18 replies to this topic

[idkDave123]

Should I be trying to focus my gears more towards ATK boosting effects or HP boosting effects to maximize the damage?

[ka10]

both, since mHP and ATK are just multiplied if you simplify the damage formula;

and by "ATK", that includes +ATK, %ATK, +STR, and %damage(racial/physical) mods;

so you really want a balance of both (and this balance really depends on setup/build);

 

HP boosting gear (usually %mHP, but also +mHP and +VIT) are more common on low-end/mid setups since those are usually easier to get (glorious suit, variants, +X green ferus VIT boots), compared to ATK gears (+9~12 firelock STR boots, gold scaraba RWC rings, megs /omg); though of course gears like high VIT-enchant (at least VIT+14) GFSS [1] are costly too;

 

a high end setup (w/ tao armor) usually includes a lot of ATK since tao gives a lot of HP already (so ATK gears definitely result in more damage compared to having additional mHP in this case);

for a specific target like demi-humans (bio4 leveling or WoE end-game), +ATK works well with high %damage modifiers like from highly-upgraded CEB and KvM mace;

 

but of course HP also improves survivability on top of providing damage (damage which isn't that too far behind ATK-based setups), so that's one point to consider;

when it comes to end-game, one can choose to just concentrate on TC (ATK>mHP for maximizing damage) - or do both TC and (half-HP) GoH (VIT/mHP>ATK);

stacking a lot of ATK (but not leaving mHP too far behind) gives the highest possible damage in many cases (especially w/ tao) but there's also quite a larger damage variance (at least in my testing experience);

anyways, this is just vague stuff since idk what your actual setup/situation is;

Edited by ka10, 31 October 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[idkDave123]

From the sounds of it, its fairly gear dependent. Outside of MvP/God gears, it is recommended to stack HP boosting effects for damage output and survivability in the early levels and Atk boosting effects later on. At the moment, I am 158/56 with the ability to full rest to aim my build more towards the stats that effect TC to help my damage output.

 

For my current setup:

 

HP boost:

(120 Vit)

+8 GFSS (Vit+13)

+9 Temporal Vit (Firelock)

Glorious Ring + MoH Aco

 

Atk Boost:

(120 Str)

+9 Heroic Backpack

+9 Temporal Str (Firelock)

2x Glove of Sura

 

Default Gears:

+9 Turkey on Head (Carat)/+9 Rideword (Carat)

Glorious Suit

+9 Thanatos Hammer (Hunter fly)

 

 

[ka10]

Atk Boost:

(120 Str)

+9 Heroic Backpack VIT enchanted GFSS (wakwak); if you do decide to get this, high VIT enchant is recommended (a VIT+14 GFSS is below 1b (800~900m?); beyond that, it gets way more expensive due to rarity)

+9 Temporal Str (Firelock) +12 if possible

2x Glove of Sura haven't used these for TC, but the -12% mHP for 2x of these sounds quite bad; you could compare these to your MoH+GRing and see that the later might be better; if you already have 2x bako tattoos (ATK+14% total) you could test that out to; otherwise may want to stick with MoH+GRing; a significant upgrade would be gold scaraba ATK/FS enchant RWC rings (also significantly expensive);

 

Default Gears:

+9 Turkey on Head (Carat)/+9 Rideword (Carat) +9/12 turkey (bungisngis) for damage (CEB vs demi)

Glorious Suit bryn would be the next step up (gives more HP/SP at higher base levels), though yes it's a god item, but less expensive than tao (and is also the best for GFisting)

+9 Thanatos Hammer (Hunter fly)

lower:  jinn marin balloon

mid:  BDM [0] or BDM (dark pinguicula)

top costume:  VIT+1 or big/medium/small 1%damage enchant (the VIT+1 is better if you only want 1 costume and/or don't have relatively high mHP)

mid costume:  mHP+1% or ATK+1% enchant (go ATK+1% if you have a lot of +ATK gears, though honestly the damage between these two can be similar - only actual calculations will show which one is marginally better (as is for the top costumes); go mHP is you want slightly (very slighty) more survivability)

shoe costume:  +9 vital shadow shoes (+9 bloody shoes vs demi)

shield costume:  +X vital shadow shield (+9 cranial shield vs demi)

armor costume:  +7~ hard shadow armor

weapon & accessories costumes:  physical shadow set (at least +23 refine total)

 

you could stick with HP leech gears all the way if your damage is more than enough to do clean 1 shots (or if you still have to do 2 shots anyways even at full-damage gears);

going full-damage is more relevant for WoE, and really only worth it in PvM if it does result in 1 shots (for power leveling), since you may have to ditch leech gears and resort to healing with (ranked) slims - default flamel nid-garb when potting/mobbing; momentarily switch to damage gear during FC/TC;

foods/consumables help a lot too, though these are mainly reserved for WoE due to cumulative cost; if these (or at least just the HP-increase pot) do help achieve 1 shot for power leveling, then you could use if you want;

 

Edited by ka10, 01 November 2015 - 07:07 PM.

[tshin23]

HP Boosting is still better.

[ka10]

^ if you want slightly higher chance to survive in tight situations and for low/half-HP GoH to be a bit more potent, yes;

he was asking about maximizing damage though, and ATK does just that in many cases (as long as you don't just neglect mHP);

mainly personal preference, but can be situational too (provided you have both base STR and VIT at 120 for temp boot switching);

ex: small scale GvG, only 1 or very few shura on team (on that instant) - mHP (survival) preferable to ensure availability of CCs for the team;

large alliance fights, lots of shura on team - in this case ATK (max damage) can be a good choice when aiming to wipe as much of the enemy in as short period of a time as possible (sudden rush) - since the targets on the field have varied reduction levels (unlike in PvM where attributes are constant for a given monster, so setup can be more flexible) and there may not always be a squishy-looking target available in the middle of a packed group for targeting - so you may want to dish out the highest damage you can (slightly higher risk of dying, but if several shura are still available at your side and coordination is good, CCs will still be constantly available for the team); - now if coordination is really good, 2 shura can snap in and TC a group at the same time (certain wipe), in which case mHP is better for slightly less deaths and thus less downtime (more TCing/CCing);

if you've WoE-ed often enough, you can have a rough idea of your kill-death ratio and decide whether you want more kills (ATK) or less deaths (mHP) (especially if using a lot of consumables which aren't free) - of course the difference may not even be practically noticeable due to damage variance, so yeah...

above mainly refers to WoE;

for PvM, mHP (and HP leech as stated before) is the top choice if damage is more than enough for a given mob / leveling spot; otherwise ATK if it speeds up leveling (if really in a hurry to reach max level);

 

forgot to mention before but instead of just MoH+GRing, you could get another (aco) MoH for +300 more HP (you lose GRing's ele reduc effects, etc though) - if you really need the damage boost;

 

Edited by ka10, 02 November 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[nheil02]

^ if you want slightly higher chance to survive in tight situations and for low/half-HP GoH to be a bit more potent, yes;

he was asking about maximizing damage though, and ATK does just that in many cases (as long as you don't just neglect mHP);

mainly personal preference, but can be situational too (provided you have both base STR and VIT at 120 for temp boot switching);

ex: small scale GvG, only 1 or very few shura on team (on that instant) - mHP (survival) preferable to ensure availability of CCs for the team;

large alliance fights, lots of shura on team - in this case ATK (max damage) can be a good choice when aiming to wipe as much of the enemy in as short period of a time as possible (sudden rush) - since the targets on the field have varied reduction levels (unlike in PvM where attributes are constant for a given monster, so setup can be more flexible) and there may not always be a squishy-looking target available in the middle of a packed group for targeting - so you may want to dish out the highest damage you can (slightly higher risk of dying, but if several shura are still available at your side and coordination is good, CCs will still be constantly available for the team); - now if coordination is really good, 2 shura can snap in and TC a group at the same time (certain wipe), in which case mHP is better for slightly less deaths and thus less downtime (more TCing/CCing);

if you've WoE-ed often enough, you can have a rough idea of your kill-death ratio and decide whether you want more kills (ATK) or less deaths (mHP) (especially if using a lot of consumables which aren't free) - of course the difference may not even be practically noticeable due to damage variance, so yeah...

above mainly refers to WoE;

for PvM, mHP (and HP leech as stated before) is the top choice if damage is more than enough for a given mob / leveling spot; otherwise ATK if it speeds up leveling (if really in a hurry to reach max level);

 

forgot to mention before but instead of just MoH+GRing, you could get another (aco) MoH for +300 more HP (you lose GRing's ele reduc effects, etc though) - if you really need the damage boost;

 

may i ask is there a big difference between Tiger Cannon level 6 and Tiger Cannon level 10?

 

i ask this because i really want to try out max Rising Dragon just to see if it is effective than max Tiger Cannon... my job level now is 45.
 

[Ashuckel]

the difference is... a lot of damage? lol

[ka10]

if comparing A [TC10 + RD0] vs B [TC6 + RD10], A wins damage-wise;

the difference is dependent on mHP and overall %mHP mods too, but you could say B would only do somewhere around 70~85% damage as A ;

in practical terms, check if your TC-6 damage is good enough for your current leveling tier (and for the next few levels) and if the unlimited SP provided by PA+RD10 benefits you more; if so, you could just max TC afterwards;

Edited by ka10, 02 December 2015 - 02:42 AM.

[nheil02]

my build is a balanced of HP/ATK... i tried it now and your right 20% damage is lost using TC level 6 but with the unli SP provided by RD/PA much useful to me. thanks

[Althes]

May I ask what exactly do you guys mean by SP provided by RD/PA? I mean if the spheres were from gentle touch - energy gain, or from RD every 30 seconds, or both?

Also, can I ask too about the leveling spot past 140? I like solo very much, but seems like without decent gears, one cannot solo pass 150 effectively, because of the high hp of monsters, for example nightmare CT. So, I would like to hear some experience. 

Thanks in anticipation!

[hotel]

RD gives you 15 spheres, PA will absorb those to return you 15% of your max sp.

There aren't very many options for soloing past 150 if you dont have super high end gear, but best bet would probably be mora bbs (i've seen people cap their sura using those but it's pretty slow).

You could also try soloing bio4 a bit and only getting counts on the performers.

[ka10]

bio2 could also be good (just slightly less bounty exp than mora, but way less mob HP; can use nice demi gears like CEB/KvM);

if ATK/HP (from other gears) is high enough to 1 shot w/out using KvM, then could just rely on HF thanatos mace and grind counts along w/out much potting if at all;

[Althes]

I was thinking of GD and CT. Have anyone tried killing killer mantis or in nightmare mode clock tower?

[ka10]

mantis GD might be a bit troublesome if you accidentally target the angra which need 499 HIT (you will probably have around 80-90 DEX at 150s if you invested in high STR/VIT for GFSS/boots - which would be around 430~450 HIT only); probably will take 3 shots, maybe 2 if using fire endow;

try kobold GD instead if your demi-human gears are good;

NCT3 is actually quite good (if you can 1-2 shot) but you may have to 3 shot in your case (maybe 2 at 165+); 2x beholder carga for damage (use it if it reduces shots); otherwise HF thana mace;

i often used the remaining 28 minutes of BMx3 in NCT3 after a bio4 TI, and i got ~16% base EXP at lvl 170 (no exp event) 1 shotting, so you might get ~8% or less doing the same;

[Althes]

Can I know the gear you're using to 1 shot NCT? I guess Tao is a must, right. Just curious to know about the potential of FC. I'm still thinking the problem of 120s or 120v. Consider that my gears are only average, I think 120s might be better. 

[ka10]

leaf cat hat (for EXP; could use +12 stamina turkey for 1 shots at earlier levels)

BDM[0]

jinn marin

tao armor

2x beholder carga (1 shot post ~160) - HF thana (2 shot pre ~160)

penomena shield

+12 wakwak GFSS VIT+15 (damage) - flamel nid garb (default for mobbing, potting ranked slims)

+9 firelock STR temp boots

2x gold scaraba RWC ring FS3 ATK+3% STR/VIT+3

 

costumes:

EXP upper

mHP+1% mid

+28 physical set

+7 hard shadow armor

+9 vital shadow shoes (could use w/ vital shadow shield)

ASPD+1 rudra

 

STR=120, VIT=120, DEX=80~, added INT, then AGI later

 

had to use HP-inc pots at some point w/ 2x beholder carga to 1 shot and speed up leveling but didn't need it later after gaining a few more levels

 

TC missed occasionally at lower levels (big bells need 467 HIT) but is not an issue later on (just use GT-cure if blinded)

 

i also used +9 giant whisper GFSS VIT+14 with +9 firelock VIT temp boots - but this setup was slightly inferior damage-wise

 

 

Edited by ka10, 06 December 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Althes]

Thanks, looks like there's no chance I could get these armors. 

Speaking of stats, looks like you have both s and v 120?

I will figure other places. There should be some other way to level, not as efficient, though. 

[hotel]

Wow you put a wakwak card in a vit+15 gfss? Ballin'