96 replies to this topic

[StormHaven]

Sigh, this is exactly what I was talking to popcorn about too many EXP events have spoiled the playerbase that they aren't used to leveling without it anymore.  Leveling is DS isn't actually that slow if you're not constantly waiting around for full parties/high level leechers to boost.

[SoulSight]

Please quote me right. I said it is impossible without client changes.

 

It's complicated to find that content to quote... and I'm sorry for remember incorrectly.

 

 

Sigh, this is exactly what I was talking to popcorn about too many EXP events have spoiled the playerbase that they aren't used to leveling without it anymore.  Leveling is DS isn't actually that slow if you're not constantly waiting around for full parties/high level leechers to boost.

 

 

But the point was for people who cannot spend weekdays, especially students, to play and xEXP is their opportunity.

Edited by SoulSight, 22 October 2015 - 01:04 PM.

[ManItsMike]

Sigh, this is exactly what I was talking to popcorn about too many EXP events have spoiled the playerbase that they aren't used to leveling without it anymore. Leveling is DS isn't actually that slow if you're not constantly waiting around for full parties/high level leechers to boost.

This. This. This. This. This.
Players have a tendency to choose quality over quantity, which isn't always a bad thing, but declining a level 53 while shouting in trade chat for an hour for your 55+ party is inefficient. Heck, I have a tendency to do F7s solo on my noobs, and party on the weekends just because it's not worth the time waiting for people unless you're going to be doing a bunch of leveling in one day. I have to say, this is an entry-level MMO, and grinding is a breeze. one of the many reasons I love this game.

[SoulSight]

This. This. This. This. This.
Players have a tendency to choose quality over quantity, which isn't always a bad thing, but declining a level 53 while shouting in trade chat for an hour for your 55+ party is inefficient. Heck, I have a tendency to do F7s solo on my noobs, and party on the weekends just because it's not worth the time waiting for people unless you're going to be doing a bunch of leveling in one day. I have to say, this is an entry-level MMO, and grinding is a breeze. one of the many reasons I love this game.

 

I know...so poor & sad that the less people in party are, the faster participants consume fatigue, the less bombs spawn. Also bonus bombs are the major part which gives a lot of EXP.

And yeah...I really do not like those guys that shouting declining by giving a condition because of lowering the mobs' level. It's not a fault for the players who have lower level than the others to be denied.

[Homurasan]

Also bonus bombs are the major part which gives a lot of EXP.

 

Absolutely not. These bombers must give about twice as much as a regular monster of the same wave, and you have at least 5 waves for one round of bombers.

[Lysanna]

Im one of the capped players ingame. I like my level and I enjoy farming with it all the time and cause of exp weekends I have to die more often than normal, for loosing exp, but I dont complain about the exp weekends. I know a lot of people really love the weekends for leveling and also for farming Kryos for both, gold and exp. There are people talking days before in guild for safe level parties at the weekend .

 

Maybe its only my opinion but in my feeling Dragonsaga is one of the games have such a lot of possibilitys to farm from lvl 40+. So players with less time can also play the game and enjoy it, they will need more time for level up if they re spending time for questing or farming dungeons, but standing in f7 all day and night long must be very boring, too.

 

Like Agitodesu and Rainnowx (thank you both for completing my list^^) also show, there are a lot of things for leveling relatively fast.

I knew a lot of players started game with only the thought "I want get high lvl as fast as possible". The most ones quited game after high level or full equip, they lost fun and decided to look for other games. The sad is, a lot of these players never did the cute quests, or the dungeons in the planed level (it can be very funny and fascinating doing it^^).

Its great want to use the full content and playing in high level, but enjoying game and finding your own way for having fun should be the most important thing.

 

About the potions:

Althought my character is capped I prefer popcorns idea taking the exp potions in vending machine, so all players can use it like before. This will do leveling easier for the players want to use it.

The idea with a channel for players wont level at the exp weekends is also a really great idea and it would be very useful for players like me .

[Laburey21]

It seems there must be a lot of players who rush through the game and then when they realise there aren't as much content as there should be at the highest level, they lose interest. Unless they all want to reach max level to do elite pvp or something like that. Well, everyone has the right to play the game they want to.

 

I've become convinced that 2x pots in the vending machine is the best (least bad) solution for now. We have to trust Popcorn and WP to know what will generate the most income for the game in the meantime while we wait for client changes and other deeper changes to become possible. When this happens I believe Popcorn and WP will find ways to cater to all playing styles, for example with different exp rates on different channels as Lysanna and others have mentioned.

 

I only wish we knew how much longer we'll have to wait. At least on which scale it is, months or years?

Edited by Laburey21, 23 October 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Popcorn]

I only wish we knew how much longer we'll have to wait. At least on which scale it is, months or years?

 

Not years.

 

So purely hypothetical spoken a channel 4 without any EXP bonuses server-wise would be appreciated?

[Nobbye]

So purely hypothetical spoken a channel 4 without any EXP bonuses server-wise would be appreciated?

I believe yes, because everyone tend to level up in channels 1-3 You have my vote for this.

[Agitodesu]

Not years.

So purely hypothetical spoken a channel 4 without any EXP bonuses server-wise would be appreciated?

I just hope people that want to level don't join that channel by misreading it

Edited by Agitodesu, 23 October 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[Fliederduft78]

I just hope people that want to level don't join that channel by misreading it

 

It already states "no bonus". I mean already now.

So.......as long as you are able to read after this should get changed......you are fine.

Plus I guess Poppie for sure will inform the people beforehand (on the forums and I'm sure in the game too)

And facebook, and mainpage and Dragonlark........giggle

 

And for the blind, well I guess they will notice very fast that there is "no exp event running".......and either ask on the forums/via tickets what is wrong........or simply change the channel to another one. So all will be fine me thinks.

 

 

Oh yeah, I would support one exp event free channel too
 

[Agitodesu]

Well I'm just saying, I see people in channel 4 leveling and doing things under level 40, who knows. Maybe they're questing not trying to level

[Precrush]

I think the amount of end game content and the fact that people skip a lot of the earlier dungeons is a separate issue to the speed of lvling. People only do f7 and nothing else because dungeons, quests and such give so much less exp that if their goal is in the end game, then they see it as waste. Now I think the best way to fix this is to boost all methods of lvling, like I've said before. Also, the lack of compelling end game content is also a separate issue, makes no sense to force people to do stuff they don't want to do just because you are afraid they quit when they "finish the game".

[Laburey21]

I think the amount of end game content and the fact that people skip a lot of the earlier dungeons is a separate issue to the speed of lvling. People only do f7 and nothing else because dungeons, quests and such give so much less exp that if their goal is in the end game, then they see it as waste. Now I think the best way to fix this is to boost all methods of lvling, like I've said before. Also, the lack of compelling end game content is also a separate issue, makes no sense to force people to do stuff they don't want to do just because you are afraid they quit when they "finish the game".

 

What do you think is their goal? To get the best gear and do elite PvP, or is reaching the level cap a goal in itself?

 

Btw, what is it you say need to be fixed by boosting other methods of levelling?

[Agitodesu]

I assume precrush saying to make f7 not only the "best" method of leveling. I know there's alternatives like guild quest/hunterG etc, but F7 yields the most exp making it the most popular way to level. For example I think I've heard these being said in forums before, Boosting exp gained through quests(bad for some farmers like cards),mission maps(bad for farmers imo) it already has exp multipliers on repeats, but not enough to par with F7, dungeons(also bad for farmers) and so on so that leveling past 60-85 through questing/dungeons be viable. Everyone has their own stance to why it's bad or good so it'll be tough to decide what's the best way. Instead of declining ideas maybe if people work together to work around these so we could come to an agreement. Or just do the thing popcorn said..or both, who knows what'll happen to ds after handover

I'll just stay neutral on this or support other people.

Edited by Agitodesu, 23 October 2015 - 10:53 AM.

[Precrush]

End game gear and bosses is what people go for in mmos, and of course pvp. I know we here lack a bit in all of those category though.

 

F7 is currently multiple times faster then any other method of lvling, at higher levels the number of times it's faster compared to daily quests for example gets to the double digits. In addition, it is also an easier more passive way to level then actually doing dungeons and such. I say this as a counter argument to the "lvling is too fast because people don't actually do lower level content" argument, it is not because lvling is too fast, it's because the progress you get from doing those is minimal. This is the reason why daily quest exp rewards, quest exp rewards in general, maybe exp gained from mobs and exp given after completing a mm/dungeon all would need to be raised. I think these methods should, if no additional benefits are given (such as good gear), be faster then doing f7 in terms of exp gains due to them being more active, and I think it's healthy to reward a player for that "work". So in addition to lvling needing to get quicker at higher lvls, these alternative methods need a boost as well. But I'm sure the team is already aware of that.

[StormHaven]

Personally im still for nerfing the hell out of F7 while boosting EXP gained from f6 a lot and making dungeons(Elements,Galaxia,Van Cliff,Black Claw Nest etc) give the highest exp/run in the game.

[Agitodesu]

I hope the exp gained that way is extremely buffed. Considering without any exp events, weekday, with only a house buff and the 1.1x defense scroll boost, I only get 4% exp in 40-50 minutes at 75-85. Hopefully if you nerf the exp in f7 considering how that's the fastest way to level i expect the others to give a good amount so it's not a global nerf. Calculations are all up to the devs though.

[StormHaven]

I hope the exp gained that way is extremely buffed. Considering without any exp events, weekday, with only a house buff and the 1.1x defense scroll boost, I only get 4% exp in 40-50 minutes at 75-85. Hopefully if you nerf the exp in f7 considering how that's the fastest way to level i expect the others to give a good amount so it's not a global nerf. Calculations are all up to the devs though.

 

Almost reminds me back before f6 and f7 at 60-65 it would take 2hours to get 5% and that's with exp pots...

[Fliederduft78]

Almost reminds me back before f6 and f7 at 60-65 it would take 2hours to get 5% and that's with exp pots...

 

Yeah, the "good" old times.....I remember them well.

 

Agree, we need some sort of balancing for all the level methods available. So that people actually are able to choose which one they want to do. I guess this would add some variety to playing the game, what is good me thinks.
 

[Laburey21]

 

F7 is currently multiple times faster then any other method of lvling, at higher levels the number of times it's faster compared to daily quests for example gets to the double digits. In addition, it is also an easier more passive way to level then actually doing dungeons and such. I say this as a counter argument to the "lvling is too fast because people don't actually do lower level content" argument, it is not because lvling is too fast, it's because the progress you get from doing those is minimal. This is the reason why daily quest exp rewards, quest exp rewards in general, maybe exp gained from mobs and exp given after completing a mm/dungeon all would need to be raised. I think these methods should, if no additional benefits are given (such as good gear), be faster then doing f7 in terms of exp gains due to them being more active, and I think it's healthy to reward a player for that "work". So in addition to lvling needing to get quicker at higher lvls, these alternative methods need a boost as well. But I'm sure the team is already aware of that.

 

I don't know who's made the argument that "levelling is too fast because people don't do lower level content" but personally I don't think making people do lower level content is a goal in itself. The goal is to keep players interested in playing, doesn't really matter exactly how they play.

 

The reason I don't want levelling to be too fast is because when the players get used to it they want it to be even faster, and then even faster still, and so on. Sooner or later the line has to be drawn and I would have preferred sooner.

Edited by Laburey21, 23 October 2015 - 01:35 PM.

[SoulSight]

Personally im still for nerfing the hell out of F7 while boosting EXP gained from f6 a lot and making dungeons(Elements,Galaxia,Van Cliff,Black Claw Nest etc) give the highest exp/run in the game.

 

Almost reminds me back before f6 and f7 at 60-65 it would take 2hours to get 5% and that's with exp pots...

 

I was about to mention about that F6 that StormHaven just said... I don't want to be judged sake-of-posting so I just waited for more idea coming.

 

To level 50, (my experience) i can still level up very fast without F7 by doing wanted, hunter G, red & yellow quests. Also from level 50 above, players can go galaxia. Galaxia daily quest & boss give a lot of EXP (but I do not know if it fits with the current level of the players). Buffing dungeons is positive and buffing quest is also positive. Wanted quest is not bad at all and I don't see MANY people enjoy the system (need a reason).

 

Nefting F7 I don't think it will stop people from going there because of enchant dust business. It's the only place to find most dusts ever. (i have gone into another story at the same time)

 

P.S : oh wait, did you say dungeon? How about giant dungeon?

[Precrush]

I don't know who's made the argument that "levelling is too fast because people don't do lower level content" but personally I don't think making people do lower level content is a goal in itself. The goal is to keep players interested in playing, doesn't really matter exactly how they play.

 

The reason I don't want levelling to be too fast is because when the players get used to it they want it to be even faster, and then even faster still, and so on. Sooner or later the line has to be drawn and I would have preferred sooner.

I don't know if anyone made that specific argument or worded it so, but what you said there really sounds like that's the core of it, I'd think what you mean by keeping people interested is making them do stuff other than f7.

 

And meh, good old slippery slope fallacy. A lot of new players that we've had in our guild have remarked that how hard it is to level from lvl 60 onward. And in general I see people get unmotivated at that level and then some finally give up on lvling. Sure some people will want it to be even faster after, but that number of people will be a whole lot smaller then it is now. I just don't get why people would oppose this, do you really like to spend so many hours on lvling? Or if you are already at your desired lvl, why do you oppose making the system more likable to others?

 

Maybe, if other means of lvling are improved enough, the variety that would bring would make gaining those final 20 lvls more appealing and less demotivating to people, I couldn't know that. But those kind of changes are who knows how far, and I'd think meanwhile we could look for other solutions to get people to actually enjoy the lvling part of DS.

[Homurasan]

Actually the slope seems to be slippery in itself : people usually do want more when they're given lots. Browsing through many forums of many different games I played taught me that, and I guess it isn't only a french custom.

[SoulSight]

Actually the slope seems to be slippery in itself

In scientific term, it's called "positive feedback" and people "keep it up" until the slope changes into opposed direction as negative feedback - the supervisors see it as an abuse then they change it.

Edited by SoulSight, 24 October 2015 - 08:33 AM.