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Completely useless skills need to be either removed or changed


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#1 nullEssence

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 10:04 PM

Venom, Somersault Kick, Sonic Boom, Judge Dread, Battle Hit, Caused Bomber, Fire Grenade, not even going to list about 20 Twin/Summoner skills, and so many more.

How many times have you used these skills as your respective class? Have you ever put your points into them willingly

What exactly is the purpose of these skills? People who know the game will probably skip those if they can (tsk tsk useless prerequesites for good skills). At this moment, they only exist as a new player trap, and as a skill point drain (prerequesites). 

 

This just occurred to me because Dragon Saga launched on Steam recently and a lot of new players have started playing. I'm concerned that they will have to waste their Skill Resets over things like these. 

 

A quick but not so good solution would be to remove skills that are absolutely certainly useless, like Thieves' Venom for example. This skills has an incredibly long, noncancelable animation, that deals little to no damage over time at all levels. 

A good but hard solution would be to change them up, so you actually open a choice rather than a set skill build that if you don't follow, you're playing the game wrong. For instance, make Venom have a much bearable animation and make the DoT scale with your physical damage. That is all the skill needs to be viable. 

I don't know what to do with Somersault Kick, just remove it lol. 

Sonic boom. It is a boomerang, right? It makes no sense because it only goes one way. You know already what I'm going for here.

Judge Dread is an alright skill, it just needs some quality of life changes. For instance, make it be castable by pressing Z after the end of Aerial Combo.

Caused Bomber needs not to have a variable apply rate, and some number tweakings. And actually to be castable in air as the description already says.

Fire Grenade would look really awesome if instead of applying a burn, it leaves an area in fire for X seconds, dealing damage in it every second. 

 

This post isn't an urge to fix these things immediately at all costs. This is a suggestion for a far future, just some things that eventually need to happen if you want to revive this game. Playstyle diversity is an factor of the utmost importance in any rpg, and the game as it is right now doesn't have a lot of it.

Feel free to post your suggestions on how should some of those frequently-not-(never)-used-skills change!


Edited by nullEssence, 24 December 2015 - 10:08 PM.

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#2 Nobility

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:01 PM

Some of the skills you've mentioned aren't even bad. People just don't know how to incorporate them into their combos at all. Skills like judge dread, somersault kick and sonic boom aren't suppose to be dealing huge as numbers; they're used to link ur skills together to pull off some pre siq combos (as far as i know, no one does that here, all they do is spam skills and lock). Why remove these skills if they r working fine? Even if u buff these skills (dmg wise), it's not like people r gonna use them any way. A majority of the players on this server wouldnt even consider using these skills at all if you buffed them cuz they'd rather use skills that would allow them to catch people easily. For savages it'd be headspin spamming,  for archers it'd be their shootdown spam, OL it'd be their wyvern catches etc. There are no completely useless skills in my opinion. Every skill has its own utility even venom though it really is mediocre at best. That's just my opinion. 

 

EDIT: Corrected some typos


Edited by Nobility, 25 December 2015 - 08:46 PM.

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#3 Homurasan

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:42 PM

I at least agree with your point about Sonic boom. I was kind of... disappointed.

 

As for DoT skills, have a look at this thread : https://forums.warpp...-lets-talk-dot/


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#4 nullEssence

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:34 AM

Some of the skills you've mentioned aren't even bad. People just don't know how to incorporate them into their combos at all. Skills like judge dread, somersault kick and sonic boom aren't suppose to be dealing huge as numbers; they're used to link ur skills together to pull off some pre siq combos (as far as i know, no one does that here, all they do is spam skills and lock). Why remove these skills if they r working fine? Even if u buff these skills (dmg wise), it's not like people r gonna use them any way. A majority of the players on this server wouldnt even consider using these skills at all if you buffed them cuz they'd rather use skills that would allows them to catch people easily. For savages it'd be headspin spamming,  for archers it'd be their shootdown spam, OL it'd their wyvern catches etc. There are no completely useless skills in my opinion. Every skill has its own utility even venom though it really is mediocre at best. That's just my opinion. 

 

I apologize that I wasn't clear enough in my previous post, nor in the topic title, but this thread is more focused on cleaning up the skill tree. There a lot of skills that have no place in the game right now as they are. 

I didn't mention a single Twin or Summoner skill because I'm sure that any Twin/Summoner player knows what I'm talking about. Both their skill trees are extremely messy, cluttered with useless prerequisite skills that you have to put your points in. A level 55 Twin can't learn a skill that is "available" at level 47 due to prerequisites. We can all agree that Dragonkin have way too many skills, right? 

 

As for the other skills mentioned in my previous post, I'm not the best person to discuss game design, but I can see that every class has only two legit skill builds - one for PvP and one for PvE. Wouldn't it be awesome if you actually had a choice of how do you want to play your character? Right now if you don't max this and max that, don't put a skill point in that other thing, you're not being effective. 


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#5 Homurasan

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 12:15 PM

The thing is that Dragon Saga allows an unlimited number of skill points, and some skills are - of course - more efficient than other at doing something.

 

Meteor skill of the Warlocks is terrible due to its cast time and "weak" damage in the largest number of possible situations, but it's a large area of effect spell hitting airborne targets multiple times in a row, that can be cancelled at any time (and as such can confuse opponents, letting them think you're vulnerable). Of course no one uses it ! Weak damage, long cast time, long animation... but just as Somersault kick can be used in a number of different ways, about every skill can be found a purpose.

 

I didn't pick Meteors because I'm aiming for clearing mission maps and dungeons, not playing BSQ or even Emporia where a crowd control of this size might be interesting. As players' goals differ, they have different types of builds.

People should experiment a bit though...


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#6 Nobility

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 08:44 PM

Yeah the phrasing was a little akward but i gotchu bro. It is kind of weird how the prerequisite of a skill require u to be a lv much higher than that of the skill that it leads up to. An easy fix would be to just swap the two lvls around maybe, re-working the skills themselves however, is not necesarry in my opinion. They should be left as they are like i said before.
 
Also the core of a PvP build can be used for PvE and i dont get what you mean by players not having a choice as to how they play their character. With every job advancement, skill reset scrolls are provided to experiment and tailor ur build to ur own play-style and liking. Just cuz people say u should max out a skill doesnt mean u have to max it to be effective. If you don't even use it that often, dont invest any points into it. I see so many archers maxing out on anti-air shot and purchasing those hero accessories to get it to a high level when the dmg reduces after every consecutive hit. Why? This is just my opinion tho, those players can max it out if they want cuz that's their choice and their way of playing their character.   
 
In response to ur initial question, yes, i do willingly put points into these "useless" skills and i use them quite regularly too. They are an essential part of my combo that allow me to link up my skills nicely despite having low as dmg. 
 

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#7 Agitodesu

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 02:39 PM

It's just best to put whatever ideas in the link homura posted. Maybe a staff will consider that far in the future.


Edited by Agitodesu, 27 December 2015 - 02:46 PM.

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