12 replies to this topic

[Scuzbot]

here is my dilema! i have this hawker that i have designed for scout and i took a look at the raider tree for the first time today... and now im feeling like i made a mistake! i always planned on making my hawker the pvp spectacle of my characters end game, and it looks more like i would want to play a dual weapon raider. so im looking for some advice... are pvp scouts more trouble than dual weapon pvp raiders? i have no interest in katar so pfft on that option. i have no problem with gear so dont worry about that aspect either. i just want to know who you would want dead asap if a raider and a scout ran straight at you in pvp.

[Akayo]

It all depends on whether you prefer range or close quarter combat.
In a 1v1 pvp setting, dual raiders tend to be pretty good, however scouts might be better in union war situations.

[poopiehead]

i'd worry more about the scout personally.

[Scuzbot]

It all depends on whether you prefer range or close quarter combat.
In a 1v1 pvp setting, dual raiders tend to be pretty good, however scouts might be better in union war situations.

union war is probably what i am going to be more interested in.. thats the equivelant to "War of Emporium" in ragnarok isnt it? grand scale battles etc.

i'd worry more about the scout personally.

nice help solidifying my scout enjoyment. i think i just need to play it a little today and leave my soldier alone lol.

[BrownBear]

Whoever the bigger threat is depends on the player. Scouts and raiders fall into the same category of priority for me, so whoever I find to be the better player I will go for first.
For wars I tend to prioritize like this: clerics, aoes (champ, mage, bourg), raider/scout, knights/CGs.

The hawkers tend to be the 1v1 assassins and they will typically go for clerics and aoers. So I attack them if I need to save someone important. Otherwise I usually focus the way I listed.

Now if both players can be considered as equally skilled or equally threatening, between a dual raider and a scout, I'd go for the scout first because the scout will likely die quicker (typically less dodge) while also hurting more. If it was a katar raider and a scout I would go for the katar raider first because they will likely kill me faster.

The few dual raiders I see do not seem to hurt more than the katar raiders and scouts I see. But that could simply be because dual raider is an underplayed class in PvP.

[Scuzbot]

Whoever the bigger threat is depends on the player. Scouts and raiders fall into the same category of priority for me, so whoever I find to be the better player I will go for first.
For wars I tend to prioritize like this: clerics, aoes (champ, mage, bourg), raider/scout, knights/CGs.

The hawkers tend to be the 1v1 assassins and they will typically go for clerics and aoers. So I attack them if I need to save someone important. Otherwise I usually focus the way I listed.

Now if both players can be considered as equally skilled or equally threatening, between a dual raider and a scout, I'd go for the scout first because the scout will likely die quicker (typically less dodge) while also hurting more. If it was a katar raider and a scout I would go for the katar raider first because they will likely kill me faster.

The few dual raiders I see do not seem to hurt more than the katar raiders and scouts I see. But that could simply be because dual raider is an underplayed class in PvP.

very insightful, thank you.

what im getting is that a scout would be more offensive but fold quickly, while a dual raider would survive better but deal less damage. if your grouping them together then that means that they are probably balanced with each other, so ultimately it would come down to player preference. poopiehead said he would worry about the scout, which makes sense with what your saying because a scout would drop him faster.

you have also sparked a question, you say katar raider would put out a little more damage than a scout, so how about defensively? does a scout have an edge on katar raiders when it comes to survivability? because if they do not.. then... you know.. i wont waste my time with scout.

also... by saying that dual raiders are underplayed you basically just swayed my decision compas toward dual raider... just to see if i can prove something you know? lol. and hell if that doesnt work then skill reset to katar, right? =)

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rose in pve breaks down to heals, aoe, and pull tanks from what i have seen. i have a soldier who is covering the aoe aspect, i have a visitor who i plan to cover the heals aspect, and i dont want to get rid of my hawker-scout because its ineffective at pull tanking. i was thoroughly pwned on pull tanking by a hawker who was 5 levels lower than me, and from what i gathered, the same or less equipped. so as far as pve is concerned i already know that i would prefer dual raider, simply because they do the best at what hawkers are useful for... plus a little aoe.

i think i am fighting the inevetable here... i always knew that i prefer a survivable class over a killer class. thats why i picked soldier for aoe over the other quick-fold characters. plus gear would be simplified... attack power set and a dodge set.

i am going to wait to hear about katar defense though...

[poopiehead]

In pvp situations, where u dont need much mspeed, duals last longer than katar last longer than scout if ur just talking about the amoun of dmg they can take. This is due to their dodge, duals having the highest.

However, u should keep in mind that while sxouts have less dodge, u r a ranged class. And u are allowed to run away in uw. This gives u a higher chance of surviving a group of attackers.

Also depends on ur comp a bit. I play a katar raider and i find myself dead in most group sitatuions simply because my comp pauses wen there are so many ppl around me. When i play my scout, the distance gives mu comp extra time to react

[Viceking]

my raider was a katars,i seen they are pretty common now and chose do a reset skill for a dual,more rare, i love it,enjoy it more than a katars fails

dual/scout ftw

your guys dont have know the legendary ''sinisterPt'' he was the best dual raider in game before him quit,i know what can do a decent dual high domage.

Edited by Viceking, 30 November 2010 - 12:28 PM.

[Scuzbot]

maybe it would be a smart idea to make a new character and just play them both eh?

[BrownBear]

very insightful, thank you.

what im getting is that a scout would be more offensive but fold quickly, while a dual raider would survive better but deal less damage. if your grouping them together then that means that they are probably balanced with each other, so ultimately it would come down to player preference. poopiehead said he would worry about the scout, which makes sense with what your saying because a scout would drop him faster.

you have also sparked a question, you say katar raider would put out a little more damage than a scout, so how about defensively? does a scout have an edge on katar raiders when it comes to survivability? because if they do not.. then... you know.. i wont waste my time with scout.

also... by saying that dual raiders are underplayed you basically just swayed my decision compas toward dual raider... just to see if i can prove something you know? lol. and hell if that doesnt work then skill reset to katar, right? =)

i am going to wait to hear about katar defense though...

Katars, dual raiders, and even scouts can all achieve the same dodge. The difference comes down to how easy that dodge is to obtain. Mirror phantasm (the main dodge buff) is easiest to get for dual raiders. Katar raiders have to sacrifice a little bit to get it and scouts have to sacrifice a lot to get it. They all have pretty easy access to the dodge passive too. The rest comes down to what gear you prefer to use.

So with that in mind, all three can technically have the same survivability. There are really just too many variables to concretely say one will do this or that far better than the other.

Since you will be in UW a lot, the range of a scout will be most helpful. Ranged classes always have a slight survivability edge over melee classes in war situations simply because they don't have to run headfirst into a mob of opponents. When actually being hit, whoever has more dodge and HP will naturally survive longer, which, if everyone uses conventional builds, tends to favor raiders

I think with equal gear and skill a katar raider will deal the most damage (out of the three) and be more deadly thanks to cloak. I have seen good scouts and they can be quite a pain. Dual raiders, I just haven't seen one that is all that impressive with the new system to judge what is possible. I definitely think it would be a worthwhile venture to try and tap into their potential. Maybe its the class, maybe its the players, I don't really know.

Note: Evasive guard shoots dual raiders on top for sure in terms of dodge, but that skill is rarely used and technically katar raiders and scouts could make use of it as well (but it would simply be a waste of time).

my raider was a katars,i seen they are pretty common now and chose do a reset skill for a dual,more rare, i love it,enjoy it more than a katars fails

dual/scout ftw

your guys dont have know the legendary ''sinisterPt'' he was the best dual raider in game before him quit,i know what can do a decent dual high domage.

He still plays. But his raider converted to katar long ago.

Edited by BrownBear, 30 November 2010 - 06:21 PM.

[Viceking]

Katars, dual raiders, and even scouts can all achieve the same dodge. The difference comes down to how easy that dodge is to obtain. Mirror phantasm (the main dodge buff) is easiest to get for dual raiders. Katar raiders have to sacrifice a little bit to get it and scouts have to sacrifice a lot to get it. They all have pretty easy access to the dodge passive too. The rest comes down to what gear you prefer to use.

So with that in mind, all three can technically have the same survivability. There are really just too many variables to concretely say one will do this or that far better than the other.

Since you will be in UW a lot, the range of a scout will be most helpful. Ranged classes always have a slight survivability edge over melee classes in war situations simply because they don't have to run headfirst into a mob of opponents. When actually being hit, whoever has more dodge and HP will naturally survive longer, which, if everyone uses conventional builds, tends to favor raiders

I think with equal gear and skill a katar raider will deal the most damage (out of the three) and be more deadly thanks to cloak. I have seen good scouts and they can be quite a pain. Dual raiders, I just haven't seen one that is all that impressive with the new system to judge what is possible. I definitely think it would be a worthwhile venture to try and tap into their potential. Maybe its the class, maybe its the players, I don't really know.

Note: Evasive guard shoots dual raiders on top for sure in terms of dodge, but that skill is rarely used and technically katar raiders and scouts could make use of it as well (but it would simply be a waste of time).




He still plays. But his raider converted to katar long ago.

oh he might also have change of name because i havent see him for long time, i heard he quit dam people start false rumor,anyway i remeber when it was a dual pretty strong beast too bad now is one katars im going take the pride of raider dual back i think loll serious im plan to build a decent dual soon

[Blitzkrieg]

oh he might also have change of name because i havent see him for long time, i heard he quit dam people start false rumor,anyway i remeber when it was a dual pretty strong beast too bad now is one katars im going take the pride of raider dual back i think loll serious im plan to build a decent dual soon

i hope u do
ppl have stopped caring about dual raiders much all hawker threads are narrowly oriented towards BURN,katars and scouts
no1 cares for duals

[Viceking]

dual ftw i get rid off katars already lol,1v1 they are so dead

anyway i like playing one rare class make me almost unique, fun experimental