96 replies to this topic

[Precrush]

Someone in the patch notes thread said that the fact that this halloween mm (mission map) was released so quick after the pirate one that it reduced their excitement for it. This got me thinking.

Now in that same thread Popcorn said that this halloween event mm was going to be made inaccessable after the holiday unlike last year. This means people could no longer get those 2x potions when ever needed, and as a result, lvling would be even slower than it is now.

So what I propose is having an event mm of somekind available in pow at all times. This mm would change every once in a while, and every time it does, the new mm will take the place of your ongoing event for a few weeks. This means that for these few weeks you could get the special items related to the mm (aka costumes I guess), and for the rest of the time the mm would only drop basic items such as souls, powders, money bags AND the exp potions.

Pros:
-An event mm would be available at all times, increasing the amounth of content
-People, especially those who didn't play during events that dropped exp pots, would get less frustrated about lvling up

Cons:
-More work for the staff
-Excitement for new event mm's could be reduced, although the special items should keep them in demand still.

opinions?

[Popcorn]

Hello,

 

I hope this topic does not end the same way the other one did.

 

We can't make an additional persistent mission map because of current client limitations. Also I spoke to many players which told me they only run the HW MM for the pots and actually they are bored by it. 

 

So basically I wanted to talk to the production team making the pots available to everyone for exchange at the vending machine.

You would need to have a bit effort to obtain it but not that much that it could lead to frustrations.

 

But what was going on in the patch notes topic made me thinking about the fact if we give out too much free stuff and some players are getting too used to it (please don't take this as an offense, it's not meant like that).

I heard many critical voices that we give out too much free stuff and that makes people greedy and lazy (not my words!). 

 

We had the possibility to remove the original HW map since about 6 months now but I advised not to do it, because of the possibility to farm the pots and we are aware how hard it is to level up in the higher level ranges at the moment. Sadly after what happened lately in the patch notes topic I am no longer sure we made the right decision.

 

The HW map will be disabled because we want to push the game into the right direction - I mean that event maps are available during events and stay special. For this reason we changed all the rewards because we didn't think that the map was special enough in the past.

 

However, my personal feeling is still to provide everyone with this small pots, but would this be appreciated or will the players then start to complain again about this and that (the exchange rate for example, or the effort)? I am not longer sure on this.

 

We thought about somewhat between 5~10 silver coins per potion at the vending machine. Anyway this for sure has also to be approved by the producer finally. Nothing is carved in stone yet, except that the HW map will be disabled after this event. But chances are good that the pots could come into the vending machine.

 

 

Edited by Popcorn, 20 October 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Rainnowx]

Spoiler

Now in that same thread Popcorn said that this halloween event mm was going to be made inaccessable after the holiday unlike last year. This means people could no longer get those 2x potions when ever needed, and as a result, lvling would be even slower than it is now.

So what I propose is having an event mm of somekind available in pow at all times. This mm would change every once in a while, and every time it does, the new mm will take the place of your ongoing event for a few weeks. This means that for these few weeks you could get the special items related to the mm (aka costumes I guess), and for the rest of the time the mm would only drop basic items such as souls, powders, money bags AND the exp potions.

Pros:
-[...]
-People, especially those who didn't play during events that dropped exp pots, would get less frustrated about lvling up

Cons:
-More work for the staff
-Excitement for new event mm's could be reduced, although the special items should keep them in demand still.

 

'going to reply what I "blod-ed and italic-ed" in this quote.

 

_If leveling as it is now were so slow, then how did I do to get Lv.60 and complete final Class after exactly 6 months? (I don't know about my char's time but it was it.)

Silly question, at that time, I didn't really cared about Potions and other stuff. I only took advantage of the "combo-counter's" EXP multiplier, being able to easily stay over 100combo.

If I were to keep the combo basis and add Potions, Hunter Quests and other stuff, I would be able to do all of this within 3 months... But I'm too busy with only one char', and my own life, so I guess I'm not one to speak, huh :q

 

 

_The Event's MM being related to Halloween, there shouldn't be its Costumes or anything Halloween-related in the suggested Map.

 

_I would be frustrated by missing the Event itself rather than its rewards.

 

_For something simple, I don't think so. But as many other people would say (I won't take a position here, only quoting/repeating): there are more important problems to solve.

 

_I don't get that part.

[Homurasan]

Hmm, less "hidden" old event map grinding in the early levels for more questing ? I might actually like this kind of fix, even more so if I have to do something already useful (i.e : gather gold from any mission map by killing monsters, and thus obtain silver coins) in order to get exp potions.

 

One of Dragon Saga's problems (which I think isn't related to Warpportal as much as it is to the korean developers) is the boatload of abusable glitches, bugs and so on that make the game easier for those who know how they work. Including, but not limited to, basic element mass extraction (fixed now, thank God), hidden maps such as the Halloween one... People might get upset if you were to fix said glitches, but hell, we aren't playing SSBM ; Dragon Saga doesn't quite need this many glitches to be enjoyable.

[Fliederduft78]

Hmm, less "hidden" old event map grinding in the early levels for more questing ? I might actually like this kind of fix, even more so if I have to do something already useful (i.e : gather gold from any mission map by killing monsters, and thus obtain silver coins) in order to get exp potions.

 

One of Dragon Saga's problems (which I think isn't related to Warpportal as much as it is to the korean developers) is the boatload of abusable glitches, bugs and so on that make the game easier for those who know how they work. Including, but not limited to, basic element mass extraction (fixed now, thank God), hidden maps such as the Halloween one... People might get upset if you were to fix said glitches, but hell, we aren't playing SSBM ; Dragon Saga doesn't quite need this many glitches to be enjoyable.

 

support

 

I actually think this kind of a "fix" could be very positive. Cause at the time being it is like "oh I need pots for the exp weekend........let's do halloween.......for hours". So you got farming halloween map for hours, impossible to do anything else beside farming said map at the same time.

Now I would be able to basically do........everything I want.......while I'm farming the needed silver coins for the pots. It would not be limited to being forced to farm the same map over and over again for hours. I would be able to do HunterG quests, Hidden Map farming (like crystal lake of spirits for example), or do some normal questings, or just f1 goldfarming everywhere while I can collect silver coins to exchange them for pots (or whatever else I want) afterwards.

 

I personally would fully support this.

 

And I agree, DS surely doesn't need this many glitches to be enjoyable. I couldn't agree more.

 

 

 

Edited by Fliederduft78, 21 October 2015 - 02:47 AM.

[5143121023173906760]

I don't think this suggestion makes any sense since you can already get some X1,5 xp potions in the New Origins gasha box.

[Rainnowx]

Spoiler

<Deleted part.>

 

Am I misreading?

Edited by Rainnowx, 21 October 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[Precrush]

Adding the potions to the vending machine is a better solution, one I didn't think about. I think 5 silver coins would be good, they would be compareable to a soul stack so effectively cost 40g ea, which I feel is a fair price. Alternatively hour long potions could be added and these would cost more, but with many f7's failing due to bugs and lag, I guess 10min cheaper ones would be better.

Please do not let suggestions/opinions/complaints effect your decisions too much and atleast don't punish the community for them. If the team wants to reduce the amouth of free stuff one gets making an already excisting problem worse is not the way to do it. Remember, you are the ones who call the shots, we just circle at your feet shouting.

[Agitodesu]

I think roughly 5-10 silver coins would be nice. Considering jack beans x 10 costs 3000 gold in IM 1:6 ratio, divide that by 10 beans, you get 1 bean per 300 gold and it applies to all players on the same map, and in most cases are used in F7 which is 4. Divide 300 by 4 and you get 75 gold per person. That's around the price of 2 soul stacks. Then again when you buy the bean package you also get megaphones so it may lower the value on beans a tiny bit. Messy math, but it should be around 5-10 silver coins. 5 would make everyone happy, 10 would still satisfy many people since it matches the value of a bean. (I hope its 5 though, don't bash me for being cheap, )
In defense for beans being useful, they stack with 2x potions, as long as you use it before the one that uses the bean uses it. So it is still a viable addition to using a 2x potion rather than only an alternative. Heck I would farm those silver coins and buy beans if I were to be in the leveling season in my world.

Edit:Whoops didn't see popcorn already mention 5-10 I just guessed the price range of stuff to get those numbers.

Edited by Agitodesu, 21 October 2015 - 02:06 AM.

[5143121023173906760]

I don't think this suggestion makes any sense since you can already get some X1,5 xp potions in the New Origins gasha box.

For 10 silver gasha coins. You can have 5 potions X1,5 xp which is more than enough.

At least...for me it's enough. Whenever I go to Halloween map it's just for leveling my characters from 10 to 40.

[Precrush]

It is not quarenteed, you can easily open 10 of those and not get a single one, also, they are only 1.5x potions. Quite a lot of difference there.

[Fliederduft78]

Agree, those give "only" 1.5x EXP. The little potions from the Halloween map do give you 2.0 EXP.

For some people this 0.5 plus really matters.

 

With this method you will get your 2.0 EXP potion for sure, every time you pay your silver coins for it. There is no risk, you see what you get and "pay" for it. There is no risk involved and no luck - for those that want the potions.

And yes, agreed 5 up to 10 (max) silver coins per potion would be fine. I really think that covers the right price range just fine.

 

Edited a typo in my first post btw.......now it should make sense

Edited by Fliederduft78, 21 October 2015 - 02:52 AM.

[SoulSight]

I heard many critical voices that we give out too much free stuff and that makes people greedy and lazy (not my words!). 

 

Interesting. I used to think the same thing but I could not figure the causes of it. If you know, mind explaining? At last I have the same thought.

[Laburey21]

lvling would be even slower than it is now

So what I propose is having an event mm of somekind available in pow at all times.

 

- I never thought that levelling was that slow. 

 

- Calling it an event when it's perpetual is not really good.

 

We can't make an additional persistent mission map because of current client limitations.

 

I heard many critical voices that we give out too much free stuff and that makes people greedy and lazy (not my words!). 

 

However, my personal feeling is still to provide everyone with this small pots, but would this be appreciated or will the players then start to complain again about this and that (the exchange rate for example, or the effort)? I am not longer sure on this.

 

- It's not necessary to place everything in PotW. You can use Odellia. Or some other town, with consideration of level limits.

 

- I don't really have an opinion on if there has been too much free stuff, but I think some of it should be seen as continuing compensation for the game still being very buggy. Also, I think when there is "real" new content made in the future there will be new stuff that won't be given out for free as easily.

 

- Personally I think 2x exp-potions in the vending machine could spoil players and lead to a normalisation of the 2x rate. Unless the completion of developer takeover and full access to bug-fixing are still years away, I think it's not a good idea.

 

If leveling as it is now were so slow, then how did I do to get Lv.60 and complete final Class after exactly 6 months?

 

- It's usually above lvl 60 that people complain about. But I think it's not so slow as some people make it seem.

 

One of Dragon Saga's problems (which I think isn't related to Warpportal as much as it is to the korean developers) is the boatload of abusable glitches, bugs and so on that make the game easier for those who know how they work.

 

- It's the biggest problem by far and it seems to have become worse lately. At least that's what I gather when looking in the market and the availability of certain items...

[Precrush]

Most people who still play this game obviously have little problem lvling. I for example didnt mind it much, got to 81 in 3 months. I did, however, use all possible exp boosts and my game time is propably getting close to 1000 already, although I obviously also took my time enjoying the game.

That may be fine to some people, but if we want a thriving, growing community with a future, lvling that slow is not acceptable, that is not an opinion, it is a fact. If exp rate was doubled from what it is now including the exp pots, it could be a bit much, but still better than now.

Many more "casual" people who have liked this game have given up on getting to the end game. I have seen this happen all too much in my years, we need those people too. Technicalitys can be disagreed upon, but in its core, lvling has to become faster.

[Popcorn]

Since it's too complicated to quote everything separately I added my comments in bold italic to your quote:

 

- I never thought that levelling was that slow. 
It is very slow from 60+. I think almost everyone agrees to that.

 

- Calling it an event when it's perpetual is not really good.

 

 

- It's not necessary to place everything in PotW. You can use Odellia. Or some other town, with consideration of level limits.
The limits are the number of mission maps itself, not the locations where they're placed. 

 

- I don't really have an opinion on if there has been too much free stuff, but I think some of it should be seen as continuing compensation for the game still being very buggy. Also, I think when there is "real" new content made in the future there will be new stuff that won't be given out for free as easily.
I can't remember saying that we are going to remove all the free stuff which is in the game. Have a look at the Vending Machine: Insurance Scrolls, Pet Food, Mount Food, Friends Forever, 2 Balloons - everything obtainable for nothing than a bit of effort. 

 

- Personally I think 2x exp-potions in the vending machine could spoil players and lead to a normalisation of the 2x rate. Unless the completion of developer takeover and full access to bug-fixing are still years away, I think it's not a good idea.

They are already spoiled. I know of players who ran the old HW mission map hundreds of times a day to gather all the 2x EXP potions. I think putting them into the Vending Machine instead makes the transition to a "normalized" game (Event Maps for events) easier for the players and they can at least farm the silver coins where they want to instead of running the "boring" HW event map for nothing than the potions. Maybe this makes actually playing this game more popular again, because you can farm the silver coins wherever you want instead of useless grinding. Since these coins do not drop that much in F7 playing the game is needed instead of staying in F7 to get potions to do F7.

 

- It's usually above lvl 60 that people complain about. But I think it's not so slow as some people make it seem.

I have some of my chars at lvl 60+ and I have admit it's a pain, especially for casual players. 

 

- It's the biggest problem by far and it seems to have become worse lately. At least that's what I gather when looking in the market and the availability of certain items...

If you see items which make problems lately I would appreciate if you would tell me more about them by PM. But if you're talking about the basic elements, we all know from what this comes and the source of it already has been drained. But we still have to fight against the leftovers.

[Laburey21]

Many more "casual" people who have liked this game have given up on getting to the end game.

 

Would you say it's correct to assume it's above level 60 that those players feel the levelling becomes too slow? If so, it would be better to just boost exp-gain for level 60+. For example increasing the ch3 exp boost and putting 2x potions with lvl 60 lower limit in the vending machine.

[Fliederduft78]

People already farmed the halloween map for the pots with level 20+ chars. Some of them farm them for later on (level 40 +), while others wait till level 60+ to actually use them. Those potions are in masses already in the game, in masses. If you want me to count the ones I farmed myself I would say........it would be......600+ (all chars of mine involved, not just one, haha).

This map was in since over a year, everyone I know got in there to farm pots. Everyone of the people I know hated that they have to go in there to farm them.

 

Now at least by putting those potions in the vending machine for coins, people have to actually play this game. Cause the drop rate of these coins in f7 is very low. With this step the people are not forced to grind a map over and over again, a map they hate, grinding they hate.....just for this one purpose. And after that they simply go in F7 - this they will still do. But except seing only F7 and the Halloween map, those people now can see F7 and any other place that they like to farm on the game has to offer. This will for sure open up the world of many of these players and this could be very very good for this game.

 

 

[5143121023173906760]

The problem isn't about the xp rates, it us more than fine for leveling.

I for exemple, have at the moment 50 hours of time played on my character and he is already level 56 (even if I took some time to talk with people standing at PoW.)

And I most of the time I leveled, was on weekend and alone, using xp pot X2 from 20-50 and some pot X1,5 from 50-56.

I think the problem is whenever people want to do some F7, they always look for a full party which is making many people discouraged because of the time needed to find players to play with.

How leveling has to become faster ?
Are F7 not enough for you ?

I think what the game actually needs (excluding bug fix) is too balance the contents that already exist (sch as PvP or class skills) before adding any more of them.

[Laburey21]

How leveling has to become faster ?
Are F7 not enough for you ?

I think what the game actually needs (excluding bug fix) is too balance the contents that already exist (sch as PvP or class skills) before adding any more of them.

 

This is something of that I'm thinking as well.

 

And there are other ways to increase exp-gain than potions.

 

One source of decent exp that seems to be forgotten is the Zodiac dungeons - imo they give good exp, especially at Legendary. Opening up Zodiac dungeons for more runs per day could be an idea. Just need to change the quests to give more entrance items.

 

And how about specifically increasing exp for the dungeons that give ridiculously little exp - Black Claw Nest and Element dungeons?

Edited by Laburey21, 21 October 2015 - 05:48 AM.

[SoulSight]

Talking to leveling in F7. I do not know how many people know of consuming the defense order to get x1.1 exp (not opener). It stays so secret unless the players are "naughty" to discover by right-clicking everything in consumerism inventory.

Edit : I will soon add this part for my "Did you know..." topic.

Edited by SoulSight, 21 October 2015 - 05:01 AM.

[Popcorn]

I appreciate the discussion and all the ideas but adding the pots (which were available for basically everyone because everyone knew how to start the old Halloween map) to the Vending Machine is a needed and pragmatic step.

 

What do you think would happen with many players when we now take away the EXP pots they are used to get? I don't think that I need to explain that further here.

If we want to change things to a different possibility of levelling we can't do that in 4 weeks. I doubt that this can be done in 2 or 3 months, because what seems to be an "easy" thing is actually much work. We need at least sort of a transition phase for the players which are used to have this pots available.

 

This does not mean that the pots will stay forever in the Vending Machine if there are other levelling mechanisms or better EXP balancing is available in the future.

 

 

 

Edited by Popcorn, 21 October 2015 - 05:11 AM.

[SoulSight]

There is a 60% exp pot in vending machine (exactly 60%? I don't remember) and I think nobody use it for now.

[5143121023173906760]

And there are other ways to increase exp-gain than potions.

One source of decent exp that seems to be forgotten is the Zodiac dungeons - imo they give good exp, especially at Legendary. Opening up Zodiac dunegons for more runs per day could be an idea. Just need to change the quests to give more entrance items.

Farming Hydra is one of the thing I thought. But never had the time to do it.

I'm pretty sure you can get an interesting ammount of xp there.

[Popcorn]

There is a 60% exp pot in vending machine (exactly 60%? I don't remember) and I think nobody use it for now.

 

Sure, everyone uses the free 2x from the old HW map.