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Putting skill points into Item Mall


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#1 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:11 PM

The community at most would like to have skill points available for purchase in game. I just wanted to know what everyone thinks about this.

If I remember correctly Popcorn shot down this idea and will not be possible even though It has made an appearance in the item mall numerous times.

 

  • Pros
  • Players can buy skill points successfully with either gold or IM depening how you buy it
  • Making numerous entrances, the prices of capsules never dropped and remains still at 20-30 gold on average.
  • Guaranteed rather than based on luck. (Spending gold to roll for skill points is quite the gamble)
  • Helpful to all classes especially the dragon kins with massive skill sets.
  • Encourages people to actually farm cards to maybe boost up a skill they can not afford to in the first place
  • Save a lot of time ( I have spent 6 years playing and spending nearly 40,0000 gold on them traps, never got enough still(And I am not maxing everything))
  • Maybe some changes to the classes may need extra sp
  • Having extra SP may even get some people to get the ultimate awakening skill(I had many new players come up to me and request I show them Ultimates on a few characters, Only to turn them down saying " You better give up unless you love pve")(I myself am a heavy PvE and PvP player)
  • High end players have much more to do with skills over level 5
  • New players that manages to buy them can put points into some passive they usually can not get early on due to the lack of sp

 

 

 

  • Cons
  • It is based on spending IM for it. (You can farm gold and try to buy it from someone risky)
  • It's slightly too expensive. (It is still worth it in my opinion)

Unfortunately I am a little biased about this so please forgive me, If you can find other Cons of why it is bad please do so.

 

This is only to persuade developers to reconsider adding it to the item mall.

 

 


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#2 ManItsMike

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:15 PM

I'd like to see this as well. Unfortunately, I was turned down as it devalues hunter capsules and such.

Popcorn, mind if I share your response to me? :)
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#3 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:18 PM

It does not turn down or devalue the price of capsules. The price range as I stated from the past 4 years averaged at a solid 20 gold. The skill points in the item mall does not have to be permanent. (occasionally would be preferred)

 

 


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#4 ok121

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:23 PM

This is a win-win situation if anything. Game profits off players that want to spend IM To BUY skill points. Both the player and the game developers win. It's a great way for the game to make more money. I really don't see a downside to this other than it slightly effecting the sales of hunter capsules which is pretty insignificant.
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#5 SoulSight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:36 PM

con : more p2w!

-> no.

 

Back to old event that Mike talked about, i'd choose that event.


Edited by SoulSight, 02 October 2015 - 05:40 PM.

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#6 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:43 PM

con : more p2w!

-> no

 

Think about it soulsight. It may be pay to win but it's still pay to win even if it isn't there. You could potentially sell IM->Make gold->Buy capsules.Pay to win. You can skip the Sell IM and just Make gold->Buy Capsules. But there could be an alternative, better, easier method. This game is not pay to win, it's more like pay to speed things up faster. Everything in the item mall is obtainable by making gold and buying from a potential seller. And guess what? the seller buys stuff with gold in the market that people farmed, made and etc. Cycle of market continues, we will win and they will win.


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#7 SoulSight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:48 PM

It may be pay to win but it's still pay to win even if it isn't there. You could potentially sell IM->Make gold->Buy capsules.Pay to win. You can skip the Sell IM and just Make gold->Buy Capsules.

 

More p2w or not, Popcorn always wants less p2w.


Edited by SoulSight, 02 October 2015 - 05:48 PM.

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#8 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:52 PM

Ok. Then just from my experience, I would like my 40,000gold+ spent on capsules  to be worth my time and effort to get a decent amount of skill points. Free to play? I could have spent that "free to play gold earned" on skill points and probably got more. ;)


Edited by Agitodesu, 02 October 2015 - 05:52 PM.

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#9 StormHaven

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

Capsules have a 10% chance to drop capsules. You can get 10 capsules a day per character, so it's already easy to get at least at least 1sp free a day. Putting them into the IM in the past caused a big fit within the community because it means whales just got a tremendous advantage over the average players in now not only gearwise, but SP wise. The more easily classes such a Summoners/Fighters that have SP issues can get SP the less they lose the one disadvantage they have.
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#10 SoulSight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:58 PM

Long story short :

Hunter capsule used to be below 10g each until ***e***c* (censored) bought 25g each and the hunter capsule price was risen in months! Luckily I had +106 SP before the price was risen.

-> A very rich player made a change in economy.


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#11 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:16 PM

At level 85, A dragoon can max out the warrior and knight skill page to 5/5, they still have 2 other entire class to go.(Most people would not max everything out in general, but some people may want to.)

To max out all skills at level 5 takes 1816 extra skill points. 1 per day->1816 days->Aprox 5 years. 

You can indeed speed that process up, buy making gold and buying more. 

and that 10% chance is just an average. People may get more and some people could get little to nothing.

 

Assuming 10% chance and 20g each. To make it 100% you multiply by 10 and you get 200 gold for 1 SP. Now multiply that by 1816.

 

You get this number 363,200. Gold. Now if you want to level some skills to 10? don't even bother.

 

To this day I have not seen anyone game breaking with all this SP they have bought when this came out. I would love to see someone maxed out and say they spent 1k$ just to gain advantage.

 

And I assume the IM rate back then when the Points were out was 1:3 and it should be 63,425 IM

Call it pay to win, if someone spends that much money in the game. I would not even be mad to see someone spend over 500$ just to get skill points and lose to that person in whatever back then.

If this game is indeed wanting to end pay to win or pay to speed things up, might as well disband the entire Item mall and make an NPC sell things in the market at a set ratio.

Now I don't know if this is free to play or not, but I would prefer it to be slightly cheaper at least.

 

People can also pay to get skill points, and some people can make gold to buy them from people from the item mall. It is significantly cheaper. Either way,  instead of people spending money to sell IM for gold and use that in order to get skill points, You could skip the step of selling IM and go buy the skill points. If you want to make gold, sell it to those who also want skill points without gambling. 

 

But, the truth is only a perfectionist would want that. To me I want to max out my character.

 

 To others maybe skill points are useless. I guess preference is the factor. 


Edited by Agitodesu, 02 October 2015 - 06:26 PM.

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#12 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:29 PM

Regardless of pay to win or not. Skill points can be bought either way so it is obtainable for both players that spend money and those that do not.

 

It just does not have the gamble feature.


Edited by Agitodesu, 02 October 2015 - 06:29 PM.

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#13 SoulSight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:29 PM

Look! There must be another way.
1. Fix skill point required of skills. This game is full of imbalance. Some classes need a lot of SP and some class don't!
2. Fix skill point scroll at higher rate.
3. Event.
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#14 Agitodesu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:31 PM

The cheaper and easier alternative would be to put it up there in the item mall.

The event is lack luster as future players will be behind.

Fixing skill point rate can be done, but highly unlikely.


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#15 ManItsMike

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:35 PM

I wouldn't mind leveling wide heal to 10, and every time I try to buy capsules, another player always goes 1g higher. Of course that's the nature of a free market, but starting a bidding war isn't worth my time. Id much rather just buy SP in the item mall.
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#16 Sp4rkl3

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:37 PM

Or else we could increase the skill point scroll +1 to +2/3/4 and make it so it drop more often(and make it untradable.I don't remember if they're were tradable,too lazy to check) or make it more accessable by putting the scroll in the vending machine in exchange for silver coins.But i could also said that it could also be bounty reward aswell.

 

But yeah i agree with storm.

 

 


Edited by Sp4rkl3, 02 October 2015 - 06:53 PM.

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#17 Laburey21

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:14 PM

Skill points in the IM was requested some time ago and was denied. I wanted it myself back then, but after the skill-point event I don't think there's any need for it. I'm sure the skill-point event will be a recurring thing, maybe even twice per year. 

 

You can get 10 capsules a day per character, so it's already easy to get at least at least 1sp free a day. Putting them into the IM in the past caused a big fit within the community because it means whales just got a tremendous advantage over the average players in now not only gearwise, but SP wise.

 

I think Mr. Scary-Wolf-Person is 100% right as usual. Hunter G quests seem really underrated, they give good exp too. They are tedious at some level ranges like in Drakos, but mostly worthwhile. You can pair them up with Guild and Wanted quests too and get a lot of work done in relatively little time.

 

At level 85, A dragoon can max out the warrior and knight skill page to 5/5, they still have 2 other entire class to go.(Most people would not max everything out in general, but some people may want to.)

 

It was never intended that a character should be able to fill up their skill tree completely. If everyone could have all skills, it would remove a lot of diversity. I think it's good that characters of the same class are forced to make choices and might end up with very different skill setups. And having skills at level 10 is supposed to be rare imo. It should take some work in gathering cards and points.

 

All-in-all I think with Hunter G quests, a recurring skill-point event, and the other event gacha boxes than can give skill points, it should be enough.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Laburey21, 03 October 2015 - 07:09 AM.

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#18 Popcorn

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:27 AM

Skill points in the IM was requested some time ago and was denied. I wanted it myself back then, but after the skill-point event I don't think there's any need for it. I'm sure the skill-point event will be a recurring thing, maybe even twice per year. 

 

We actually already have been discussing about the return of the small skill-point event. :)

 

 

I think Mr. Scary-Wolf-Person is 100% right as usual. Hunter G quests seem really underrated, they give good exp too. They are tedious at some level ranges like in Drakos, but mostly worthwhile. You can pair them up with Guild and Wanted quests too and get a lot of work done in relatively little time.

 

I agree that they're not really interesting at the higher level ranges - but as I said in another topic - we will work on them in the future. This is also a tedious work and will be done step by step.

 

 

 

It was never intended that a character should be able to fill upp their skill tree completely. (...) I think it's good that characters of the same class are forced to make choices and might end up with very different skill setups. And having skills at level 10 is supposed to be rare imo. 

 

I 100% agree to this statement.

 

 

As for the devaluating statement: I myself can definitely confirm that selling points in the IM devaluates the Hunter G. Capsule prices. When I started playing here, I was able to sell them for only 6g/ea at max. Often even less. This was at the beginning 2014 and when the player base started to grow the price increased. Why? Because the "new" players needed them. But what do you think will happen if they can be bought in the IM? The price for the Hunter G. capsules will decrease (and this is one of the income sources for low level players), the number of scammed and unhappy players will increase and the Pay-2-Win feeling definitely increases again and this is definitely not wanted. 

 

Yes, they have been sold in the IM in the past. But only because something happened in the past it does not make it right. We also don't give out numerous free Bloody Crystals again just because it has been done in the past.

 

Sorry that I have to disappoint you, but our decision regarding IM sold Skill Points still stays the same.

 

ManItsMike, if you want to share my answer to you regarding this feel free to, but I think I basically said the same in this post now.


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#19 Agitodesu

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:48 AM

Lock topic. I have given up on life. May the random number god bless me with skill points in the future. :chomok02:


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#20 ManItsMike

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:52 AM

*removed* my apologies!

Edited by ManItsMike, 03 October 2015 - 01:54 AM.

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#21 ManItsMike

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:54 AM

Looks like it has been covered. Thanks! *tips heirloom hookah hat* even though as an IM purchaser/seller, I'm disappointed in the decision, the reasoning is very sound.

Edit: double posted. Poppy would be proud! ;D
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#22 SoulSight

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 03:12 AM

So we need an event then.
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#23 Fliederduft78

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 03:19 AM

We actually already have been discussing about the return of the small skill-point event. :)

 

 

So I guess a skill point event of any sort is very possible in the near future.

Thanks Poppie. :p_smile:


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#24 SoulSight

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:38 PM

I have thought again about this

- People desire hunter capsule BECAUSE OF skill point scroll, not the stuffs!

- The higher level the harder to do and higher price hunter capsule is but same rate to get scroll.

-> People who sell high level hunter capsule are likely have to sell it expensive to deserve their work but for the buyers, it's too expensive and same rate, they still think of buying cheap hunter capsule (of course, the low level one which starts from level 24 is easiest to get).

==> Conclusion : Why don't we change the rate drop (or drop rate whatever my English is broken) of the scroll depending on the level of hunter capsule? This will make "equal and fair" price and quality. High level hunter capsule should give the scroll at higher rate than low level hunter capsule.


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#25 Laburey21

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 08:40 PM

I have thought again about this

- People desire hunter capsule BECAUSE OF skill point scroll, not the stuffs!

- The higher level the harder to do and higher price hunter capsule is but same rate to get scroll.

-> People who sell high level hunter capsule are likely have to sell it expensive to deserve their work but for the buyers, it's too expensive and same rate, they still think of buying cheap hunter capsule (of course, the low level one which starts from level 24 is easiest to get).

==> Conclusion : Why don't we change the rate drop (or drop rate whatever my English is broken) of the scroll depending on the level of hunter capsule? This will make "equal and fair" price and quality. High level hunter capsule should give the scroll at higher rate than low level hunter capsule.

 

I usually tolerate you but now even I have to say that you're posting just to post. I was going to comment on your idea, but I couldn't find anything correct about it at all so I have to conclude that you have very little experience with Hunter G quests.  :p_swt:

 

Maybe Agito was right and it's time to lock this thread. The main issue has been decided already.


Edited by Laburey21, 03 October 2015 - 08:43 PM.

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