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[Idea] MOBA-Like Server


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#51 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:30 PM

Not just one.

Yes, this one and all those other copies that use the exact same graphics, metagames, type of quests etc.

 

Incorrect.

 

What rewards?

God Items and OCAs

 

God Items count for -_- as a personal gain. See Kaddy's response as to why.

 

OCA, how many does each character get for the hours put in per WoE.

 

You do know the concept of gaining points wouldn't JUST determine capturing a castle, but for multiple things. And just because certain guilds could get to the objective faster, doesn't change the fact that eventually the lower geared guilds would eventually reach the threshold.

 

Yes just like Kill Counts, Emp breaks, Support Skills and everything else eaMod had already done for pservers? And really? Do you realize ONE fully-geared character can wipe a whole regular geared guild right? They would get to objective faster and would increase even more the gap existing between them, making nearly impossible to lower geared guilds getting anything.

 

True, as it stands one really good character can wipe out a guild, but that isn't just gears at the helm, it is experience, and plenty of it. The only way to gain experience is to practice yourself. The points are not just about success but attempts as well.

 

Not if you implemented a good point system and gave people additional reasons to WoE.

 

Do you realize people don't play WoE because they CAN'T compete against known guilds right? You can add 999 another motivations, small guilds will still struggle trying to get a random lucky last minute break while bigger guilds wipe all realms in the last minutes and get 3~5 forts each.

 

The whole point of a flexible point system it to reward people not only for successful feats, but attempts as well.

 

People play WoE for two reasons as it stands (and no one seems to be adding more just yet), for god creation and for fun.

 

Some people don't play because they feel overwhelmed which could be addressed with a well designed PVP item incentive system that encourages impossible odds play.

 

Some people don't play because there is no personal incentive.

 

Some people will never play because they just don't enjoy PVP.

 

All I keep hearing from you in particular are the silly broad answers from many threads before, when that only encompases a partial margin of why people don't play.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 12:32 PM.

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#52 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:33 PM

also, if your solution to the current woe problem is to start a brand new server, what's going to happen down the road, when you encounter the EXACT same situation? that's the nature of an mmorpg. people who play longer will be ahead of brand new players, no matter what. will you ask for a brand new server again? it's just a vicious cycle that does not treat the root cause of the problem.
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#53 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:36 PM

also, if your solution to the current woe problem is to start a brand new server, what's going to happen down the road, when you encounter the EXACT same situation? that's the nature of an mmorpg. people who play longer will be ahead of brand new players, no matter what. will you ask for a brand new server again? it's just a vicious cycle that does not treat the root cause of the problem.

 

I would like to expand this by saying, Ladder systems are great, but more for games that are NOT like RO.

 

Diablo 2 for example is a good ladder game, since most builds can be geared for and ready for the end game at a natural pace and there is no money involved outside the initial game purchase.

 

RO is the exact opposite of both those reasons.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 12:37 PM.

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#54 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:43 PM

@Nirvanna I will stop replying you regarding this "WoE Point" system until you explain to me how a system would reward a guild that's wiped by one skill. Seconds inside castle grounds? 

 

also, if your solution to the current woe problem is to start a brand new server, what's going to happen down the road, when you encounter the EXACT same situation? that's the nature of an mmorpg. people who play longer will be ahead of brand new players, no matter what. will you ask for a brand new server again? it's just a vicious cycle that does not treat the root cause of the problem.

Yes, this is true. Down the road, 3~4 years from now it'll stagnate as well and another thread like this one will appear but hey, at least we got 3~4 years of fun again, what's the point of keeping the way it is, so only the ones that have been playing for years can have fun? OR we can do something like RichieDagger suggested, something easier to gear up and level but that'll reset every season and at the end of it, we'll have rewards that'll go on to the next season. 

 

The root cause of the problem is TIME, and we can't treat that, eventualy everything in RO WILL stagnate.

 

 

I would like to expand this by saying, Ladder systems are great, but more for games that are NOT like RO.

 

Diablo 2 for example is a good ladder game, since most builds can be geared for and ready for the end game at a natural pace and there is no money involved outside the initial game purchase.

 

RO is the exact opposite of both those reasons.

 

Most builds in RO can be geared and ready for the end game at a natural pace (If the server rate is higher) and you can also play paying 0,00 dollars. Also, you're comparing a game that has actually 0 GvG with RO. The point here is the WoE, dude.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 12:47 PM.

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#55 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:51 PM

it's not a solution at all if you end up having to repeat the process over and over again. if anything what you're really asking for is a server that is just for woe, with standard gear sets for everyone. everyone is on an equal footing, and will remain on an equal footing till the end of time.

this is something that could be interesting. people get their fights, and you can incentivize participation by giving rewards on the main servers. it could have a ranking system, and reset rankings on a regular basis.
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#56 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:52 PM

@Nirvanna I will stop replying you regarding this "WoE Point" system until you explain to me how a system would reward a guild that's wiped by one skill. Seconds inside castle grounds? 

 

Yes, this is true. Down the road, 3~4 years from now it'll stagnate as well and another thread like this one will appear but hey, at least we got 3~4 years of fun again, what's the point of keeping the way it is, so only the ones that have been playing for years can have fun? OR we can do something like RichieDagger suggested, something easier to gear up and level but that'll reset every season and at the end of it, we'll have rewards that'll go on to the next season. 

 

The root cause of the problem is TIME, and we can't treat that, eventualy everything in RO WILL stagnate.

 

The only reason you aren't anymore is because thus far you have not been able to provide an answer to my initial question.

 

 

Most builds in RO can be geared and ready for the end game at a natural pace (If the server rate is higher) and you can also play paying 0,00 dollars. Also, you're comparing a game that has actually 0 GvG with RO. The point here is the WoE, dude.

 

Firstly, this is false.

 

Secondly, the server should never be higher than what was intended (outside of VIP, as WP needs incentives to make dosh to keep game afloat).

 

No, I am comparing a very successful "LADDER" game to one that just doesn't have the prospects of becoming one.


Edited by Nirvanna21, 10 November 2015 - 12:54 PM.

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#57 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:57 PM

it's not a solution at all if you end up having to repeat the process over and over again. if anything what you're really asking for is a server that is just for woe, with standard gear sets for everyone. everyone is on an equal footing, and will remain on an equal footing till the end of time.

this is something that could be interesting. people get their fights, and you can incentivize participation by giving rewards on the main servers. it could have a ranking system, and reset rankings on a regular basis.

Yes, but we won't ever have definitive solutions that'll solve everything. RO is dying, we all know that, most official servers are already dead iRO, kRO and jRO are our last shots to make it work. 

 

And yes, that'd be awesome, something like MOBAs/FPS and it'd also attract new players since it'd be dynamic and "easy" just like the games they play and it'd also be as competitive as their games, and they would also get rewards in the main server which would encourage them to PvM in the main server. 


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#58 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:59 PM

Firstly, this is false.

 

Secondly, the server should never be higher than what was intended (outside of VIP, as WP needs incentives to make dosh to keep game afloat).

 

No, I am comparing a very successful "LADDER" game to one that just doesn't have the prospects of becoming one.

If you wanna compare, compare with something that has a competitive scenario, like League of Legends which got ladders or tiers and it's reset every x months, creating a season. 


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#59 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:00 PM

If you wanna compare, compare with something that has a competitive scenario, like League of Legends which got ladders or tiers and it's reset every x months, creating a season. 

 

You haven't played Diablo 2 ladder I am guessing? Otherwise you would realise how wrong this statement is.


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#60 Necrohealiac

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:02 PM

Yes, but we won't ever have definitive solutions that'll solve everything. RO is dying, we all know that, most official servers are already dead iRO, kRO and jRO are our last shots to make it work. 
 
And yes, that'd be awesome, something like MOBAs/FPS and it'd also attract new players since it'd be dynamic and "easy" just like the games they play and it'd also be as competitive as their games, and they would also get rewards in the main server which would encourage them to PvM in the main server.


the moba type woe only server would make far more sense than an entirely fresh server. otherwise every couple years they'd need to decommission the old "new" server, merge it into the existing servers (because let's be honest, it's going to get merged or people who played on it will QQ about losing all their gears and hard work), and then start a brand new one again. not an efficient use of resourcing.
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#61 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:04 PM

the moba type woe only server would make far more sense than an entirely fresh server. otherwise every couple years they'd need to decommission the old "new" server, merge it into the existing servers (because let's be honest, it's going to get merged or people who played on it will QQ about losing all their gears and hard work), and then start a brand new one again. not an efficient use of resourcing.

Yes, but that was this thread was about. I suggested something and I was waiting for other people's suggestions to see what would be more suitable for iRO. Since gleaders won't change their mindset WP needs to do something to recover the lost WoE scenario.

 

 

Edited the first post/title.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 01:10 PM.

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#62 Kadelia

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

Define the term "moba" in your opening post =x
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#63 Xellie

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:12 PM

Yes, but that was this thread was about. I suggested something and I was waiting for other people's suggestions to see what would be more suitable for iRO. Since gleaders won't change their mindset WP needs to do something to recover the lost WoE scenario.

 

 

Edited the first post/title.

 

Not that I don't think a moba server is a good idea.... it is. Or moba content is. but when people say stuff like "guildleaders won't change their mind..." I always feel inclined to tell someone to go make their own guild and fix the scenario.


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#64 RichieDagger

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:13 PM

You haven't played Diablo 2 ladder I am guessing? Otherwise you would realise how wrong this statement is.

 

Hardcore mode for WoE. That would be a bloodbath.


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#65 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 01:16 PM

Define the term "moba" in your opening post =x

 

Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, that'd be not really an arena but a server dedicated to people that want to go hardcore on WoE and Instances/MvPs. I mean, where the people got the same opportunities and what will matter will be the skillcap not only their time spent on countless gears. 

 

 

Not that I don't think a moba server is a good idea.... it is. Or moba content is. but when people say stuff like "guildleaders won't change their mind..." I always feel inclined to tell someone to go make their own guild and fix the scenario.

I said that because of "Current State of x WoE".  I know that being a guild leader must be hard and everything, but you gotta agree that guilds with enough firepower won't just pop out trying to battle old guilds. I also understand people won't stop using Gods/MvPs, they've put a LOT of effort to it but the only thing that could be respected is big guilds not bullying small-growing guilds. As I said before there isn't ONE small guild in renewal that have made a small econ without a big guild breaking it just because they want to be the only big ones. Most of the small guilds that gets castles are last minute random breaks not guilds that actually had a fun WoE.


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 01:20 PM.

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#66 3452140212150117003

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 04:25 PM

do you really think you can take out a big guild if you have the same gear?


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#67 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 04:34 PM

do you really think you can take out a big guild if you have the same gear?

Yes, pretty much. 

 

If the player difference isn't that big, we will have pretty good fights. I mean, there's the big guilds here, but I'm sure this would attract big guilds from other places that don't actually play here because they aren't playing here for a while.


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#68 3452140212150117003

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 04:52 PM

good. then i want to see you do this.

https://forums.warpp...n-gear-edition/

same rule, and hey, you can even copy their party setup if you want.

Gear is the only difference, right?


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#69 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 05:16 PM

good. then i want to see you do this.

https://forums.warpp...n-gear-edition/

same rule, and hey, you can even copy their party setup if you want.

Gear is the only difference, right?

Dude, we're talking about WoE. WoE is never the same, it's always a new experience. For sure they deserve their props for doing it, it must be fun and everything but they're playing against an AI enemy, all you got to do is to memorize what the MvPs will do (It's the same for WoW Raids), in a WoE scenario you just CAN'T memorize these things, you gotta react fast and know what you got to do with your team.  


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#70 Nirvanna21

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 05:28 PM

Dude, we're talking about WoE. WoE is never the same, it's always a new experience. For sure they deserve their props for doing it, it must be fun and everything but they're playing against an AI enemy, all you got to do is to memorize what the MvPs will do (It's the same for WoW Raids), in a WoE scenario you just CAN'T memorize these things, you gotta react fast and know what you got to do with your team.  

 

MVPs are pretty different to raid encounters.

 

Raid encounters are pretty simple and routine based. MVPs have elements of this but are not proned to the beat of a drum, they pull plenty of random -_- out of their ass as well.

 

But anyways, the guy is merely mentioning that skill makes up a big chunk of things within this game.


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#71 3452140212150117003

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 05:34 PM

another question, chaser woe build is pretty standard overall. All of them pretty much run around with same gears, and buffs. Why do you think there is a good chaser and a bad chaser?


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#72 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 05:53 PM

another question, chaser woe build is pretty standard overall. All of them pretty much run around with same gears, and buffs. Why do you think there is a good chaser and a bad chaser?

Dude, NO ONE is saying that there isn't skillcap in this game, there is. But this can only be measured if everyone got the same gear. 

 

A undergeared Sura might be better than a top-tier one, but he won't do -_- in WoE because he'll instadie, while a Sura w/Gods and mvps will survive much more and do their job for a longer time. That's when Gear > Skill.

 

 

MVPs are pretty different to raid encounters.

 

Raid encounters are pretty simple and routine based. MVPs have elements of this but are not proned to the beat of a drum, they pull plenty of random  -_- out of their ass as well.

 

But anyways, the guy is merely mentioning that skill makes up a big chunk of things within this game.

Yea, kind of. But they also cast the exact same skills and it changes when its hp goes down to x% and you know that. That's what I meant.

 


Edited by Tanzanito, 10 November 2015 - 06:10 PM.

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#73 3452140212150117003

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 06:34 PM

if that ET thing is easy, that mean you can do it right? if you cant even do the "easy" stuff, why bother with the "hard" stuff?


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#74 Tanzanito

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 06:54 PM

if that ET thing is easy, that mean you can do it right? if you cant even do the "easy" stuff, why bother with the "hard" stuff?

I'm not saying it's  EASY, I'm saying it can be memorized. Anyone that have done enough ET Runs knows exactly how to deal with the MvPs and what's the best strategy to kill them. 

 

 

In WoE you can't MEMORIZE a guild's pattern, people won't bother to do 'Eden only ET' if they want to WoE only just because it's easier.


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Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:20 PM

i am not saying they should do it because it is easier. I am saying that you should do it to prove that you got the same skill as those from big guild.

when i asked whether you think you can take the big guild if you have the same gear, you said yes you can.

that why now i ask you to do the same thing as them.

btw, big guild do have certain pattern in woe. I can tell you, but i dont really think writing it here is the wisest thing to do.


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