394 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

I was thinking that a good idea would be to remove increase weight limit, disable kafra items in WoE maps*, and disable all god items, mvp cards, and miniboss cards in all WoE situations, and then hold an annual gvg tournament which features no-items-barred battles using each player's own character (as opposed to the fabricated ones used in rwc).  The reward to the victors being some rare prize to be decided upon.

 

This would even out the standard WoE scene while still providing incentive for players and guilds to make god items and accumulate mvp gear.

 

Additionally, both classic and renewal servers should require a subscription.  The method for this subscription should be such that a person is simply required to buy kafra points and in return their account is automatically registered for a certain number of months, weeks, or days.  To be clear, KP purchased should not need to be used to activate the playtime, but the playtime is simply activated by the purchase itself.  Naturally, this eliminates the need for a VIP system.

 

This required purchase acts as a gateway for more purchases, because every player will have some KP to spend on some kafra shop items as a result of their requisite purchase.  Their expenditure of KP will ideally lead to some sort of addicting experience, whether that be upgrading, increased ExP, the value of life insurance, drop rates, or rental gear.  With all players by default having this opportunity, revenues from such sales should increase.

 

The reason not to fear subscription models is the result of the fact that RO is a MMORPG, not a MOBA.  A moba offers everything an MMORPG offers in an hour or less.  The essential part of MMOs is revealed when you invert this idea.  An MMORPG offers everything a MOBA offers over an extended duration.  The duration is key, because it means that the actual playerbase you have will come back again and again, because it is the continuity they desire.  This draw is something that mmorpgs can and should monetize.  Even if the cost of subscription is insignificant, paying it gives the player a feeling of ownership of their character (regardless of whether or not the EULA says otherwise).  If you want facts, here's one.  People invest more in the things they own than things they rent or get for free.

 

As an aside to the mention of the differences between mobas and mmorpgs, the fact that progression in an mmorpg means it takes time to accumulate gear is not an excuse for that gear to be completely overpowered.  At it's core, the attractiveness of an mmorpg is the continuity of the game.  Gear and level progression as a mechanic are identical to those in any moba (as it would be, since the moba genre ripped those mechanics straight from the mmo playbook) just much slower.  Unbalanced items are not excusable regardless of whether it takes 30 minutes or 30 weeks to farm it.

 

*removing increase weight from kafra shop comes with an across the board gift of KP equivalent to the cost of the scrolls.

 

k

[AmericanPie]

Nerfing won't settle a thing. There's always ways to overcome it.

It's people hard work. Owning it is because simply u're more hardworking/lucky than others.

Why the server reset?

 

I like GTB users, they can't be hit with magic but gfist can kill them. 

Hide, snap or whatever can avoid OP matk.

 

It's the game play, as international server, don't tailor-made it to suit each and everyone request.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I was thinking that a good idea would be to remove increase weight limit, disable kafra items in WoE maps*, and disable all god items, mvp cards, and miniboss cards in all WoE situations, and then hold an annual gvg tournament which features no-items-barred battles using each player's own character (as opposed to the fabricated ones used in rwc).  The reward to the victors being some rare prize to be decided upon.

 

This would even out the standard WoE scene while still providing incentive for players and guilds to make god items and accumulate mvp gear.

 

Additionally, both classic and renewal servers should require a subscription.  The method for this subscription should be such that a person is simply required to buy kafra points and in return their account is automatically registered for a certain number of months, weeks, or days.  To be clear, KP purchased should not need to be used to activate the playtime, but the playtime is simply activated by the purchase itself.  Naturally, this eliminates the need for a VIP system.

 

This required purchase acts as a gateway for more purchases, because every player will have some KP to spend on some kafra shop items as a result of their requisite purchase.  Their expenditure of KP will ideally lead to some sort of addicting experience, whether that be upgrading, increased ExP, the value of life insurance, drop rates, or rental gear.  With all players by default having this opportunity, revenues from such sales should increase.

 

The reason not to fear subscription models is the result of the fact that RO is a MMORPG, not a MOBA.  A moba offers everything an MMORPG offers in an hour or less.  The essential part of MMOs is revealed when you invert this idea.  An MMORPG offers everything a MOBA offers over an extended duration.  The duration is key, because it means that the actual playerbase you have will come back again and again, because it is the continuity they desire.  This draw is something that mmorpgs can and should monetize.  Even if the cost of subscription is insignificant, paying it gives the player a feeling of ownership of their character (regardless of whether or not the EULA says otherwise).  If you want facts, here's one.  People invest more in the things they own than things they rent or get for free.

 

As an aside to the mention of the differences between mobas and mmorpgs, the fact that progression in an mmorpg means it takes time to accumulate gear is not an excuse for that gear to be completely overpowered.  At it's core, the attractiveness of an mmorpg is the continuity of the game.  Gear and level progression as a mechanic are identical to those in any moba (as it would be, since the moba genre ripped those mechanics straight from the mmo playbook) just much slower.  Unbalanced items are not excusable regardless of whether it takes 30 minutes or 30 weeks to farm it.

 

*removing increase weight from kafra shop comes with an across the board gift of KP equivalent to the cost of the scrolls.

 

- I'd be fine with removing Increase Weight Limit in general and Kafra Scrolls from WoE zones tbh. I expect barely anyone will agree though. They have quite a significant impact on the way fights play out and many people will not be happy with their removal, but it would be a positive change overall. It would probably just encourage more alting, but w/e.

 

- I disagree with blanket prohibition of all Gods, MVPs and Minis. Their effects need to be looked at individually since many of them are benign, and some are all but a necessity - especially the more defensive ones such as GR, Asprika, etc - in Trans GvGs due to the insane damage people are currently able to put out, due to Cash Shop shenanigans stacking on top of what was once a fairly balanced item set, barring one or two exceptional, offensively-oriented MVPs that were always "OP" such as FBH. I'd like to see the return of stun as a thing in WoE as well (no more 1 VIT wonders stacked with % stun resist or minmaxers with OH on), though it's just my MS main talking there ;p

 

Also if it was up to me I'd purge all slotted mids from the server forever. Reimburse owners with KP or something, idc, just get rid of them. One card in Top only.

 

- The Classic Sakray server was put up in part to facilitate tournament play. I don't think tourneys on Loki would be a very good idea at all, since the potential for abuse would be astronomically high. People can make their own characters according to regs on Sakray anyway, and players can run PvP events on Loki with little prizes if they want. Official tourneys with high stakes and valuable prizes on the main server though? Absolutely not.

 

- VIP + KP conversion is already a thing, and practically everyone uses it o.o

 

Tethering full-on subs to microtransactions would be completely idiotic though, as people are wary to touch games nowadays that block game-time behind a paywall - despite the fact that they would have happily purchased the odd thing or two from the Cash Shop without that next level of incentivisation. People have been too heavily conditioned by the industry's F2P model.

 

There's currently no justification for subs in RO anyway, regardless of whether or not they consider reimplementing it, as the devs cannot promise future content, features, reliable uptime, or even so much as world persistence given how terrible Classic's prospects are with its hateful community and rapidly dwindling active population. WP's low profits recently make it even less of a wise investment.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 01 December 2015 - 08:18 PM.

[Kebtung]

It's the game play, as international server, don't tailor-made it to suit each and everyone request.

 

Clearly some group of people want the server goes in direction of their desire.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Clearly some group of people want the server goes in direction of their desire.

 

Option 3 sounds good. Nerf the effect of OP items in WoE scene only.

So should I take it that you've forfeit your previous opinion since you would also like to see the server's WoE scene change from what it currently is?

 

Or are you also referring to yourself with that statement.

 

Or do you only make statements to bash specific subsets of users, ignoring whether your statements also affect you, or just forgetting that you've previously expressed an opinion o.o

 

The latter would be funny because goldfish.

[Xellie]

lol

[Kebtung]

Originally I didn't want things to be nerfed.

But as I see you guys are so desperately edging for it. And in the end, you always get what you want.

Option 3 looks least worst for me. So I have my voice.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Originally I didn't want things to be nerfed.

But as I see you guys are so desperately edging for it. And in the end, you always get what you want.

Option 3 looks least worst for me. So I have my voice.

 

"Always get what we want".

 

See:

• God creation quest reversion: Denied.
• Decreased proliferation of SP items to prevent the infinite SP situation we currently have: Denied.
• Removal of frags from GSB: Denied.
• GSBs for TI rewards to encourage max-level partying: Denied.
• Make castle loots unaffected by drop boosts: Denied.
• TIs for all the outdated loots from treasure and useless cards from OCAs: Denied.
• Non-Trans WoE: Denied.
• Slotted Mids to be MVP drops to make them less P2W: Denied.

And what we did get:

• Juperos TI
• Return of the AL and ID TIs
• Batholians
• Sittable benches

[Xellie]

Sleipnir buff

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Sleipnir buff

 

Always and forever denied :c

 

350 weight Variants till the end of time.

[Kebtung]

Always and forever denied :c

 

Don't give up. Keep edging. Make a thread once in a while.

[Xellie]

lol why?

 

 

50 mdef was clearly a solid idea

[Xellie]

A discussion by very definition means that two sides exchange ideas, some of which will probably not agree with eachother. The problems arise when one or both parties behave inappropriately or do not add relevant material to the discussion or try to get it shut down.

 

Not agreeing with someone is not reason to "attack" and is not an "attack" nor is it reason to not discuss and explore all potential options.

 

If the only reason to say that I should not be allowed to participate in a balance discussion is because of a perceived bias toward items, that is a/ denying an entire side of the discussion and b/ childish.

 

I guess this whole thread has proved if nothing that Classic (or one "side" of Classic) is incapable of talking about it's future in a mature manner.

What makes me laugh most is the people who complain about the results of said discussions or ideas put out and complains then in other threads about people suggesting things without ever putting forward their own idea/thoughts in a reasonable manner. I mean come on now really.

 

Most of my guild... and most guilds refuse to post. Not because of me and my behaviour, but because of the way people react to me when I speak out not agreeing with "gvg oriented changes" - since many guilds do not take part in that stuff. Most want to kawaii it up and precast the door and stuff. 

 

If anything is to change, that should probably be addressed. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be a large guildleader after seeing what gets thrown at those people. We all want competition but it won't happen in this atmosphere no matter what changes are made to the game.

 

 

[VModCinnamon]

After reading most of this, I think Campitor shouldn't permit Xellie and certain others to post on balance threads.

 

A comment like that is not really helpful to the discussion.

[Mischelle]

A discussion by very definition means that two sides exchange ideas, some of which will probably not agree with eachother. The problems arise when one or both parties behave inappropriately or do not add relevant material to the discussion or try to get it shut down.

 

Not agreeing with someone is not reason to "attack" and is not an "attack" nor is it reason to not discuss and explore all potential options.

 

If the only reason to say that I should not be allowed to participate in a balance discussion is because of a perceived bias toward items, that is a/ denying an entire side of the discussion and b/ childish.

 

I guess this whole thread has proved if nothing that Classic (or one "side" of Classic) is incapable of talking about it's future in a mature manner.

What makes me laugh most is the people who complain about the results of said discussions or ideas put out and complains then in other threads about people suggesting things without ever putting forward their own idea/thoughts in a reasonable manner. I mean come on now really.

 

Most of my guild... and most guilds refuse to post. Not because of me and my behaviour, but because of the way people react to me when I speak out not agreeing with "gvg oriented changes" - since many guilds do not take part in that stuff. Most want to kawaii it up and precast the door and stuff. 

 

If anything is to change, that should probably be addressed. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be a large guildleader after seeing what gets thrown at those people. We all want competition but it won't happen in this atmosphere no matter what changes are made to the game.

 

k
 

[AlmrOfAtlas]

k

 

Did you think that up all by yourself?

[Tora]

A comment like that is not really helpful to the discussion.

 

I wasn't adding anything to the discussion but I don't think their ideas, or lack of, do anything to improve the game or are fun. They continue to discuss semantics and accolades rather than assist the GM's with more useful thoughts. Like single word posts telling one-another "k" after one gives their own insights and I include AlmrOfAtlas who just attacks players with macro images.

 

I love this game, it's one of my favorite games, I've been playing on iRO since 2003 and I stuck for the WoE scene throughout most of the servers even between Classic and Renewal. I really want this game to continue to be fun and popular for old and new players a like. I'm always looking forward to new balance changes in skills and stats, and create a new meta that is fun to explore. So, I'm sorry for hurting some people's feelings, but I just think we need some other player's thoughts and ideas in the discussion that can offer ways to modernize this game and not just make minor tweaks here and there that doesn't change the status quo or sarcastically cry over the merits of a bad idea. I do want to see a healthy future for the game.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Yes attacking people is literally all I ever do. Please disregard the years of content I've posted on these forums on this account and others, and many constructive posts I've made about this particular subject if you want to keep it current.

 

Let's see what you've contributed on the other hand... Oh that remark about Xellie was literally the first thing you said in this thread, and the first post you've made in 6 months lol.

 

You sound just like Sean, trolling and then crying foul when people call you out, then tacking something tenuously relevant to whatever topic is being discussed to the end of your post in order to make it seem admissable and to justify your previous inflammatory comments.

 

Also you started it broseph.

[Xellie]

I wasn't adding anything to the discussion but I don't think their ideas, or lack of, do anything to improve the game or are fun. They continue to discuss semantics and accolades rather than assist the GM's with more useful thoughts. Like single word posts telling one-another "k" after one gives their own insights and I include AlmrOfAtlas who just attacks players with macro images.

 

I love this game, it's one of my favorite games, I've been playing on iRO since 2003 and I stuck for the WoE scene throughout most of the servers even between Classic and Renewal. I really want this game to continue to be fun and popular for old and new players a like. I'm always looking forward to new balance changes in skills and stats, and create a new meta that is fun to explore. So, I'm sorry for hurting some people's feelings, but I just think we need some other player's thoughts and ideas in the discussion that can offer ways to modernize this game and not just make minor tweaks here and there that doesn't change the status quo or sarcastically cry over the merits of a bad idea. I do want to see a healthy future for the game.

 

Perhaps you or your upvote minion would like to make some contributions/suggestions of your own then? (speaking of more players opinions being needed)

Derailing the topic like this is not going to help, especially after a moderator asked for it to be stopped.

 

I for one think exploring the idea of a WoE TE is great, but there needs to be serious thought given on how to prevent it being dominated only by the current established groups (god items are clearly not enough of a draw away given how few are made) - and with that lays a lot of chatter not only about catering the server to items that clearly were never designed with some of the equip/population issues that are present in mind, but also problems with the community.

 

I am but one player posting on the side of many. I share a lot of your concerns regarding the thread becoming nothing but personal attacks and zerging and trolling. However, even if people disagree, there are many different ways to play this game. That is why it is a discussion.

My guild have pretty much all been driven from the forums due to staff/community behaviour. If I do not post they basically have no representative and everyone else in this thread is almost exclusively from one alliance.

 

Lets be real here.

[seanq]

but was i trolling? one side's opinion too op. 

 

keep my name out of your posts please. kthx

 

back into my troll nest.

 

 

VModCinnamon:

User has been suspended permanently, again.

Edited by VModCinnamon, 02 December 2015 - 11:05 PM.
Added mod notice.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Speak of the devil. Hello again, guy who was permabanned but keeps recreating accounts. What's this your 5th?

[seanq]

^ nice contribution

 

poor Tora, your words mean nothing. you'll never match up to their massive contribution

Edited by seanq, 02 December 2015 - 10:50 PM.

[Myzery]

Is that even Sean?
Wasn't he going to be banned in game if he evaded on the forums again?

[AlmrOfAtlas]

That was supposed to happen 2 accounts ago lol

 

Guy gets away with more than Lazarus '-'

[Ecclesio]

Perhaps you or your upvote minion would like to make some contributions/suggestions of your own then? (speaking of more players opinions being needed)

Derailing the topic like this is not going to help, especially after a moderator asked for it to be stopped.

 

I'm not interested in discussing WoE related improvements in your presence. I could explain further, but I'd get modded for not being "helpful."