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A Post Regarding Client Edits and Third Party Programs


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#126 renouille

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 09:25 PM

buyingstoreitemlist.txt, most likely. It's a list of items that the client will let you try to buy.
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#127 kingarthur6687

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 10:28 PM

I would first presume such authorizations would be performed by the server, but then I remembered this is Gravity we're talking about.

God damnit Gravity.
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#128 BookishBrenda

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 10:18 AM

God damnit Gravity.

 

The server uses a separate buying store item list, dear. pCtSP85.gif
 


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#129 xionandfriends

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 11:06 AM

buyingstoreitemlist.txt, most likely. It's a list of items that the client will let you try to buy.

 

Yes that list of items is Illegal o.o?


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#130 TheQuietStorm

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:30 PM

since my thread got closed;

Is it allowed to use an automated program to vend? since I saw a certain person vend named  condensed white potions, getting out of stock on all its vendors suddenly popping up back 4 vends at the same time filled with named condensed white potions

 

Campitor - in regards to your edit; Will there something be done by the gm's or are you going to tolerate some people bot-vending if they are a member of/in public section 9? 


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#131 KyrieDielle

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:44 PM

^auto vend is bot and bots are STILL not allowed.


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#132 Oda

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:45 PM

since my thread got closed;

Is it allowed to use an automated program to vend? since I saw a certain person vend named  condensed white potions, getting out of stock on all its vendors suddenly popping up back 4 vends at the same time filled with named condensed white potions

 

Campitor - in regards to your edit; Will there something be done by the gm's or are you going to tolerate some people bot-vending if they are a member of/in public section 9? 

It is not allowed, if you suspect a user-even a volunteer of using an illegal program to vend please send in a report. Posting accusations on the forums=/=proof that wrongdoing is taking place which is why callout threads and posts aren't allowed. 


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#133 TheQuietStorm

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:47 PM

It is not allowed, if you suspect a user-even a volunteer of using an illegal program to vend please send in a report. Posting accusations on the forums=/=proof that wrongdoing is taking place which is why callout threads and posts aren't allowed. 

 

I am not naming any names, ticket send

 

now, we'll see how there will be nothing done about it.

 

>,<


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#134 Campitor

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:55 PM

Oda has already addressed the user in question regarding the report that causing strife between you two. Although Inubashiri is wrong in attacking the user in question, it is somewhat understandable as the original post and the post that I edited originally both directly accused Inubashiri and their friend. TheQuietStorm has been around long enough to know that accusatory posts are not allowed on the forums. Usually such posts are made merely to cause undue distress to the victim. So it is understandable that a person being directly targeted in such a way would want to lash out.

 

As always if you believe a person is cheating it is important to let the GM team know at https://support.warpportal.com. Do not post it on the forums. Continued attempts to do so can result in account suspension/loss of forum access. 

 

I have removed the posts that are causing more strife than they are worth.


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#135 Necrohealiac

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:02 PM

so...when will the questions in OP actually be addressed though.
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#136 renouille

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 12:57 AM

since my thread got closed;
Is it allowed to use an automated program to vend? since I saw a certain person vend named condensed white potions, getting out of stock on all its vendors suddenly popping up back 4 vends at the same time filled with named condensed white potions

Campitor - in regards to your edit; Will there something be done by the gm's or are you going to tolerate some people bot-vending if they are a member of/in public section 9?

I know you're talking about me, so let me say up front that I don't bot my characters and I have never botted my characters. While I appreciate your curiosity, I find your method of expressing it objectionable. When you don't understand something, the appropriate question is "how do you do XXXXX?", not "are certain people allowed to use illegal programs?"

Now, there are two separate issues so I'll address them separately.


---


First, how did I set up my vends so soon after they sold out?

Answer: I have everything set up so that I know how my shops are doing at a glance, and I normally glance over every few minutes when I'm at the computer (which is most of the day since I do all my work there too). If my shops sell out, I'll often know about it within minutes.

But wasn't this too much of a coincidence? No, not really. If you think so, you're committing the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. At the very least, you're ignoring two key pieces of data:
1. all the times I checked on my vends but didn't need to take action (this is what happens most of the time)
2. all the times my vends sold out but didn't go back up in a timely manner (because I was afk/sleeping/particularly busy with something/whatever)

Ironically, there's an example of the latter not long after the time you referenced. This is the incident you described:
- At 1:20pm (according to ragial's logs) I was down to one vend. I'd been dragging my feet at going to sleep.
- Sometime after 1:42pm, this vend sold out. I presume you were the one who bought it out, considering the timestamp of your locked topic.
- Between 1:46pm and 1:48pm, I sprang into action, restocking all four vends, and also putting up my 3rd buy shop which I only do when I'm planning to be away for a while.
- Then I went to sleep.

And after that:
- All four vends sold out between 4:32pm and 4:39pm.

And after that:
- ..... nothing. They remained sold out until 8:37pm when I woke up. If I were really botting vends, do you think I'd allow them to go unstocked for four hours?

Also feel free to interrogate anyone who's ever complained about my shops being sold out. The bottom line is that when you consider all of the data, and not just a few points that were cherry-picked to fit some preconceived notion, you'll see that there is really nothing remarkable about what I'm doing.


---


Second, how did I set up four vends instantly?

Answer: It was not instant, but I did put them up very quickly one after another, so it might have appeared instant if you weren't paying attention. To do this I set up each vend until the point where I'd normally click OK, but instead of doing that I move on to the next vend. After all four are ready, I move the mouse over the OK button and then... click, alt+esc, click, alt+esc, click, alt+esc, click. For those who don't know, alt+esc is an obscure shortcut key that lets you cycle through windows efficiently--perfect for this task.

(Why do I do this? If I set up vends the normal way while there's an active buyer, there's a good chance the first shops will be sold out before I'm done with the entire process. Being a little OCD, I'd notice this and feel compelled to redo the vends. By putting up all the vends nearly instantly, I can high-tail it out of the room (in this case, to bed) without giving them a chance to place me in that situation.)

Don't take my word for it though. Here's a video:

A few notes first:
1. Due to poor lighting, the character sprites are too dark, so you can't see them standing up for an instant to cast vend. Sorry about that.
2. I have a macro that expands one keystroke to "Ren's slims{TAB}4500" and you can see it being used here. This is 100% legal and (I think most would agree) not a significant advantage.
3. The only place I could put the camera was where my mouse usually is. So I had to do all of this while my mouse was in an awkward position, and that's why the whole thing looks clumsier than usual.
4. This time I didn't start from four empty vends; one shop had 5050 and another had 5250. I took extra time to equalize their inventories; otherwise, it would have been quicker.
5. The part where the shops actually go up starts at 1:02.




---


Conclusion: This is an excellent example of why you shouldn't jump to conclusions.
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#137 HunYahiko

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:20 AM

How can you work in that noise? Sounds like a boeing 747 engine to me. :ph34r:


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#138 renouille

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:25 AM

How can you work in that noise? Sounds like a boeing 747 engine to me. :ph34r:

The camera was near a large case fan. It's not really that loud.
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#139 BookishBrenda

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:26 AM

Oh well, I guess that settles it...

Drama averted. :p_sad:


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#140 kingarthur6687

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:32 AM

TL;DR

So according to Inu's post (long since nuked by Camp, probably rightfully so) you guys are tired of all the accusations you get and the CMs/GMs doing nothing.

In this instance I've seen:
1. Camp and Oda edited and locked the thread in question, as appropriate.
2. Oda appropriately directed TheQuietStorm to submit tickets if he suspects foul play, where any evidence can be properly examined, and to not continue this matter on the forums.
3. Camp reined in Inu's uncalled attacks on TheQuietStorm after Oda had handled the matter, nuking the posts and admitting that Inu was in the wrong for lashing out.

And yet you are still grilling TheQuietStorm after appropriate action was taken, many times in fact. What are you finding insufficient in how Oda and Camp handled this matter? It's the job of the GMs who will hopefully be handling TheQuietStorm's ticket to prove your innocence, what is it that you are trying to accomplish with these postings?

Frankly as far as I can tell, you guys are failing and don't know how to zone yourselves out from irrelevant noise. Especially since this incident was already handled by Oda/Camp and pending proper closure by the GMs; what is your (and Inu's) problem?
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#141 BookishBrenda

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:38 AM

Oh yay, drama again. :p_laugh:


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#142 kingarthur6687

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:48 AM

Oh yay, drama again. :p_laugh:

I'm just seriously perplexed what Section 9 is trying to accomplish here, since the matter was already handled and closed by Oda and Camp.

Ren's posts (and Inu's posts which were deleted) are just beating a dead horse so far as I can manage to tell.
dead-horse.gif
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#143 Rayea

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 01:50 AM

From what I have seen on these forums, volunteers often feel undefended in the face of these accusations. It seems they would prefer the staff to report the result of their investigation if they are innocent.

 

I like the video Renouille posted, I learned something. And if people can clarify the issue between themselves that is much less work for the GMs.


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#144 BookishBrenda

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 02:10 AM

Ren's posts (and Inu's posts which were deleted) are just beating a dead horse so far as I can manage to tell.

Oh no! :p_omg:  I haven't even read Inubashiri's post...  :p_cry: 

 

Campitor was quick to remove any .. ahem .. 'offending' post. Even one of mine...

 

Did you read Campitor's post? he's like... ♫ You don't want no drama. No no drama ♫

 

And I'm like... Hello~ What do you think I come here for... :p_ang:


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#145 renouille

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 02:15 AM

So according to Inu's post (long since nuked by Camp, probably rightfully so) you guys are tired of all the accusations you get and the CMs/GMs doing nothing.

In this instance I've seen:
1. Camp and Oda edited and locked the thread in question, as appropriate.
2. Oda appropriately directed TheQuietStorm to submit tickets if he suspects foul play, where any evidence can be properly examined, and to not continue this matter on the forums.
3. Camp reined in Inu's uncalled attacks on TheQuietStorm after Oda had handled the matter, nuking the posts and admitting that Inu was in the wrong for lashing out.

And yet you are still grilling TheQuietStorm after appropriate action was taken, many times in fact. What are you finding insufficient in how Oda and Camp handled this matter? It's the job of the GMs who will hopefully be handling TheQuietStorm's ticket to prove your innocence, what is it that you are trying to accomplish with these postings?

Frankly as far as I can tell, you guys are failing and don't know how to zone yourselves out from irrelevant noise. Especially since this incident was already handled by Oda/Camp and pending proper closure by the GMs; what is your (and Inu's) problem?

1. Inu does not speak for me.
2. Inu lashing out has nothing to do with me. I have not lashed out at anyone, and I refuse to be held responsible for Inu's tantrums.
3. In no way did I grill anyone. You need to stop taking my posts the wrong way.

What am I finding insufficient in how Oda and Camp handled this matter?
They allowed the accusation to remain, and in such a way that there is no doubt about the identity of the accused. If the investigation proceeds as expected, it will be closed for lack of evidence. How do you think the people who have been making the accusations will react to that? (hint.) As someone who has more information than the GMs do about my particular setup, I consider it my duty to share this information in order to dispel the myths that have popped up.

What am I trying to accomplish?
To enlighten those who are genuinely curious about the situation. I know a few people have already made up their minds and won't be convinced by any amount of evidence. My post isn't for them. It's for that silent majority who might otherwise be unduly swayed by the accusations were I to remain silent about this matter.

Your hatred of me (or more accurately a caricature evoked by my alias) has reached such a level that you can no longer distinguish between impassive, informational writing (of which my post was an example) and angry personal attacks. My problem is simple: there are a few people spreading untruths about me--some maliciously, others less so. I don't know what your (and Inu's) problem is and I don't want to know.
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#146 Demeris

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 02:59 AM

Hi, old player here, since 2003.

Ren has been vending slims for years. And she has been very famously known to be the number one ranked alchemist since I've been playing throughout the server merges.

If you think the GMs would let someone famous like her get away with cheating, then you might need to re-evaluate your line of thinking.

I can understand being envious of someone's achievements, but accusing them of cheating (especially after being around for a LONG time) is childish and only shows off one's own insecurity.


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#147 BookishBrenda

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 03:05 AM

They allowed the accusation to remain, and in such a way that there is no doubt about the identity of the accused.

 

It was immediately clear to me that TheQuietStorm was talking about you... I'm sure others figured it out (almost) instantly as well. (I'm referring to the unedited -now closed- topic)

 

I pondered on whether to inform you (to get the conflict going), but preferred to let the drama evolve organically. :shss:


Edited by BookishBrenda, 06 January 2016 - 07:27 AM.

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#148 kingarthur6687

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:39 AM

1. Inu does not speak for me.
2. Inu lashing out has nothing to do with me. I have not lashed out at anyone, and I refuse to be held responsible for Inu's tantrums.

My apologies, Inu had worded her posts in such a way as to imply she was speaking both for herself and on behalf of Section 9. If you state that Inu's actions are her own thing then that's fine and I'm not about to argue that point.
 

3. In no way did I grill anyone. You need to stop taking my posts the wrong way.

Perhaps I read between the lines, but I personally sensed quite a bit of aggrevation from that final quip about not jumping to conclusions. Especially since this was after the matter was closed. Oh well.
 

What am I finding insufficient in how Oda and Camp handled this matter?
They allowed the accusation to remain, and in such a way that there is no doubt about the identity of the accused. If the investigation proceeds as expected, it will be closed for lack of evidence. How do you think the people who have been making the accusations will react to that? (hint.) As someone who has more information than the GMs do about my particular setup, I consider it my duty to share this information in order to dispel the myths that have popped up.

The post you reference is an inquiry about whether a certain act is legal, it's not an accusation. Furthermore, the post does not contain any specific names. Sure, "named condensed white potions" and "4 vends" could possibly be implied to be you, but plausible deniability is that that implication could be about anyone. There is no reason to remove that post because it does not break any rules, it is an inquiry and it does not call anyone out.
 

What am I trying to accomplish?
To enlighten those who are genuinely curious about the situation. I know a few people have already made up their minds and won't be convinced by any amount of evidence. My post isn't for them. It's for that silent majority who might otherwise be unduly swayed by the accusations were I to remain silent about this matter.

Your hatred of me (or more accurately a caricature evoked by my alias) has reached such a level that you can no longer distinguish between impassive, informational writing (of which my post was an example) and angry personal attacks. My problem is simple: there are a few people spreading untruths about me--some maliciously, others less so. I don't know what your (and Inu's) problem is and I don't want to know.

While I'm not sure if "hatred" would be the right word you are correct in presuming that I don't like you, but let me make it clear that it is not for any suspicions or presumptions I might have about your behavior in-game. If you were by any chance under the impression that I disliked you because of the accusations you speak of, you would be wrong.

If we could put that aside for just a moment though, could I make a humble suggestion that you make a pinned thread here in the RO1 Community Chat sub-forum explaining your setup for "the genuinely curious" and the "silent majority" as you said?

If your goal is to widely inform people about how baseless the accusations you speak of are, it would be far more visible than a random post directed specifically at an individual and it would save you time in re-typing everything for the nth time. It would also project a better image of yourself to take action preemptively rather than to come in after the fact explaining your legitimacy, especially in cases like this where you (and Inu also, for what it's worth) came in after the matter was already appropriately handled and closed.

P.S. Don't take my quoting your post as "TL;DR" the wrong way, just in case you happened to do so. I already read one of your previous posts detailing that subject so I am already aware what you wrote about. I just couldn't be arsed to quote the entire thing and waste screen real estate, not quoting the post to reference on the other hand would lose the context of my post and would have made for bad flow of discussion. ┐( ̄ー ̄)┌
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#149 WolfTri

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 05:56 AM

So according to Inu's post (long since nuked by Camp, probably rightfully so) you guys are tired of all the accusations you get and the CMs/GMs doing nothing.

In this instance I've seen:
1. Camp and Oda edited and locked the thread in question, as appropriate.
2. Oda appropriately directed TheQuietStorm to submit tickets if he suspects foul play, where any evidence can be properly examined, and to not continue this matter on the forums.
3. Camp reined in Inu's uncalled attacks on TheQuietStorm after Oda had handled the matter, nuking the posts and admitting that Inu was in the wrong for lashing out.

And yet you are still grilling TheQuietStorm after appropriate action was taken, many times in fact. What are you finding insufficient in how Oda and Camp handled this matter? It's the job of the GMs who will hopefully be handling TheQuietStorm's ticket to prove your innocence, what is it that you are trying to accomplish with these postings?

Frankly as far as I can tell, you guys are failing and don't know how to zone yourselves out from irrelevant noise. Especially since this incident was already handled by Oda/Camp and pending proper closure by the GMs; what is your (and Inu's) problem?

Pretty straightforward. I was one of the people who hadn't seen TheQuietStorm's thread before it had been locked. Obviously I knew who he was referring to, and I had no idea of his accusations or the responses to such. (Also clueless about Inu lashing out or w/e). So the response from ren here was pretty enlightening, and doesn't seem out of place. I'd say it was necessary to defend their stance rather than leave the accusation alone. Audi alteram partem.


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#150 TheQuietStorm

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 06:50 AM

It is not allowed, if you suspect a user-even a volunteer of using an illegal program to vend please send in a report. Posting accusations on the forums=/=proof that wrongdoing is taking place which is why callout threads and posts aren't allowed. 

 

 

Oda has already addressed the user in question regarding the report that causing strife between you two. Although Inubashiri is wrong in attacking the user in question, it is somewhat understandable as the original post and the post that I edited originally both directly accused Inubashiri and their friend. TheQuietStorm has been around long enough to know that accusatory posts are not allowed on the forums. Usually such posts are made merely to cause undue distress to the victim. So it is understandable that a person being directly targeted in such a way would want to lash out.

 

As always if you believe a person is cheating it is important to let the GM team know at https://support.warpportal.com. Do not post it on the forums. Continued attempts to do so can result in account suspension/loss of forum access. 

 

I have removed the posts that are causing more strife than they are worth.

 

I wasn't naming anyone; I noticed something - I asked a question about it since it wasnt clearly stated in this thread; perhaps I shouldnt've made a thread; but should have asked my question here.  I didn't name anyone, I understand why you edit my second post to the thread as it ambigiously could point to the user in question.. 

in my humble opinion, the way Inu reacted was uncalled for.. 

 

 

 

I know you're talking about me, so let me say up front that I don't bot my characters and I have never botted my characters. While I appreciate your curiosity, I find your method of expressing it objectionable. When you don't understand something, the appropriate question is "how do you do XXXXX?", not "are certain people allowed to use illegal programs?"

Now, there are two separate issues so I'll address them separately.


-
...Lots of words..

 

I know what I saw; I send in a ticket after campitor/oda told me to do so, and if GMs are happy with your explaination if they do an "investigation"  then, who am I to complain? to me, the way I saw how things gone - 4 stores came online immediately at the same time - there was no minisecond pause in what I saw.. hence my WHOA.  Again, if GMs are happy about it, who am i in the grand scheme of things..

 

Pretty straightforward. I was one of the people who hadn't seen TheQuietStorm's thread before it had been locked. Obviously I knew who he was referring to, and I had no idea of his accusations or the responses to such. (Also clueless about Inu lashing out or w/e). So the response from ren here was pretty enlightening, and doesn't seem out of place. I'd say it was necessary to defend their stance rather than leave the accusation alone. Audi alteram partem.

 

 

I am a she.


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