394 replies to this topic

[Undying]

Nothing needs to be nerfed. 

 

Put in WoE: TE and then focus efforts onto increasing the server population (via guild starter packages, make potting easier/faster, new BG, new content, ACTUAL ADVERTISEMENT, reduce the server side lag, ect).

 

[Rockerox]

Then easier.

 

we support the decision given by the CM Campitor option

 

is good idea.

 

2. Remove Items God and MVP cards from WoE (1.0 - 2.0 - TE) - This is an extreme measure That will punish players based WHO builds These items completely around.

 

 

  Remove Items God and MVP cards from WoE (woe 1.0,woe 2.0 and  woe TE  )

 

It is better for there to be a balance, and not much power abuser.

. excellent idea. well done Campitor support you.

 

See by ordinary people. not by the power abuser.

 

Not all start from level 175, with MVPs card. let's go to our roots, our friends start

[Kebtung]

dude this is not renewal...

[schia]

Nothing needs to be nerfed. 

 

Put in WoE: TE and then focus efforts onto increasing the server population (via guild starter packages, make potting easier/faster, new BG, new content, ACTUAL ADVERTISEMENT, reduce the server side lag, ect).

 

guild starter packages: abusable

Potting easier: just have a vending machine that converts mats at a 90% rate in the batches of 200s.  Have it take zeny per use based on raw material costs to save even more time.  IE, input 200 starsands + 210k = 180 slims.  Or buttload of random junk = 180 grenade bottles.  Also have a feature that converts bombs/coats into generic unnamed stuff so they stack easier.

New bg: lol

new content: lol

actual advertisement: warportal unwilling to commit money into things they will not see an immediate return.  Also, holiday season should be their best timeframe for revenue, so it is doubtful they will even have the money for ads until after christmas, which is too late by then anyway.

reduce serverside lag: needs better/more hardware, see ^

[Ambur]

If they nerf FBH, they need to nerf GTB. Otherwise, nerf neither. The suggestion they do one but not the other is pretty selfish. Both cards are OP.

[Nathy]

Nothing needs to be nerfed. 

 

Put in WoE: TE and then focus efforts onto increasing the server population (via guild starter packages, make potting easier/faster, new BG, new content, ACTUAL ADVERTISEMENT, reduce the server side lag, ect).

 

Yep. Nothing does really need to change.. As I've said, if one thing is change, then everyone will scream for this and that to be changed... Maybe reducing the castles available.. There's simply too many for the amount of players.

 

As for the other stuff. I don't think they're capable/allowed to do most of those things. But they definitely need to do something with BG and Gpacks would be good too and it is definitely something that can't be abused if they note ips.. as for the lag. I've found the server to be a little more fluid since the server move. But as everyone still needs to pay for a tunneling service to reduce the lag its still dog sh*t

[rojoky113]

No.. Just you, and rojokywhateverthenameis and the rest of vh c:

Again to point out: No fbh was used last woe. Find something else to nerf.

You really seem more concerned about what you want to hear so you can reply like a smart-_- to people you don't like than using reading comprehension with what people actually say. Last I checked my stance is I agree fbh is kinda stupid powerful, my personal opinion is mindbreak is just kinda stupid, but my stance was in general I don't think mvps and gods should be nerfed and maybe keep an eye on fbh or if magic damage IS a problem consider making mindbreak more reasonable than the absurd debuff turned amazing buff you have to use an "enemy" to cast on you it is. But focus should be on what classic actually needs, pretty much exactly what undying said, not debate over nerfing hibrams. Sounds to me like we are more on the same page than not.

Take one 1.0 realm and 2 of each 2.0 realm castles, use them both at the same time for TE woe with no mvps and gods. I'm ok with minis, gr and dr help counteract the champ and bomb heavy meta (and promotes teamwork to counter) and mp removal would make ninja a little too strong and give too much advantage to the not insignificant number of people using mp hack.

Make 1.0 TE drops appealing to up and coming guilds, 2.0 TE drops appealing to established guilds. That combined with there being established players wanting a mvp and godless gvg woe meta who prefer 2.0 means new growing guilds get more breathing room in 1.0 while bigger established guilds fight each other over 2.0.

Bonus points for no alliances in TE.

Normal woes then also have the castle reduction that people want. And more bonus points for overhauling god creation (make 2.0 gods require multiple pieces, make 1.0 god pieces more rare and tie creation competition more to woe than tedious rolling of seals with armies of level 70 tkms).

Then focus on new content, new TIs, new bgs, things that will draw in and keep new players and encourage them to interact with experienced ones and experience and learn about the game.

Server reset, revoking cash shop items that tons of people have paid for and want, etc. These are not realistic things to expect an official server run by an actual company in the position classic is in to do. Instead of insisting on or lamenting that, shouldn't we focus on what they can and will actually do to revitalize classic? If you have an actual investment in this server and playing on it, that should be a yes. So can we try to shift the conversation that way in a positive and constructive manner?

Edited by rojoky113, 01 December 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Undying]

Is WoE; Training Edition even viable or are we/I just wasting breath? (staff question)

 

If we have learned one thing from this thread, seems like the majority (not all) of the players want a 1 hour long WoE with no gods/mvps/minis. Plus WoE:TE is great to attract *maybe* some other players from "other places". However, more would have to change then just adding that WoE. See my points pages back for other major things.

 

 

Edit: Link for WoE:PE or TE w/e.   https://forums.warpp...tion/?p=2100587

 

There are guild leaders there posting they could bring a 20 person guild ^. Seeing as how we have like an AT MOST pop of ~100 active players in WoE (avg), that alone is a 20% increase in the WoE population. 

Edited by Undying, 01 December 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[rojoky113]

I think from what I have heard people around say, the server is currently limited to two woes a week until kro gives them a change, but they can run them more than once or something? Basically that it may be possible now but kinda obnoxious to do. But thats definitely something that needs staff clarification instead of hearsay.

I think that was why my original suggestion was 1.0 and 2.0 active at the same time, so there is normal woe and TE woe, and what they are able to do is deactivate the entrances to castles they don't want use. Then they can run the normal woe twice and TE once. Also, I suggested normal woe wed and sat and TE friday night to keep from burnout from woe three days in a row, keeping econs down by letting them break more often midweek (cause what are the chances of them doing anything else to counter the huge amount of econ growth), and also to give TE woe the best time slot for being most accessable especially by time zones that currently have trouble attending.

Considering the backing of TE by most of the normal divided opinions of different groups here, I think its something they need to work on if it is at all possible for them.

Edited by rojoky113, 01 December 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[Oda]

In the past when we have tried to create new WoE times, it has not triggered the emps and portals turning on properly. While we can change the WoE times around, the game itself only wants to do the two specific WoEs and won't recognize additional times being added. 

 

It may be possible to piggyback on an existing WoE time to trigger a castle turning on and have it governed by different rules, theoretically making a Classic WoE TE possible but we need to work on that for the test server. 

[Rockerox]

In the past when we have tried to create new WoE times, it has not triggered the emps and portals turning on properly. While we can change the WoE times around, the game itself only wants to do the two specific WoEs and won't recognize additional times being added. 

 

It may be possible to piggyback on an existing WoE time to trigger a castle turning on and have it governed by different rules, theoretically making a Classic WoE TE possible but we need to work on that for the test server. 

As one can enter the test server ??

I would like to do some tests on woe, ie without using MVP card, not god items. you know . to tell my friends who also come to test. I think it should be removed from the woe, the MVP card and god item. Players no longer have to power abuser. Briefly almost immortal. it's like a little unfair that only one player who is full of MVPs and god item. can kill 30 players level 175 as anything. just to have better MVPs card and stuff. It understands what I mean. while I think would be a better woe. egalitarian. peliar ie with the same and that only the skill of the best is awarded. I think the same could put a restriction on the maximum guild example to have two woe castle for a guild. and they can try to have more (that's something extra)

[needmorezleep]

 

As one can enter the test server ??

I would like to do some tests on woe, ie without using MVP card, not god items. you know . to tell my friends who also come to test. I think it should be removed from the woe, the MVP card and god item. Players no longer have to power abuser. Briefly almost immortal. it's like a little unfair that only one player who is full of MVPs and god item. can kill 30 players level 175 as anything. just to have better MVPs card and stuff. It understands what I mean. while I think would be a better woe. egalitarian. peliar ie with the same and that only the skill of the best is awarded. I think the same could put a restriction on the maximum guild example to have two woe castle for a guild. and they can try to have more (that's something extra)

 

not renewal tho no level 175s here

[VModCinnamon]

 

As one can enter the test server ??

I would like to do some tests on woe, ie without using MVP card, not god items. you know . to tell my friends who also come to test. I think it should be removed from the woe, the MVP card and god item. Players no longer have to power abuser. Briefly almost immortal. it's like a little unfair that only one player who is full of MVPs and god item. can kill 30 players level 175 as anything. just to have better MVPs card and stuff. It understands what I mean. while I think would be a better woe. egalitarian. peliar ie with the same and that only the skill of the best is awarded. I think the same could put a restriction on the maximum guild example to have two woe castle for a guild. and they can try to have more (that's something extra)

 

 

Rockerox, I hope you are aware that you are posting at Classic section. What's being discussed here not necessarily applies to Chaos and Thor. In addition, the re-balance points by CM Campitor are for Classic Loki server only.

 

If you want to discuss Renewal WoE TE please post in the following topic:

https://forums.warpp...tate-of-woe-te/

[Rockerox]

Rockerox, I hope you are aware that you are posting at Classic section. What's being discussed here not necessarily applies to Chaos and Thor. In addition, the re-balance points by CM Campitor are for Classic Loki server only.

 

If you want to discuss Renewal WoE TE please post in the following topic:

https://forums.warpp...tate-of-woe-te/

OK thanks

[rojoky113]

In the past when we have tried to create new WoE times, it has not triggered the emps and portals turning on properly. While we can change the WoE times around, the game itself only wants to do the two specific WoEs and won't recognize additional times being added. 

 

It may be possible to piggyback on an existing WoE time to trigger a castle turning on and have it governed by different rules, theoretically making a Classic WoE TE possible but we need to work on that for the test server. 

 

Hmm I'm not sure what I would suggest under those circumstances. If it is at all possible to figure out how to get the server to cooperate with a third woe time it is probably worth trying to get it to, but if it is certain that we can only have two woe times that complicates things. Would the possibility of us getting renewal UI and framework for classic make more woe times possible on the back end? Because renewal UI and the fourth hotkey bar are also a popular desire for a lot of people on classic. Might be even more reason to try and push kro to deliver on that possibility.

 

My initial reaction is that I don't think having a TE and normal woe going on side by side would necessarily be a good idea, especially if your end goal is to get smaller guilds to eventually grow in strength and experience so they feel able to participate in "full" woe. It would end up artificially dividing an already small server population and lead to stagnation due to little incentive to improve or venture out of their safe space in woe. Especially because the third group, guilds that want a mvp/godless gvg meta to exist somewhere, will push themselves into there as well and that kinda defeats the purpose of creating a woe space for weaker guilds to grow without getting constantly stomped.

 

If I had to put it into two woe times, my initial thought is that I'd make the TE woe one of the full woes on friday night, and maybe even rename it to Basic or something so it doesn't seem silly that the "training" edition is half of the servers woes. Then saturday would be full or Advanced woe. Split both 1.0 and 2.0 realms 50-50 between TE and normal, and 1.0 and 2.0 active both woes. That probably sorta manages to accomplish most of what my original suggestion wanted to to some degree, but not exactly ideal.

 

But really neither of those seem ideal compared to being able to add a third woe.

Edited by rojoky113, 01 December 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Mischelle]

Since mvp carded and miniboss carded items are not overpowered and are not impactful in WoE, prohibiting them in WoE will result in very little difference in actual WoE outcomes.

 

However, the perception of outcomes will be very much impacted.  Despite all facts* indicating that such items aren't overpowered, many knuckle dragging idiots believe that they do.  If mvp items are removed, these bads and noobs will believe the game is significantly more balanced than it previously was.

 

Current policy of catering only to the high-skilled, intelligent, elite players such as Xellie has resulted in a select playerbase made only of the finest people, but the downside has been that the server population has fallen off as the server has shed the unworthy lowlifes who can't hack real gameplay.

 

In the interest of increasing server population, perhaps making concessions to the dregs of the online gaming community is a valid avenue for propositions.

 

*

$facts = $Xellie->{opinions};

[Rate]

server pop died because of cheating, duped items, usrc zeny exploit, and bans of peoples friends, not because people have gear...

 

remove the usefulness of top tier gear and you remove one of the only goals in ragnarok...

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Since mvp carded and miniboss carded items are not overpowered and are not impactful in WoE, prohibiting them in WoE will result in very little difference in actual WoE outcomes.

However, the perception of outcomes will be very much impacted. Despite all facts* indicating that such items aren't overpowered, many knuckle dragging idiots believe that they do. If mvp items are removed, these bads and noobs will believe the game is significantly more balanced than it previously was.

Current policy of catering only to the high-skilled, intelligent, elite players such as Xellie has resulted in a select playerbase made only of the finest people, but the downside has been that the server population has fallen off as the server has shed the unworthy lowlifes who can't hack real gameplay.

In the interest of increasing server population, perhaps making concessions to the dregs of the online gaming community is a valid avenue for propositions.

*
$facts = $Xellie->{opinions};

I fail to see how personal attacks in any way serve to validate your point, especially when other members of the community have been given equal opportunity to share their "facts", such as yourself.

brb repurposing that equation to use on you the next time you post an opinion.

 

In many of the threads you mentioned, I make several suggestions.  The suggestions are often not ones I like, or would find enjoyable, but they do offer actual solutions.  Rather than discussing the merits or drawbacks of any of my input, however, individuals such as yourself simply flamed me.

 

That's not a discussion.

 

Given the context of the post you just made, this is retroactively hilarious coming from you. The hypocrisy is so real.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 01 December 2015 - 01:19 PM.

[rojoky113]

server pop died because of cheating, duped items, usrc zeny exploit, and bans of peoples friends, not because people have gear...

 

remove the usefulness of top tier gear and you remove one of the only goals in ragnarok...

 

This, for real.

 

RO is an MMO not a moba. Classic is not a pure gvg pserver. Your performance in woe is a culmination of everything you have accomplished in ragnarok: your skill, your teamwork, AND your gear. Gods and mvp cards provide top end gear goals for players and guilds, they keep people logging in and playing the game outside of 4 hours on the weekend once they get their general woe gear.

[Xellie]

Items that can be stacked on top of eachother meteorstorm style need to be rethunk on a server with such high drop rates / such low pop.
 
 
Also

To be clear, even if everything I suggest becomes implemented, I won't participate in any server events or in-game community.

[rojoky113]

Also, after playing around with the stat calc, I will say in case anyone was thinking the contrary that TE woe 110% needs minis, unless somehow you don't get enough of champs fisting in woe already. You can wear an immune nid, cranial, beret, combat knife, and pipe and a well geared champ can still hit you for close to 30k damage. Champs are strong at the moment but at least right now with item saturation every other person I fist I hit a GR lol.

Edited by rojoky113, 01 December 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Xellie]

Disable all the +sp gear/cards and that might be workable ^.^

 

But I don't think a TE WoE with trans would be viable without mini for that reason + stealth is awful

[Nathy]

You guys are too much

[Mischelle]

I was thinking that a good idea would be to remove increase weight limit, disable kafra items in WoE maps*, and disable all god items, mvp cards, and miniboss cards in all WoE situations, and then hold an annual gvg tournament which features no-items-barred battles using each player's own character (as opposed to the fabricated ones used in rwc).  The reward to the victors being some rare prize to be decided upon.

 

This would even out the standard WoE scene while still providing incentive for players and guilds to make god items and accumulate mvp gear.

 

Additionally, both classic and renewal servers should require a subscription.  The method for this subscription should be such that a person is simply required to buy kafra points and in return their account is automatically registered for a certain number of months, weeks, or days.  To be clear, KP purchased should not need to be used to activate the playtime, but the playtime is simply activated by the purchase itself.  Naturally, this eliminates the need for a VIP system.

 

This required purchase acts as a gateway for more purchases, because every player will have some KP to spend on some kafra shop items as a result of their requisite purchase.  Their expenditure of KP will ideally lead to some sort of addicting experience, whether that be upgrading, increased ExP, the value of life insurance, drop rates, or rental gear.  With all players by default having this opportunity, revenues from such sales should increase.

 

The reason not to fear subscription models is the result of the fact that RO is a MMORPG, not a MOBA.  A moba offers everything an MMORPG offers in an hour or less.  The essential part of MMOs is revealed when you invert this idea.  An MMORPG offers everything a MOBA offers over an extended duration.  The duration is key, because it means that the actual playerbase you have will come back again and again, because it is the continuity they desire.  This draw is something that mmorpgs can and should monetize.  Even if the cost of subscription is insignificant, paying it gives the player a feeling of ownership of their character (regardless of whether or not the EULA says otherwise).  If you want facts, here's one.  People invest more in the things they own than things they rent or get for free.

 

As an aside to the mention of the differences between mobas and mmorpgs, the fact that progression in an mmorpg means it takes time to accumulate gear is not an excuse for that gear to be completely overpowered.  At it's core, the attractiveness of an mmorpg is the continuity of the game.  Gear and level progression as a mechanic are identical to those in any moba (as it would be, since the moba genre ripped those mechanics straight from the mmo playbook) just much slower.  Unbalanced items are not excusable regardless of whether it takes 30 minutes or 30 weeks to farm it.

 

*removing increase weight from kafra shop comes with an across the board gift of KP equivalent to the cost of the scrolls.

[Rate]

game not worth playing without weight limit, too irritating

try again

 

or just dont