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#1 BloodyHalo

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 04:53 PM

This is just a little of what We have been discussing about new skills for commander.  This does NOT mean these are getting implemented, or that these are the only ones that MAY get implemented.  These are just what I have been directly proposed with/talked about there.  I feel like I need to reiterate this.  These are PROPOSED skills.  Which means someone came up with them, I told them why they may or may not work or what should be changed to make them better or work, and they may or may not be implemented

 

 I have suggested many other things/skills and responses to these, so if you feel the urge to "wtf why haven't you told them blah blah", don't because chances are I already have.  You can still make suggestions and add your own skills and I will bring them up if they are legit.

 

* I removed mana cost stats because nobody cares.

 

* Forgot one skill passive 2h Mastery

 

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Swift Wind

 

Swiftness guides your blade.

Temporarily increase the Commander's Attack Speed and Movement Speed.

Cool Down: All Levels 65 Seconds
Duration: All Levels 60 Seconds

Level 1: - 0.1 attack speed and +1% Movement Speed.
Level 2: - 0.2 attack speed and +2% Movement Speed.
Level 3: - 0.3 attack speed and +3% Movement Speed.
Level 4: - 0.4 attack speed and +4% Movement Speed.
Level 5: - 0.5 attack speed and +5% Movement Speed.
Level 6: - 0.6 attack speed and +6% Movement Speed.
Level 7: - 0.7 attack speed and +7% Movement Speed.
Level 8: - 0.8 attack speed and +8% Movement Speed.
Level 9: - 0.9 attack speed and +9% Movement Speed.
Level 10: -1.0 attack speed and +10% Movement Speed.

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Suppression

 

Forcefully strike the target with your Two-Handed Weapon to confuse it and inflict great damage.

Cool Down: All Levels 14.4 Seconds

Stun Duration:

Level 1: 1 Second
Level 2: 1 Second
Level 3: 2 Second
Level 4: 2 Second
Level 5: 3 Second
Level 6: 3 Second
Level 7: 3 Second
Level 8: 3 Second
Level 9: 3 Second
Level 10: 3 Second

 

Damage:

Level 1: 95
Level 2: 108
Level 3: 119
Level 4: 133
Level 5: 148
Level 6: 165
Level 7: 184
Level 8: 202
Level 9: 230
Level 10: 262

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Shatter Star

 

Perform a rapid series of attacks with your two handed weapon to inflict devastating damage and bleeds the target. On a successful hit, the Commander gains Expertise.

Cool Down: All Levels 20 Seconds

Bleed Duration: 6 seconds   (Yes, I have already told them about bleed = poop)

Initial Damage:

Level 1: 130
Level 2: 142
Level 3: 155
Level 4: 169
Level 5: 184
Level 6: 200
Level 7: 218
Level 8: 238
Level 9: 259
Level 10: 283

Bleed Damage:

Level 1: 100 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 2: 126 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 3: 154 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 4: 169 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 5: 184 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 6: 200 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 7: 218 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 8: 238 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 9: 259 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Level 10: 283 every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.

 

 

New Skill: Toughness

 

Extensive training in the fields of battle has hardened the Commander.

(Passive)

Level 1: Max HP: +1% Defense: +1%
Level 2: Max HP: +2% Defense: +2%
Level 3: Max HP: +3% Defense: +3%
Level 4: Max HP: +4% Defense: +4%
Level 5: Max HP: +5% Defense: +5%
Level 6: Max HP: +6% Defense: +6%
Level 7: Max HP: +7% Defense: +7%
Level 8: Max HP: +8% Defense: +8%
Level 9: Max HP: +9% Defense: +9%
Level 10: Max HP: +10% Defense: +10%

 

Expertise 

- When a Commander gains Expertise, they gain a heightened sense of awareness increasing their chances of critical strike.

Duration: 6 Seconds   (Yes, I am aware, and have made them aware, that most people endgame have 100% scc already or near it.)

 

Level 1: +5% to Critical Chance
Level 2: +10% to Critical Chance
Level 3: +15% to Critical Chance
Level 4: +20% to Critical Chance
Level 5: +25% to Critical Chance
Level 6: +30% to Critical Chance
Level 7: +35% to Critical Chance
Level 8: +40% to Critical Chance
Level 9: +45% to Critical Chance
Level 10: +50% to Critical Chance

 

EDIT *

 

New Skill: Two Handed Weapon Mastery

 

Hone your skills in wielding Two-Handed Weapons to permanently increase your Attack Power when using them.

(Passive)

Level 1: Physical Attack Strength: +35 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 2: Physical Attack Strength: +40 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 3: Physical Attack Strength: +44 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 4: Physical Attack Strength: +50 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 5: Physical Attack Strength: +56 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 6: Physical Attack Strength: +62 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 7: Physical Attack Strength: +69 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 8: Physical Attack Strength: +76 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 9: Physical Attack Strength: +83 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe
Level 10: Physical Attack Strength: +91 Weapon: Sword/Bludgeon/Axe


Edited by BloodyHalo, 21 October 2015 - 06:44 AM.

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#2 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 20 October 2015 - 08:46 PM

OK, I will just write a few comments on them, for starters.

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Swift Wind : This overall looks quite decent and something worth investing skill points into.

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Suppression : Hmm, not sure really... First of all why would you want a 2-hander, I have always been against them. Even so, nothing to write home about. "Confuse it" meaning? Some kind of stun or fear effect? As for the added damage looks anything but "great" to me, even at max level...

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Shatter Star : Too long cool down. Too little damage overall (just like the Suppression above). Bleed effect for just 6 seconds? Even if this one has (slightly) increased DoT values, means next to nothing, no one is going to even bat an eyelid. Again used with a 2-hander... Is that supposed to kinda replace Moonlight or Moonlight can be used too? If so, Moonlight does it better already and can be "spammed" better, and if you really wanted a DoT effect for some reason, Moonlight is the way to go.

 

New Skill: Toughness : OK... Now, the % HP part is always welcome, sure. Although 10% at max isn't exactly a spectacular increase, but every little bit helps. However, the +% defense part is totally irrelevant. Well, not when we are talking about high levels and "end game". I guess not even earlier in the game. With Plate and the other Def increasing skills you already have more than enough. If you got 5k Def, what another 500 is going to do for you? *About this particular issue I will comment further below*

 

Expertise : Looks awesome. But is NOT. Unfortunately, unless they have not yet realised, we are NOT in S1, hell we are not even in 2012-13. Because as far as I can remember, around that time, 2012-2013, people first started sporting "capped" crit rates of 100% (and beyond). It doesn't take an educated guess to assume how it is these days. So, I am afraid, in the end, an irrelevant skill. I would also assume it increases both physical and skill %, right?

 

 

Which now brings me to the "further comments". Taking as examples "Toughness" and "Expertise" is an excellent way to demonstrate all that is wrong with Requiem today, and the way of designing "new" stuff, or "improving" on old(er) stuff.

 

For the zillionth time, my personal little request is this: I would like the "team" to hold on for just a little, and THINK. They are trying to build on quicksand. STILL not looking into the bloody GOD FORSAKEN and OUTDATED fundamental values of the "game system", which has become irrelevant and obsolete through years of misjudgement and neglect.

 

Are we serious? Trying to ADD effects like MORE Defense and crit % to the already long, long maxed and capped values? To do exactly what? We are always talking about the "end game" all right? Not Turba, jeez.

 

Will anyone, *ANYONE*, at long last, sit down and LOOK at their meh tables with VALUES for all that stuff? Then perhaps have a LOOK at what PLAYERS actually use in-game? What gear they have, what (immensely idiotic, but OK, another topic of discussion) "enhancements" and "enchants" this gear sports? Is it that very HARD to correlate the REALITY with "system". Does it take 100 Einsteins to see that the "system" has become totally irrelevant because REALITY has long left it behind?

 

All those jolly good suggestions and plans, and I am sure there would be 100s more, for all other classes as well... suffer from one single problem. They can do jack crap little on top of an already broken and outdated "fundamental system". If you want to give someone a Def buff or boost their crit %, would be oh so very nice, if their ACTUAL numbers were BELOW the FOOKIN "caps". Sure, if I had 50 or 60% crit rate... And you know? I actually DO have. This is what I had when I stopped, it was my personal choice as a "hybrid" and I had neither of the 2 maxed (though I could easily). See, in THAT case that skill could mean something. But hey... That was 2012, OK? And even back then as I said, you COULD have 100% and beyond.

 

All right, you may argue, "shove off stupid mallwh*re", because, yeah, the "newbie" would not have those values maxed and so uber... Really... With +70% froge evenies left and right and one metric ton of other "events", you really have to try HARD even as a "newvbie" not to get your gear sorted, what the heck, how could you do it so wrong? Even the mentally challenged would eventually learn, and MAKE their gear. Make it good enough to at least reach the "caps" if not go beyond them.

 

So, these suggestions and skills, do not go to help the "newbies" really, do they? Or they would help make the "mallwh"res" even more uber and perfect?

 

As long as you have a "system" where ANYONE can MAX it, then there is no point after that, it is MAXED. Add more to the max? Brilliant idea... Break even more the broken. Or feed idiotic e-peens?

 

I will say it again. What I personally ask is a "system" where NO ONE can MAX and go over that. That way there is always room for something more, there could be some kind of "balance". I don't care how you do it. Do it like a toddler would. Take the god damn "Def cap" from 3000 or what the fook it is, give it a good kick in the nuts and send it to 10000, 20000, what the bloody hell you like. Take the 100-150% crit % we have now (rofl) and cut them in half, cut them to 1/3rd. So what? The e-peens will CRY? They would still be better than the next poor peasant. Likewise with (S)CAD. Likewise with resistances. And so on.

 

Yeah a really simplistic and a "toddler's" way to do it. Yet far better than the complete heap of smelly cowpoop we have right now.

 

And if they start thinking this way, and make the first move, then maybe, just maybe, the "team" will finally realise that what you ADD into the game, gear-wise and skill-wise, should not go and BREAK it beyond repair. Maybe just maybe then, it will start to have some meaning and relevance, and sure, you go out there and hunt for your shinnies and uh-oh that "legendary" item, fair enough, but F-F-S, even the "legendaries" should not put someone into "god mode" or go beyond the max.

 

This is the way I see things, maybe I am just the lunatic in the village, but meh, if Requiem has much reason and sense in it anymore now.


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#3 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:09 AM

I'm sorry but I disagree with all the skills.
I don't really find use for them
Swift wind is just a replacement for quick attack. Fix quick attack, move it to commie tree and add move speed. Except aa commies are a joke.
Suppression is just no. Commie shouldn't be using 2 hand weapon. They should be shield and sword. Also this class doesn't need another stun as long as fs lasts for 23 seconds.
Shatter star. Useless, if you want that expertise thing give it to a skill already existing. Don't add yet another skill that's useless past lvl 1.
Toughness. Half of it is useless. And 10%hp is a joke. 10% defense is useless. I'm willing to let a clean 10% dmg reduction slide though.
Expertise, just no. Duration is useless, skill is useless. Every player can get 100 scc with ease. Hell my prot runs 110 by accident. And no its not mnd stacked or has one of the mdc high scc items.

All in all, this was a very poor attempt mate.
1/10
Wouldn't bang if my life depended on it.

Edited by NorrinRadd, 21 October 2015 - 05:10 AM.

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#4 ARKILIUS

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 05:48 AM

tks for your work as representant bloody , but i must admit i share mostly the same opinion. I would tempere my judgment comparing to Norrin and Nin, but still :

 

i think too that AA toons are now joke , since ever because you have to keep your foe close and somehow "stunned" to hit , and more recently because never going down MP make SS far more powerful. Meaning , because of that , two of theses new skills being useless : expertise and swift wind.

 

for expertise for theses reasons , adding scc instead of pcc could have been meaning , but not even , cause yeah even newbies can reach easily enough 75 - 80 % scc now. making a boost of 50% at lvl 10 useless , even if , yes , we all use some buff by smart choices without maxing thme at lvl 10. In this sense it could be a decent booster if you make a new toon considering you will neglect enchant bringing SCC cause you know you will use the buff booster instead. that would turn the class naturally "stronger" like for mystic and druid buffs scc/pcc %  . But for us , i would mean too re-enchant all our gears again. Can sound legit why not , but , sorry for my parano , it still feel like a will for "scam" actually into my eyes , even if i can be wrong of course.

 

Swif wind speed up why not , but then merge that with or boost uplifting cry , no ? why two skill for same purpose ?

 

toughness , a bit like meaned Nin for what i understood suffer of the same actual syndrome of these "fundamental system" ( aka each class turning in "god mode" , beyond max etc w/e) but eh can't help i suppose , i don't think workers on ReQQ will be able to propose something else i suppose . so yeah , why not , Hp boost could be decent and def is not really needed , but again , could replace def gained from gears/enchants so you will make differents choices for enchanting. why not . And yes , i know you can easliy max def just with last released gears +30'ed and with 0 enchant. But i don't consider cap def purely in itself. I consider the chance to keep it beyond max even debuffed in def by all what can have that effect , so yeah it could remain an helping buff.

 

I am not really in the style for two handed weapon , even if i tried that style myself , and see some players having their fun with that style of game play during all theses years. Tho , i don't think it's a cool idea , AS we said months ago in others posts , shield should be OUR exclusivity and shall be of even better use , actually only four skills rely on it ( two defensive for prot , one control for commie and one control for defender as we all know ) i would like more to see skill that make shield even more meaning and specify our classes ( and as we said , in the same time make shield something really exclusive to us , even if we keep the idea that others classes could use some too.)

 

and to end yeah , anyway theses two handed attack skills lack of power. damage scale seems poor and DoT duration pitiful.

 

I hope our opinion will help , keep up the good work :no1:


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#5 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:18 AM

Ark has a point about shield exclusive skills.
I wouldn't mind seeing more of them.

As for the comment about maxing defense even when debuffed, well, that's actually quite hard.
Assuming we run 3.8 as cap for lvl 90
Need to counter srdd5 750
Then you have venger debuff of about 600
Then there's wl debuff of 45%?
So you need about 9k defense lol.
Reasonably speaking that's quite insane.
Hence why 10% in my opinion is quite useless.
My prot without buffs and using some 85 gear has 4k defense. That's 10% really doesn't do that much. So 4.4k defense? Guess I can counter srdd5 with that lol.
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#6 ARKILIUS

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:26 AM

Ark has a point about shield exclusive skills.
I wouldn't mind seeing more of them.

As for the comment about maxing defense even when debuffed, well, that's actually quite hard.
Assuming we run 3.8 as cap for lvl 90
Need to counter srdd5 750
Then you have venger debuff of about 600
Then there's wl debuff of 45%?
So you need about 9k defense lol.
Reasonably speaking that's quite insane.
Hence why 10% in my opinion is quite useless.
My prot without buffs and using some 85 gear has 4k defense. That's 10% really doesn't do that much. So 4.4k defense? Guess I can counter srdd5 with that lol.

 

of course , to be honest , i don't even focused so much about def. i prefer block. But usually i consider still def like an added help. So yeah , again , why not , would not be an OP or really useful skill that "toughness" . But could still be an help for many tankers in sense where the situation where all def debuffers classes focus on you at same time doesn't happen so often still :p_smile:

in other words , you are right , wouldn't change much , but considering the listed skills we had here , it's the "less bad" of all. yeah , not good in itself , just good because being the most "legit looking" in all the list. I was trying to be positive :heh:

 

and thanks for supporting the idea of exclusive shield skills , i really think it should be a way for our "research" :no1:

 

edit :

 

lol was just thinking about a "captain america shield like" for commies. that could act like a "scorpion attack" that Bloody was proposing. Yeah physic mechanic don't seem really realistic in my vision , but could be fun tho. W/E it would be too technically complicated for them i think  :p_laugh:


Edited by ARKILIUS, 21 October 2015 - 06:29 AM.

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#7 BloodyHalo

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:17 AM

Wonderful Feedback, now I can input what I have told them myself already (Unfortunately, I cannot just say "All of these are pointless skills ((although initially I did to the originally proposed skills)) work on the core mechanics of the classes/game ((even though I did)) because skills are not the issue").  

 

Swift Wind -  (original)

 

Temporarily increase your Attack Speed.

Cool Down: All Levels 65 Seconds
Duration: All Levels 60 Seconds

Level 1: - 0.1 attack speed
Level 2: - 0.2 attack speed
Level 3: - 0.3 attack speed
Level 4: - 0.4 attack speed
Level 5: - 0.5 attack speed
Level 6: - 0.6 attack speed
Level 7: - 0.7 attack speed
Level 8: - 0.8 attack speed
Level 9: - 0.9 attack speed
Level 10: -1.0 attack speed

Originally it was an absolute copy of Quick attack just used to make us a worse form of an AA zerk with a 2h.  I said that this would just be a feeder skill as is quick attack to ward off Soccer Kick.  The new version I said shoudl replace the uplifting cry, but instead of making attack speed it should increase something like animation speed/reduce cooldown something of this nature, so that the commie class, which is SS, could benefit from it.

 

Suppression -  

 

I said it needed to be an aoe that scattered people (maybe this in place of the mass Face Strike).  Doesn't do much good if you stun one person nowadays and the other 5 people 1 shot you.  Kind of like the opposite of the WL skill.  It also needs to be able to be used with sword/shield because no matter how you cut it a 2h commy = a dead freaking tard, in pvp at least.

 

 

Shatter Star -

 

Perform a rapid series of attacks with your two handed weapon to inflict devastating damage and bleeds the target. On a successful hit, the Commander gains Expertise.

Notice: I left out this little bit of description in the op.  I apologize.

I will admit kind of rage spammed because this was one of the first skills I discussed.  And told them that this is the EXACT same thing as nub vital stab, the EXACT same thing as Boomerang Aura, the EXACT SAME THING AS MOONLIGHT FREAKING SLASH.  

So they went back and added Expertise to it to make it interesting.  

I however said that SCC is pointless due to the already discussed reasons, and said that this should be the skill that either pushes casters out of their camping aoe spots, or pulls them in like the Mortal combat Scorpion skill (Or the protector could get this skill or it could be put on the defender tree don't matter don't care)

 

Toughness - 

 

Eh,  I mean great, more hp.  But lets say you give me an extra 10% hp, that's just one, maybe two hits from a modern caster.  The problem is not the hp, we could have 70khp (Which I have tested with even before mdc gear came out) and still die hella fast, so the issue is not the hp, though I will NOT say do not give me more when the average zerk makes my hp look like a kiddie pool.

 

Expertise -

 

Read this wrong the first time I went over it and thought it meant scad.  So at first I said everyone would QQ at how op we were for 6 seconds, and then I re-read and saw scc.  So pointless, utterly pointless in the current age where everyone has well over 100% once they start putting on real gear.

 

2H Weapon Mastery -

 

This I dont even know about.  Great?  I mean we didn't even put many points into the first mastery at first because it wasn't that crucial.  Alteris said he wanted to make a DMG branch tree for Commanders that did not want to be off tanks.  But, I mean, that would take so much more to implement if we are going to rep 2h as a primary weapon.  Making sure the weapons do the stuns, or we will be dead in mere seconds.  Making sure block is still taken into account or we will die within seconds.  So much that would have to be done before I could even consider this skill tbh.  Hurts my brain.

 

 


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#8 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:35 AM

Oh god. Ok do me a favor and kill that retarded 2 hand idea Alteris or helium has. If you want 2 hand weapon play, you go zerk or wl.
Commander is shield and 1hander. Discussion over.
With that, the whole idea of swift wind goes out the window. I like that you added move speed but it doesn't make that a skill worth investing 10 points into.
I maybe would be interested in seeing it changed into a 20 second skull which reduces Cooldown of all skills by 20% and also gives the run bonus. Maybe that would be useful. AM would be an exception.
I like your idea of suppression as long as it's NOT for 2h weapon. An aoe cc skill sounds legit.
Yeah no shatter star is a no go. Don't care what stupid spin they toss on it, it's a strict no go.
Well like I said with regards to toughness, 10% is not enough and 10% defense is bleh. Make it 20% hp and 10% flat dmg reduction. That is worth investing. I can maybe let it slide if this was 20% resistance and 20% defense as well. MAYBE.
Yeah expertise is just useless. And I don't know how to make it less useless without making it op. I don't want it to add scad, I think that's too much.
Lol follow in Alteris path and make it give % leach on hit lol. Kidding.
2h mastery shouldn't even be a discussion. This is a class meant to use a shield.
I would love to know what games Alteris and helium have played to want to mix class roles.

Commander is a shield and 1h weapon toon.
Zerk and wl are 2h weapon toons. They shouldn't be using shield or duals btw. Would love for you to remove that silly crap.
Also remove zerk heals. They aren't rads or prots or casters
Tralala stupid suggestions are stupid.


Ps
Reps will get ignored and helium and Alteris will add in the absolutely ridiculous skills they think of. I come from the future. Game makes no sense at all
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#9 BloodyHalo

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:37 AM

OK, I will just write a few comments on them, for starters.

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Swift Wind : This overall looks quite decent and something worth investing skill points into.  

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Suppression : Hmm, not sure really... First of all why would you want a 2-hander, I have always been against them. Even so, nothing to write home about. "Confuse it" meaning? Some kind of stun or fear effect? As for the added damage looks anything but "great" to me, even at max level...

 

New Skill: Blade Arts - Shatter Star : Too long cool down. Too little damage overall (just like the Suppression above). Bleed effect for just 6 seconds? Even if this one has (slightly) increased DoT values, means next to nothing, no one is going to even bat an eyelid. Again used with a 2-hander... Is that supposed to kinda replace Moonlight or Moonlight can be used too? If so, Moonlight does it better already and can be "spammed" better, and if you really wanted a DoT effect for some reason, Moonlight is the way to go.

 

New Skill: Toughness : OK... Now, the % HP part is always welcome, sure. Although 10% at max isn't exactly a spectacular increase, but every little bit helps. However, the +% defense part is totally irrelevant. Well, not when we are talking about high levels and "end game". I guess not even earlier in the game. With Plate and the other Def increasing skills you already have more than enough. If you got 5k Def, what another 500 is going to do for you? *About this particular issue I will comment further below*

 

Expertise : Looks awesome. But is NOT. Unfortunately, unless they have not yet realised, we are NOT in S1, hell we are not even in 2012-13. Because as far as I can remember, around that time, 2012-2013, people first started sporting "capped" crit rates of 100% (and beyond). It doesn't take an educated guess to assume how it is these days. So, I am afraid, in the end, an irrelevant skill. I would also assume it increases both physical and skill %, right?

 

 

 

 

My fault not clarifying that Alteris wanted to make a DMG option for a commander.  This is why the 2h option skills have been shown.  But as said unless other skills are made for the 2h to use, it would be pointless.  

 

I also told them if we're to be considered any sort of dps we need a skill that actually gives DPS.

 

Honestly I did not even take into account the defense in Toughness because defense = absolutely nothing when everyone in the game has it and the cap is still the same.

 

I've known for years that the problem of the game is not the skills, but unfortunately I can only push a few things that actually matter. One issue is the bludgeons never being fixed since, well, ever. Another more important thing would be the ratio of tank defenses to caster/heavy melee DPS.  The damage output crushes our hp/def/res/block and it is a core problem of how the game is being designed and not an issue of skills.  I have tried to hit Helium/Mods on this every chance I get so hopefully it will get noticed soon.

 

But keep up the wall of text, I always read every word from the suggestions here even if my eyes bleed before going back and suggesting things to them.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with all the skills.
I don't really find use for them
Swift wind is just a replacement for quick attack. Fix quick attack, move it to commie tree and add move speed. Except aa commies are a joke.
Suppression is just no. Commie shouldn't be using 2 hand weapon. They should be shield and sword. Also this class doesn't need another stun as long as fs lasts for 23 seconds.
Shatter star. Useless, if you want that expertise thing give it to a skill already existing. Don't add yet another skill that's useless past lvl 1.
Toughness. Half of it is useless. And 10%hp is a joke. 10% defense is useless. I'm willing to let a clean 10% dmg reduction slide though.
Expertise, just no. Duration is useless, skill is useless. Every player can get 100 scc with ease. Hell my prot runs 110 by accident. And no its not mnd stacked or has one of the mdc high scc items.

All in all, this was a very poor attempt mate.
1/10
Wouldn't bang if my life depended on it.

 

Hand to God this was my very initial response when I 1st saw these skills.  Almost word for word on trello before I edited.  Lol, not much else to say I could have almost copy and pasted your response into mine.

 

tks for your work as representant bloody , but i must admit i share mostly the same opinion. I would tempere my judgment comparing to Norrin and Nin, but still :

 

i think too that AA toons are now joke , since ever because you have to keep your foe close and somehow "stunned" to hit , and more recently because never going down MP make SS far more powerful. Meaning , because of that , two of theses new skills being useless : expertise and swift wind.

 

for expertise for theses reasons , adding scc instead of pcc could have been meaning , but not even , cause yeah even newbies can reach easily enough 75 - 80 % scc now. making a boost of 50% at lvl 10 useless , even if , yes , we all use some buff by smart choices without maxing thme at lvl 10. In this sense it could be a decent booster if you make a new toon considering you will neglect enchant bringing SCC cause you know you will use the buff booster instead. that would turn the class naturally "stronger" like for mystic and druid buffs scc/pcc %  . But for us , i would mean too re-enchant all our gears again. Can sound legit why not , but , sorry for my parano , it still feel like a will for "scam" actually into my eyes , even if i can be wrong of course.

 

Swif wind speed up why not , but then merge that with or boost uplifting cry , no ? why two skill for same purpose ?

 

toughness , a bit like meaned Nin for what i understood suffer of the same actual syndrome of these "fundamental system" ( aka each class turning in "god mode" , beyond max etc w/e) but eh can't help i suppose , i don't think workers on ReQQ will be able to propose something else i suppose . so yeah , why not , Hp boost could be decent and def is not really needed , but again , could replace def gained from gears/enchants so you will make differents choices for enchanting. why not . And yes , i know you can easliy max def just with last released gears +30'ed and with 0 enchant. But i don't consider cap def purely in itself. I consider the chance to keep it beyond max even debuffed in def by all what can have that effect , so yeah it could remain an helping buff.

 

I am not really in the style for two handed weapon , even if i tried that style myself , and see some players having their fun with that style of game play during all theses years. Tho , i don't think it's a cool idea , AS we said months ago in others posts , shield should be OUR exclusivity and shall be of even better use , actually only four skills rely on it ( two defensive for prot , one control for commie and one control for defender as we all know ) i would like more to see skill that make shield even more meaning and specify our classes ( and as we said , in the same time make shield something really exclusive to us , even if we keep the idea that others classes could use some too.)

 

and to end yeah , anyway theses two handed attack skills lack of power. damage scale seems poor and DoT duration pitiful.

 

I hope our opinion will help , keep up the good work :no1:

 

 

Thanks Ark, I keep battling the "commie AA is great" issue, one of the main arguments being that AA commies would do great on bosses.  I mean great but why build a commie just to afk upon a boss.  Yay but not yay I guess. Also people seem to forget that AA IS SINGLE TARGET.  Go ask a zerk how well he grinds!

 

 

A few other points I think I should add:

 

1)  I opted for lowering the duration of Face Strike as long as we have other survivable options.

 

2)  Might be stupid, might be the worst idea ever and probably is.  But dammit I want a goddamn bow or spear to play with for ranged attacks.  I don't care if its not that strong, I just want my goddamn pew pew.

 

3)  AM needs to avoid the op slows or sins need their op slows lowered (along with any other class with an op slow).  Doesn't do much good to have an anti-stun skill if you can just be kited.  Also, it needs to either be soccer kick resistant or something so that when a team has a gazzilion sins you aren't just a no-heal protector with less block less survivability and less skittles.  

 

It also needs to resist lith, because it is being exploited where you can be lithed for a minute and then instant Terms of Service'd.


Edited by BloodyHalo, 21 October 2015 - 07:52 AM.

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#10 BloodyHalo

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:46 AM

Oh god. Ok do me a favor and kill that retarded 2 hand idea Alteris or helium has. If you want 2 hand weapon play, you go zerk or wl.
Commander is shield and 1hander. Discussion over.
With that, the whole idea of swift wind goes out the window. I like that you added move speed but it doesn't make that a skill worth investing 10 points into.
I maybe would be interested in seeing it changed into a 20 second skull which reduces Cooldown of all skills by 20% and also gives the run bonus. Maybe that would be useful. AM would be an exception.
I like your idea of suppression as long as it's NOT for 2h weapon. An aoe cc skill sounds legit.
Yeah no shatter star is a no go. Don't care what stupid spin they toss on it, it's a strict no go.
Well like I said with regards to toughness, 10% is not enough and 10% defense is bleh. Make it 20% hp and 10% flat dmg reduction. That is worth investing. I can maybe let it slide if this was 20% resistance and 20% defense as well. MAYBE.
Yeah expertise is just useless. And I don't know how to make it less useless without making it op. I don't want it to add scad, I think that's too much.
Lol follow in Alteris path and make it give % leach on hit lol. Kidding.
2h mastery shouldn't even be a discussion. This is a class meant to use a shield.
I would love to know what games Alteris and helium have played to want to mix class roles.

Commander is a shield and 1h weapon toon.
Zerk and wl are 2h weapon toons. They shouldn't be using shield or duals btw. Would love for you to remove that silly crap.
Also remove zerk heals. They aren't rads or prots or casters
Tralala stupid suggestions are stupid.


Ps
Reps will get ignored and helium and Alteris will add in the absolutely ridiculous skills they think of. I come from the future. Game makes no sense at all

 

 

Swift wind I told them should replace uplifting cry, not be a new skill at all. The 2h I think is a way that they are trying to get Commies to be more mobile and deadly instead of just fixing AM, adjusting damage skills, or adding some sort of ranged option.  I don't really know, but I sure would like another weapon option besides shield sword.  Like an axe, or throwable spear, or SOMETHING that works xD


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#11 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:57 AM

oh no no don't get me wrong

I don't think it should be ONLY shield and sword

im absolutely down for actually having a use for the axe and bludgeon.

 

commander is mobile though, changing it to 2h makes it less mobile. and sure maybe more deadly but then squishy. nah. this is wrong.

 

hmm replace uplifting? idk I kind of like that its a party buff. well, I would love to see this idea in action before actually voting on it.

 

I really think pushing for more shield based skills is a good idea

maybe even shield + bludgeon skills.

idk, something about commander banging his bludgeon on his shield and enemies around him fainting?

or, if they really want to have commander have multiple skill lines, have players specialize in which weapon they want

so have 3 skills for each weapon + another 4 skills for shield

anywho, considering any skills I suggest will be ignored anyways, I wont suggest anything for ^ that

I will however shoot down all of those silly silly ideas

 

 

 

ps

not like it matters anyway lol.


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#12 BloodyHalo

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:05 AM

oh no no don't get me wrong

I don't think it should be ONLY shield and sword

im absolutely down for actually having a use for the axe and bludgeon.

 

commander is mobile though, changing it to 2h makes it less mobile. and sure maybe more deadly but then squishy. nah. this is wrong.

 

hmm replace uplifting? idk I kind of like that its a party buff. well, I would love to see this idea in action before actually voting on it.

 

I really think pushing for more shield based skills is a good idea

maybe even shield + bludgeon skills.

idk, something about commander banging his bludgeon on his shield and enemies around him fainting?

or, if they really want to have commander have multiple skill lines, have players specialize in which weapon they want

so have 3 skills for each weapon + another 4 skills for shield

anywho, considering any skills I suggest will be ignored anyways, I wont suggest anything for ^ that

I will however shoot down all of those silly silly ideas

 

 

 

ps

not like it matters anyway lol.

 

I did tell them the sword/shield combo should have the new skill advantages too so hopefully they will listen to that.

 

Yep said the same thing about the 2h, that's why I said unless they make 2h give as much block as shields it would be pointless.  But then that would be unfair and not make sense.  To much work they would have to do for something that really isnt that important.

 

I really need to expand on my explanations more Lol I don't do a good job of that.  With Uplifting Cry I like the speed part to stay for everyone but to give us the personal Action Speed buff (If they want to buff the attk speed of something and are set on doing that, which it is starting to look like they want to).  In other words, not create an entirely new copy paste skill that is a combo of QA/Uplifting Cry.  I can think of a thousand things more useful.


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#13 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:23 AM

I did tell them the sword/shield combo should have the new skill advantages too so hopefully they will listen to that.

 

Yes, please hopefully. (doubtful)

 

Yep said the same thing about the 2h, that's why I said unless they make 2h give as much block as shields it would be pointless.  But then that would be unfair and not make sense.  To much work they would have to do for something that really isnt that important.

 

Last time I checked, Helium and Alteris love to work on things that aren't important. So, gg we screwed.

 

I really need to expand on my explanations more Lol I don't do a good job of that.  With Uplifting Cry I like the speed part to stay for everyone but to give us the personal Action Speed buff (If they want to buff the attk speed of something and are set on doing that, which it is starting to look like they want to).  In other words, not create an entirely new copy paste skill that is a combo of QA/Uplifting Cry.  I can think of a thousand things more useful.

 

Oh, ok that makes more sense. Yeah im not sure why they pushing that silly atk speed buff. Considering Helium destroyed QA lol. Yup many other things that can actually be useful, but then that's logical thinking. Clearly as seen by these skills suggestions, theres no logic or sense involved. Just random string of crap hoping to become a skill.

finally on my computer sooo, I can color in quotes! woo!

 

so, wait would I be correct in assuming that:

you and Vernon suggested skills

helium and alteris said "mhm mhm, oh yeah that's great"

and then spewed out this nonsense as what they are trying to push?

 

I mean im not really surprised, we had 8 months of skill suggestions and then we got...well...yeah...so.....


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#14 BloodyHalo

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:38 AM

finally on my computer sooo, I can color in quotes! woo!

 

so, wait would I be correct in assuming that:

you and Vernon suggested skills

helium and alteris said "mhm mhm, oh yeah that's great"

and then spewed out this nonsense as what they are trying to push?

 

I mean im not really surprised, we had 8 months of skill suggestions and then we got...well...yeah...so.....

 

Nope They created/suggested these skills, I opted for fixing things first like fixing our bugged weapons, adding stats to our gear that actually helps our class, fixing the damage to defenses ratio (The pointless extra defense when defense caps at 3600, getting hit for amazing amounts, not being able to tank damage, etc.) before going into skills.  


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#15 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 08:57 AM

Nope They created/suggested these skills, I opted for fixing things first like fixing our bugged weapons, adding stats to our gear that actually helps our class, fixing the damage to defenses ratio (The pointless extra defense when defense caps at 3600, getting hit for amazing amounts, not being able to tank damage, etc.) before going into skills.

Ooo so you wanted to try to fix the underlying problem. Or one of them.
Eek. Bold move. Bold move.
10/10 for boldness
1/10 for thinking it would work
I can float you a 6/10 avg
Would bang when slightly tipsy.
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#16 Kazara

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 10:18 AM

Expertise = Prot debuff counter, cool :0

 


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#17 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 11:17 AM

Expertise = Prot debuff counter, cool :0

blah

considering the amount of prots in game, its not even worth mentioning lol


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#18 Vernon

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 01:09 PM

Hi guys!

First of all i absolutely agree with all of u in this topic. The goal of share of Alteris' ideas was to show him ur responses. As bloody said, me and War didnt suggested all of these what u can see now. We got them. But, if all of us say these are useless things,ideas MAYBE it can change before they put it into game. I hope so, like u:) It's also our job to check forum and tell them what everybody wants. 

Off topic: As Ninng said, the main problem is not only with the skills, it's with the system. if i had power i would change all of this whole pk system, seriously. Group vs group, battlefield is fine, it needs. (although im lonely wolf, i dont go to bf, i dont like fight with group). In WoW, in Aion i was travelling and pked ppl in solo. Here i could do it as well but: 1. not enough players, maps almost empty, 2. in other games if i kill enemy fraction nothing happen, i feel good. HERE? if i kill somebody, Im bad boy, im red and i get a lots of negative effects: cant join to group, cant sit down, cant sell/trade, cant use wingrider etc...WHY?? Ok we can be cleaned, but who will kill me if i have -30k tendency? should i buy pk resets everyday? No thx, i dont do pk. What else can i do? duel all days im actually do it for a long time...boring, or go play group vs group in battlefield or join to dokdo vs vende drama? its usually 5v1 or 10v 5 or 20v 10...not funny, pointless for me and as i said i dont like group fight, coz i dont wanna take care of others also if somebody help me and i win i dont feel im strong just like if 2ppl beat me i dont feel im weak. Solutions? Nothing gonna happen Im pretty sure. But i would delete all of these negative effects which come with red status!!  I dont say they should give rewards if somebody pk the others but these penaIties are nonsense. I would put a new map in to game with boxes and mobs. Open world map like valdes but with weaker mobs to give chances for +0-+10 gear ppl too. Players would go for boxes and others could pk them we could fight for boxes without red status penalty. The reward of boxes can be sealed 2 days lant or drop item, costume, sealed 2day 30% xp or 250k-500k-1kk lant coupons, 2 days mounts anything, idk, but i would really apreciate if we can get this map with removed negative effects of pk status. Im sure this place wouldnt be empty:) It could be a bigger map, not only a small city. People would enjoy, much better than standing in afk in alban..Maybe pve ppl also would visit this place for rewards in hope nobody will kill them, but they never know:)
What ya think about it? Its a nice dream no?


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#19 NorrinRadd

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 01:40 PM

That dream brought a tear to my eye.

9/10
Would break up with my gf to bang
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#20 ARKILIUS

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 06:00 PM

stay on topic guys :heh:


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#21 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 09:56 PM

OK, after reading your posts and replies, and I certainly agree with most discussion included there, let me have another go at it.

 

First of all, any criticism and “annoyance” I might have is certainly not directed to the Representatives, I am sure you can only do that much, and it is already good that at least your / our voice can be heard. Most of the time what I say goes out to the “team”, the one(s) who call the shots.

 

Topic No 1. The Defender / Commander / Protector class(es) and the use of 2-handed weapons. No, niet, never, ever, like NOOOOOOO. I have been advocating this firmly for several years, not just now. I will not go again into details but, pretty please. Bartuks (Warrior tree) will do it BETTER. A lot better. They always did and will always do. Period. There is no point at all trying to be a half-arsed Bartuk, no matter what skills they would give, Bartuks have better ones. End of story.

 

Also on this very topic. Requiem is NOT a game  that was designed with that kind of “freedom of choice”. And it will never be. I said it before, it is not and it will not be Elder Scrolls. If anything, it should actually become more STRICT about which class uses what. Why? I will tell you why, though you already know it. Because a “clothie mage” is already presented with good choices, Staff, Wand & Magic Shield (argh!) and even Knuckles. I actually never liked the “Magic Shield” either, but since it was there from the beginning, OK. At least magic shields never quite gave immense benefits concerning mitigation of incoming damage, but lately, this has changed, significantly.

 

So, if I was never too happy about magic shields, imagine how totally peeeesed I am about “normal” shields, with much higher mitigation capability, being used. Not sure if serious. People might say, come on, what is 25 or 30% block or some block def gonna do. It will do MORE than 0% would do, yeah? This is what “clothie” nukers really needed (or anyone else), on top of their increased (capped?) defense, resistances, perpetual heals and apocalypse dps. Absolutely.

 

To conclude this topic, where “clothie” also insert other fancy folks, like say… zerks, and you get a nice picture. A picture of a total madhouse, not a structured game / environment. Final question: All those other games, with a similar philosophy to Requiem, that strictly adhere to what each class can use and offer / impose even more limited choices, and I am sorry but… are a lot more successful and popular than Requiem, are all these the actual fools and idiots? Or do they know something our “team” here merrily prefers to ignore (there could be many examples, let me just throw in a couple, TERA, and also say SkyForge from the latest in the “market”, sure, you can argue, far from perfect, but their classes do work a lot better than here).

 

Topic No 2. Several times the discussion revolves around “AA” or “SS” Commanders. And how “AA” ones would be a complete joke now. To which I probably agree, even if I have not cared to test it lately, but I can imagine. One thing to remember… Skills are there to be used. There was never a truly “AA Commander”, what that would mean? Using just basic attacks, no matter what? My own character was a “hybrid”, for my own reasons, but see, I would certainly “spam skills” whenever that was possible (and yeah it was quite a damn struggle to keep up with mana, even with “uber” stats, and everyone knows that who actually used to play a few years ago). Thing is, I would also use my AAs in between, or as “fillers”, while skills were on cd, or mana was low. And why not? At the time my AA could do say 2.5k, or perhaps 1.5k on high def targets, which of course would make people laugh these days. Except, those hits along with say 5-6k moonlights and maybe 4k boomerangs and such, would quickly eat through the 20k or so HPs (and MUCH lower def) that “clothies” (and others) could have, and actually those were the well geared ones. So, that silly “AA” had some merit.

 

The problem isn’t that much about that now, the thing is this kind of damage, or more, whether it comes from “AA” or “SS”, is just meh and inadequate, if not plainly pitiful. Since you ain’t really gonna scratch that folk with twice the HPs and def, also probably having some uber heals, and not to mention the Armageddon of dps, and the need to first get through that so you could possibly even start smacking. Is this a fairly accurate description of the situation these days, or I got it wrong?

 

Topic No 3. What to actually do to give Commanders a “fair boost” and make them an actual class and not the adorable clowns of the circus, that provide some good laughs before being roasted like piglet fodder.

 

It is a tough one on its own. I will always stand firm in my belief, that it isn’t a specific class problem, it is a general, “fundamental” one, and as such, trying to “fix” only part of the problem could, at best, only be partially (and I mean little, very little) successful.

 

We could again discuss many skills and options and variations, in the end nothing would be truly remarkable without breaking the game further and probably creating a FOTM, new “god mode” class, aka “zerk Mk II”. Do we want that? I don’t think so, no one in their right mind.

 

However, the way things are right now. The quickest way to actually give Commanders a boost would be … To give them new skill(s) or improve existing ones by adding SOME “penetration”. Before you go into raging ape mode, read again: SOME.

 

I mean, a percentage of the damage inflicted would go “unchecked”, there fore penetrating and bypassing defense and resistance. This would of course scale up to some max, according to level etc. So, you would not have the “new Beam Slash”, but you could have something that at best could inflict, say, 20% “unavoidable” damage. Does it sound too much? I don't know, it is just a random number thrown, could be tested. I am certainly NOT the next lunatic who wants to see 10k UNAVOIDABLE damage inflicted, hint, hint, guess who are doing that already…

 

On the other hand, and since Commanders actually would never quite score a 10k hit, or even half of that (?), that 20% I just threw in, would not be something really massive, would it? As I said, we could fine tune it to something acceptable, but meaningful. WTF do I need a 250 bleed DoT for 5-6-10 seconds for, and such. That 20% could actually be higher, it could be say something that deals 5k damage, as long as that is NOT spammable or abused. Again random numbers, but say that 5k “unchecked” damage would be something, once in a while, and let’s be honest, still would not be the turning point in most situations. But, hey, would maybe make a Commander just a little happy or proud even.

 

Topic No 4. I believe Commanders also need some kind of “crowd control”. A useful one, not an “uber” one, not a game breaking one. Something that could even “annoy” the enemy ranks. Something that could disrupt / interrupt the ridiculous “I am sitting in my own sea of aoes eating popcorn, while everyone burns to a crisp before even getting here” situation. Maybe something like a “leash” that could PULL those chaps OUT of their comfort spot and TOWARDS the Commander (and their own party / comrades). Something like that. Effects, duration, cool downs and all that could be discussed and tested.

 

Well, these were some more of the ideas I had. I thought I might just throw them in. Will probably end in the garbage heap, but oh well, at lest something to share between us.


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#22 Kazara

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 02:48 AM

So big wall of texts O_O


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#23 NorrinRadd

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:04 AM

Crisscross
Add .25 second hush each level
Moonlight
Add .5% total enemy hp dmg on top of regular dmg per level
Moonbeam
Add .5 second root per level
Hp blessing
Change min level to 40
Change to have passive effect as well: 2% hp per lvl, 2% resistance, 2% defense
Quick attack
Change min level to 40
Change name to Unstoppable Attack
Change speed bonus back to .1 per level, add 1 second of kick immunity per level. Change Cooldown to 1 minute.
I still vote for face strike having aoe dna option, so you can choose aoe or single target longer duration.

Idk, will this make it better to play?
Was thinking this could be efficient short term


Edited due to some Opness I missed cuz I derped

Edited by NorrinRadd, 22 October 2015 - 08:53 AM.

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#24 Kazara

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:45 AM

You forgot to mention reduce face strike duration norrin, with moonlight giving silence too it's a perma silence or stun. Also all that effects from that low level buff?Wtf lol


Edited by Kazara, 22 October 2015 - 08:48 AM.

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#25 NorrinRadd

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Posted 22 October 2015 - 08:48 AM

Eh forgot moonlight has low Cooldown
Swap moonlight and criss cross
And increase cd to 20 seconds
And decrease hush duration to .25 per level
Increase level of the new QA to 40, feel better?

Edited original post

Yeah sorry missed those points, was at work multitasking lol

Edited by NorrinRadd, 22 October 2015 - 08:54 AM.

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