11 replies to this topic

[rakionist]

I think a lot of people been complaining about this from what I seen. In general drakans are WAY OVERPOWERED. I know some of those who comment here are gonna defend their class since they use it and dont want a nerf, but anyways~ just think about it in the few points below.

 

1) Twin fighter has an insane block rate, making it very difficult to land a hit most of the time. On top of that, theres weaving and stuff that makes it even more difficult to hit. I know people will say "but twins have very low hp and def", enchant and craft aside, I dont think that hp mean anything if theres gonna be super high block rates and weaving spams. This point is my main complain I have about twins. For those who are gonna say "you just have to catch it at the right moment", go back to the reason of this thread. If its THIS difficult to defeat compared to other classes, then I would say its pretty broken and something should be done to balance it.

 

2) Combos- Like Dragoon, twins can EASILY execute 1 hit combos with their huge variety of skills and relatively low cooldown time. On top of that, both twins can attack to make 1 hit combos easy. That is their class specialty do nothing can be done about it. But yeah, if dragoon gets a nerf to balance 1 hit combo complains, twins should too one way or another.

 

3) Twin itself, I wont elaborate much on this point since again, this is part of the class nothing can be done about it. I just mention this to add on to first 2 points to emphasize how broken this class is. To stun or trap this class, its pretty futile since the twin can still go round attacking opponent.

 

Its time broken classes not just twins be nerf IMO. If these classes have such a huge edge over other classes, those who dont play these classes will be on the lower end of the chain. And I'm pretty sure it would be quite dull if everyone were to create twins invokers and what not just to balance things out. There will be those who go against this post pretty much because they have a Twin they main and dont want it to be nerfed, but yeah I hope this post gains some attention and something is done.

[Homurasan]

Twin fighters don't have ANY native DEF rate, and I believe they have to use particular items to obtain a very small chance to block very little damage. Most of their combos can be interrupted by a fast or superarmored skill since these are mostly ground combos. The second twin can be caught as any other player as far as I remember, and about every class has area-of-effect skills that allow to hit both of the twins.

 

Twin fighters don't have any superarmored skill, too, which makes Weave a somewhat necessary mechanism. I'm writing "somewhat" because there of course are ways to catch an opponent without using it.

 

All in all, I disagree with everything you wrote.

[rakionist]

I shall elaborate on ur reasonings Homurasan. To quote you,

 

"Most of their combos can be interrupted by a fast or superarmored skill " again it boils down to some better classes who have this capability isnt it. Not all classes have this superarmored skill like savage for instance, and if you are going to counter it with "it is still a check for twin", then I'll have to repeat my statement you won't want everyone to be making savages just to check certain classes do you? I feel I need to reinforce this point >> what is considered broken, is to quote myself "If its THIS difficult to defeat compared to other classes" then it is broken. Yes different classes have their fortes and weaknesses, but I dont think you grasp the idea that THIS specific forte twin has is almost impossible to check for the general classes out there, not those with specific abilities to check it. This is what makes it broken. The fact that there is extremely limited checks to it.

 

"Twin fighters don't have any superarmored skill, too, which makes Weave a somewhat necessary mechanism", well dont EVERY class NOT have superarmored skill too? except for some like savage, but again, same logic so lets not talk about that limited check since I mentioned it already. If you wanna reason it like that, shouldnt every class have weaving? Since now only twin can weave to dodge however other classes have to rely solely on footwork to dodge

Edited by rakionist, 26 December 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[Homurasan]

Invokers, Sorcerers, Dragoons, Overlords, Savages, Ninjas all have one way or another to obtain superarmor through using a skill, and even Archers and Summoners can use chain combos for that. Now if you can't use all of them to escape a combo, I assume it's kind of unfair if you can get out of it quickly since you were caught and deserve to be dealt damage.

[Nobility]

One way they can go about fixing the OP block is to probably re-work it so that it's the same as a DK/SW's block where upon blocking a skill, it reduces the incoming dmg.This way u can still deal dmg when ur skills get blocked and the twin can still retain some defences to escape combos and such.

 

As for ur 3rd point, just combo the twin from behind. A majority of their twin's skill can only hit enemies infront of them. Do this and you wont get hit lol. Not so hard to solve is it?

[Mizuro75]

There already was a nerf with blocking Weaving and Rebound in BSQ and EW. Who uses this skills in a random PvP match simply plays unfair, same for using nearly endless combos. This has nothing do with the class, almost every class has a combo you cannot escape from, so it simply matters if somebody plays fair or not. Using endless combos isn't an indicator for an op class, it just reveals the players uses an unfair opportunity, which nearly every class has and was always used by many people, sadly.

 

And for your 3rd point:

For sure you can still cast skills with the twin while being stunned but while that the skills have no effect/deal no damage or hit, it's only visual.

[rakionist]

While I agree there are ways to overcome this twin problem, it is still very difficult for many situations. Freeze for instance, is not very long duration. When the player cast a freeze he have to walk to the back, to attack everytime, furthermore, there is also cases where the twin attacks you during/right after the freeze and this can costs 2-3 seconds or even more to recover from it. By the time this happens, the main twin is alrdy unfrozen. I know what you guys mean by going to the back to attack, but its easier said than done. The twin is not going to stand there and let you walk to the back of the main twin for u to attack it..

And again I have to emphasize this since some of you dont get the point of nerfing. Yes there should be some difficulty as it is the class's way to survive, but if it is THIS difficult, and has too little access point to kill it, then it calls for a nerf. The keyword is TOO difficult, not, difficult.

[Precrush]

In my opinion, once they can change skills so that they are different in pve and pvp, cooldowns in pvp should be changed on all classes to make any kind of locking or combos way too long impossible.

I seem to remember popcorn saying that no nerfs are coming before such a separation with pvp and pve can be made.

Edited by Precrush, 27 December 2015 - 01:07 AM.

[rakionist]

Precrush ur suggestion isnt bad, it could work but invokers wont really be affected so hopefully something different can be done for invokers

[Mizuro75]

In my opinion, once they can change skills so that they are different in pve and pvp, cooldowns in pvp should be changed on all classes to make any kind of locking or combos way too long impossible.

 

People will always find a way for a nearly endless combo in a 1v1 PvP. Even if it's a combo with 2-3 which barely deal damage.

 

There is no need for a change in skills or classes, there is need for a change in the PvP behaviour. At this point, I just link another topic: PvP Class Etiquette

 

Back to twin fighters... in a 1v1 match you don't use block skills and if you do, you don't spam them like some people do it. In a group pvp the enemy should not be able to do a nearly endless combo otherwise your team mates failed to protect you and also for the block skills, in group it becomes easier to catch a twin if you play it wisely.

 

I don't want to argue about the fact the twin fighters are one of the best pvp classes but there are always classes which are more suited for pvp and classes who are less suited for pvp.

Edited by Mizuro75, 27 December 2015 - 11:29 AM.

[Precrush]

How do you suppose people design games if "players will always find a way". Stop saying that gosh... Guess it could be a bit too time consuming to remove all of the ways, but most of them at least, so you wouldn't be so encouraged to do it. We had pvp "rules" on eu, but the fact remains that that type of things shouldn't have to be made for 1v1's to be enjoyable.

[Agitodesu]

1. All endgame characters can probably reach to 30k defense to 45k defense. All classes can have up to 1000+ hlt built if they stack correctly.

2. Twins are not "Squishy" they are as "Squishy" as any other class or as "Tanky" as any other class.

3. Stating above as a tanky class, I do not compare this with sorcerers or invokers as twins can not heal (But, revive and use items to sustain if they do choose to)

4. Super armor doesn't do anything to an infinite kicking, mc dragon kick, slide kicking, and almost every flinching skill that a twin has.

5. Not all classes have super armor. or can use it as often as twins can spam skills.

6. You can solidy lock with twins easily with 2 skills. If you say oh don't use that infinite kicking, they can still lock with 6 other different skills as easily.

7. Although nerfed already with the weave and rebound th ey are pretty solid and dominate almost any other classes such as warriors/theif/archer/Sorceror classes.
8. 1 class should not be able to dominate 78% of the other classes if equally skilled and equally geared.

9. In bsqs they have  a specific roll to catch. I do not say crowd controlling since that's every classes job. Twins excel at catching.
10. Breath control reduces all cooldowns by a specific amount. (op)
11. In normal pvp those bsq/ew restrictions of rebound/weave do not apply.

 

Twins will be hard to balance and the class seems to be meant for pvp so not much can be applied.