us understand why and whether or not it's having the desired effect.

Feuer,
I understand your position on wanting a 3rd hotkey bar, but currently not on deck for development plans. If we were going to, we would likely take the time to allow for a completely customizable mapping of the keyboard to be assigned so you can map as many keys as you wish (or can).
 

[Feuer]

Changes that will be put to test.

 

Graceful Swings

• Proc Effect will now provide 15% Attack Power, for 8 seconds.

Piercing Grace

• Effect updated to last for 8 seconds, instead of 3, to match Graceful Swings.

 

 

OK Sagia, now you gotta test it and let us know if it's working out better and resolving the issues you listed Cheers [and thanks Leo]

 

Also Leo, are there any entry commands like /cast or /target left in the client that could be turned back on? I remember a long long time ago you could manually cast skills by typing a /command skillname or something [for a very short time, it was when the debug shortcut alt + d was accidentally left in the client]? That could temporarily fix skill bars by making cast scripts and manual keymaps o.O 

 

or possibly re-enable the ctrl/alt swapping on the secondary bar? 

Edited by Feuer, 26 October 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[EveryBodysHatin]

Changes that will be put to test.

 

Graceful Swings

• Proc Effect will now provide 15% Attack Power, for 8 seconds.

Piercing Grace

• Effect updated to last for 8 seconds, instead of 3, to match Graceful Swings.

 

The stats/substats are not updated yet on pegasus , also graceful swings & piercing grace are not updated

 

Also we cannot use the critical protection status yet either. 

[Feuer]

I didn't mean right now xD