5 replies to this topic

[Idun]

Class Balance Feedback

Warrior

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Welcome to the Warrior class balance feedback thread! The purpose of this thread is to collect information about the skills, stats, and specific features of this class that might need improvement for the sake of balance between classes.
 
In this thread you may:
 
Make suggestions for class balance.
 
Or
 
Comment on existing topics of class balance.
 
To make a new suggestion for class balance, please use the following format:
 

Spoiler

Topic Title
Please include a complete sentence or reference as to what the issue is.
For example, "[Thief] Hiding's x2 double modifier causes too much damage".
 
Severity:
- Critical: This needs to be fixed ASAP
- Moderate: This should be fixed within a month's time
- Minor: This should be fixed but shouldn't take precedent over other fixes
- Tweak: This is a suggested change to improve a skill or stat
 
Problem:
(Go into detail here what the issue is)
 
Steps to Reproduce:
(Provide enough steps that someone who has never played the class can reproduce them)
 
Suggestion:
(Go into detail what the suggestion or suggestions are. If more than one, please distinguish between the two so we don't overlap)
 
Videos/Screenshots:
(Links should be placed here for video and screenshots. If videos and screenshots are attached to the card, simply say 'See attached')

 
To comment on an existing topic, please use the following format:
 
[spoiler]
Discussion: [Insert Trello Card Name Here]
 
Your Feedback:

 
Please keep all feedback civil, and do not comment on this forum unless you are reporting a balance idea or providing feedback for an existing topic. 

[Dattsun]

Topic Title
Make Berserk a Passive buff like Battle Orders
 
Severity:
Tweak (berserk)

 

Problem:
BT aside (which you already know how unbalance it is), warrior i think is the dps for a tank class, without -10% damage reduction that knight have, or body steel like the monk and they dont have high hp like bm, so if you take away/nerf BT their damage will be too low.

Suggestion:
so yeah IF BT ever got nerf knight will still do more/same damage than warrior, so my suggestion is change berserk into a passive buff, so a warrior without BT still do more damage than other tank class (and if it doesn't get nerf no need to change it, as it will only buff them more)

 

[Greven79]

Discussion:

Make Berserk a Passive buff like Battle Orders (not yet a Trello card)
 
Your Feedback:

Battle Tactics aside, Warriors still have the +3 ATK per STR benefit and the highest weapon damage. The Knight's 10% damage reduction is therefore more a compensation. And the Warrior still has the unique Defender skill. Let's assume Defender wouldn't increase dodge & parry, but grant a 10% damage reduction. This would then grant a benefit directly comparable to the Knight's shield. But the Warrior would still have a higher ATK and weapon damage.

 

So the inbalances are generated through other aspects:

• offhand seeds // seeds in general
• overly high stats & percentages making Defender kind of useless
• bad formulas

But there's also another aspect that makes Berserk quite irrelevant: Weapon damage isn't part of the attack power anymore. That's why I'd like to add:

 

_____________________________________

 

Topic Title
[General] All ATK increasing skills should either increase the physical // magical skill effect or the damage total directly.

All value-increasing skills should rather raise the corresponding rate // percentage.
 
Problem:
Weapon damage isn't part of the ATK anymore, but some classes still receive huge MATK bonuses.

That means that ATK-altering skills are lost their effectiveness for most classes and some classes suffer more from that nerf than others.

 
Steps to Reproduce:
Obvious
 
Suggestion:
All ATK-altering effects should modify the physical or magical skill effect directly. That will remove the inbalances between classes and would make these skills more interesting again.To keep the new offensive bonuses in check with the defensive ones, the latter should modify the resulting percentual rates, not the values.

 

Or even better:

All damage-alterating percentages (both positive & negative) should alter the total damage instead and do so in a multiplicative way.

Multiplicative means, they are not summed up first and applied in total, but each modifier one by one.

 

I.e.

30% ATK boost via Berserk => 30% higher damage total.

10% lower ATK via Defender => 10% lower damage total.

 

Applying a 30% damage boost from Berserk, 10 CLS runes à 3%, a 10% damage reduction from the Knight's shield and a 40% damage reduction from another skill

= 1.3 * 0.97 * 0.97 * ... * 0.97 * 0.9 * 0.6

= 1.3 * (0.97¹⁰ * 0.9 * 0.6)

= 1.3 * (0.398...)

= 0.5177

= 51.77% of the original damage taken.(i.e. a 48.23% damage reduction)

 

Since this would alter the effectiveness of certain benefits, better equalize them (f.e. CLS 5% => 3%, power greenseeds 40% => 20~25%). In that regard, it would be helpful to visualize the resulting total as two additional percentages shown in the character menu (similar to the current PvP damage increase // PvP damage reduction entries), simply applying (multiplying) all damage-increasing modifiers for the first value and all damage-decreasing modifiers for the second value.

 

Edit:

If you want to separate damage-increasing effects from healing-increasing effects, you would need 3 or 4 different entries of course.

 

Videos/Screenshots:
TBD

Edited by Greven79, 19 January 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[bluemadness]

This was really a bad idea. For people who are using mainly warior for pve. First i would say about are the hones. Most of the players who have op hones are basically the ones who spent a lot time in farming hhb. if there was a problem at least give them a renumeration of 2s of honing scrub. since that was how much i spent on honing( basing from me) another is the runes. People who wanted to change bt have always been for their benefit and for pvp class. The nerf is always negative for pve players. The runes which they farmed is really hard. of course you had event like doubloons and stuff. but remember we already worked hard for those runes and hhb. and now u wanted us to do more hardwork. farming doubloons isnt an easy feat. remember there are people who farms them and getting all the rune removers and scrubs from them is really hard not to mention the cost of honing and reset honing. 150z jsut for honing of weapon and 20z for equipment. for those who wanted perfect hone. and for the balanced of monster. Third would be the names. judging from the name battle tactics. Intelligence is like information. so why would you limit intelligence. is there any limited information even in real life. and for the people crying they are 1 hit. of course because they are casters. of course they are purposely squishy. have you ever heard of any tank mage. doing a lot damage. no. plus with this bear, sm. those who have 100+k life would mean they would be invincible. we have 1 hitters because they invested for that char for a long time. 

[KuroiKoneko]

lolwhat
my 2nd main char is warrior, it got 1.3-1.5k int and decent agi, it is more than enough for pve unless you want to overthreat main tank (usually who got 2-3k int got waaay less hp or use swag 2-3s costumes) and die lol
and with dat 1.5k int i got only two int hone lines in gears and 5 int runes in gears, the rest from title, himmel\serenia accs

tho i would like to completely remove bt or let it be a buff that gives 3-5 100% hits (want to reroll to true warrior str\agi build <3)

[ckchee]

lolwhat
my 2nd main char is warrior, it got 1.3-1.5k int and decent agi, it is more than enough for pve unless you want to overthreat main tank (usually who got 2-3k int got waaay less hp or use swag 2-3s costumes) and die lol
and with dat 1.5k int i got only two int hone lines in gears and 5 int runes in gears, the rest from title, himmel\serenia accs

tho i would like to completely remove bt or let it be a buff that gives 3-5 100% hits (want to reroll to true warrior str\agi build <3)

 

i don't think those with high INT has low hp.

before BT nerf my warrior has 5k INT and 120k+ hp fully buffed.

and yes, one crit rage strike will make me the "MT" lolz.

making berserk a passive skill sounds legit..