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#1 Idun

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 04:04 PM

Class Balance Feedback

Sorcerer

To access the current Class Feedback board for Sorcerer: Click Here

To view current Class Feedback for all classes: Click Here

 
Welcome to the Sorcerer class balance feedback thread! The purpose of this thread is to collect information about the skills, stats, and specific features of this class that might need improvement for the sake of balance between classes.
 
In this thread you may:
 
Make suggestions for class balance.
 
Or
 
Comment on existing topics of class balance.
 
To make a new suggestion for class balance, please use the following format:
 
Spoiler

 
Please keep all feedback civil, and do not comment on this forum unless you are reporting a balance idea or providing feedback for an existing topic. 
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#2 Greven79

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 07:08 AM

Discussion:

Earth Emblem Proposal

 

Your Feedback:

A well-done list, but ignores a few facts.

 

Heal vs. Healing Wave:

Totally ignores casting time differences.

Heal: 1.0s casting time + 1.5s animation time => base HPS ratio of 0.4

Healing Wave: 0.5s casting time + 1.5s animation time => base HPS ratio of 0.5

 

Heal: 433% * 0.4 = 173.2%

Healing Wave: 340% * 0.5 = 170%

 

That means they start out with an almost identical HPS percentage, but cast speed improves Heal more than iHealing Wave.

 

Santuary vs. Deluge:

Sanctuary is a self-centered skill that forbids the caster to move or perform any actions while it's active.

That means a Sorcerer can easily combine a Deluge and Land of Recovery at the same time to eliminate the differences.

 

Renovatio vs. Land of Recovery:

Not exactly identical skills, yet the maximum possible percentage is the same (ignoring skill levels).

Renovatio requires the Priest to spend 8 skill uses (approx. 1.5sec per cast) to keep it up on 8 targets.

Land of Recovery requires 1 skill use, but forces players to stand in the area of effect

Land of Recovery also stack given enough vigor or multiple Sorcerers.

 

Highness Heal vs. Rejuvenation:

In a direct comparison, obviously broken in favor for Highness Heal. But that silll ignores a few facts:

 

Every class has a few skills with an increased max. level. If Rejuvenation wasn't pushed, other skills were.

In order to use Aspersio to increase the efficiency of Highness Heal, the Priest has to cast it first and that requires time & Holy Water.

Ergo: He loses at least one cast (approx. 1.5s). The Sorcerer could use that time to cast another heal skill instead (Healing Wave).

 

So we have:

 

Lvl5 Highness Heal: 640% (multiple targets)

Lvl5 Rejuvenation: 540%

 

Lvl5 Highness Heal + Aspersio: 640% * 1.5 (+50%) = 960% (multiple targets)

Lvl5 Rejuvenation + Healing Wave: 540% + 340% = 880% (more like 812% due to the casting time)

 

And if you compare Highness Heal with a different skill instead:

Single Lvl5 Land of Recovery in total: 5 ticks à 220% = 1100% (multiple targets)

_____

 

Where things get ugly is when you apply the Meditatio/Meditation multiplier...and if you look at the additional DoT of Highness Heal.

 

If the skill would do what it states, it would create a DoT that recovers the original percentage over 10~11sec. I.e. the total of all ticks combined would be 640% (at level 5).

That would result in 90~108% heal per tick (assuming either 5 or 6 ticks). That would then be half as efficient as a single Renovatio:

 

Lvl5 Highness Heal + Aspersio: 640% * 1.5 (+50%) = 960% (multiple targets) + 640% over the next 11sec

 

And there is one more thing.

Throughout all the comparisons, the DoT option of Earth Emblem wasn't added at all, yet the suggested change might create a more significant impact.

 

Conclusion:

I wouldn't add another heal boost to Earth Emblem.

 

Skills like Meditatio & Meditation should be addressed directly or even removed completely (the cost-efficient solution).

In regard of Highness Heal, I'd suggest the solution in the next section (although that would have to be added in the Priest section):

_______________________________

 

Type:

Highness Heal

 

Problem:
The skill is currently all you really need as a healer.

 

Suggestion:

  • Increase cooldown to 12sec
  • Limit normal cast to a single target, but let it hit up to 3 targets in case Aspersio was used.
  • In either case, let it apply Renovatio on all targets hit (reset the duration if already present)
  • Revove the other HoT effect, as well as the additonal heal

_______________________________

 

Addendum:

All the discussions about skill & class inbalances are kind of useless until the fundamental game issues are solved first.

 

F..e. lets assume either DoTs should not ignore defense or Addition of MDEF would work as intented and solves all the corresponding issues.

They would still fail to achieve anything in regard of heals or HoTs,

 

So whereas you would start the game with Holy Light and Heal being similar effective, simply because there are no significant amounts of defense, MDEF or damage reduction, the Heal would still be vastly superior later on, when characters have a 75%+ defense rate and similar rates in MDEF or damage reduction. Suddenly, the Holy Light will deal less then 1/4th the potential damage (75% absorbed by defense, even more due to additional damage reduction), whereas the Heal would be the same.

 

And to make it short: There is no real solution to that, only a few workarounds!

 

These workarounds are meant to keep the effective defense rate (as well as other forms of damage mitigation) below ~30%. (achieved via some sort of armor bypass). The remaining inbalance can then be ignored, accepted or compensated by either implementing a 43% damage bonus that doesn't elevate a character's healing power (yes, 43% .. that's how things work) and/or by implementing special attacks that apply a non-stacking 30%.healing debuff (i.e. any heals received by the target are 30% less effective). The latter might then can still cause issue (applying these debuffs at the right time), so you have to make sure, the inbalance isn't that severe to begin with.


Edited by Greven79, 15 January 2016 - 08:47 AM.

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#3 Sowlemia

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 08:20 AM

Basically in your post you're just comparing sorcerer with Priest which is not that concreat. Priest is broken but a priest is meant to heal while a sorcerer is hybrid semi fps semi heal, so basically it's easy to compare sorcerer's heal with priest's heal i'm sad it's always this way and never "Sorerer's insane DPS+heal compeared to "Wiz's DPS+no heal" But well i guess people don't want to see their classes nerfed.

 

As for me "Fire ball (dot)" should be removed from Sorcerer's skills. that's all i can say but well when a class is Over Powered we don't see anyone playing the class willing to nerf it.

 

sad life as uaual.


Edited by Sowlemia, 15 January 2016 - 08:22 AM.

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#4 Greven79

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 08:35 AM

Basically in your post you're just comparing sorcerer with Priest which is not that concreat. Priest is broken but a priest is meant to heal while a sorcerer is hybrid semi fps semi heal, so basically it's easy to compare sorcerer's heal with priest's heal

 

No, I wrote a comment about a Trello card. And I did that in the way I was asked to by Idun's initial post (just scroll to the top). By nature, this won't be an all-embracing or wizard-centric view, you might want it to be. But you should always feel free to comment on any aspect you prefer.


Edited by Greven79, 15 January 2016 - 08:36 AM.

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#5 Sowlemia

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 08:45 AM

At this moment it's not only about Wizard i just see that people comment on something they want to change even if they are aware of wrong things relating to the class itself, the problem is that they never talk about it and that is sad but let's move on, forget what i said. Hypocrisy everywhere.


Edited by Sowlemia, 15 January 2016 - 08:46 AM.

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