*likeliness
I'm sorry was there an apology in there for me being right? :3
I did assume, more like hope, that this nerf would have been greater. Sadly I was mistaken.
What's that? "You were right fluke, I was wrong"? It's ok, apology accepted. :3
No fluke, Maybe you've managed to talk yourself out of it once. but you repeated yourself often enough to convince me that you didn't have the slightest idea what you were talking about. I apologized myself because my initial statement was more about math, and less about the social consequences. That means, although I am 100% certain that you used the wrong calculation and insisted on your false conclusion that you've even started a quarrel with Sowlemia, it wasn't my intention to put you into a position where you're forced to lie. So I apologized myself and phrased it in a way that would give you the chance to keep your integrity. That's a difference.
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Of course it's circular and interdependent, but start where everyone will win, and nerf from that point on; thus leaving noone unable to play...
I still feel that any tweaks made need to consider the necessary PvE aspect of the game before being implemented. So this recent nerf should have come with a PvE nerf also, especially considering that PvE was already too potent for anyone lacking in runes/hones/refines. If runes/hones/refines were truly optional to manage PvE, then I wouldn't care how much they nerfed them. When they added runes, hones and even refining+20, those bonuses were supposed to be BONUSES, not essentials. I feel betrayed that runes/hones/refines have become essential for PvE survival...
So that's where I'd start. I'd start with play-testing the game with characters wearing no runes/hones/refines, and nerfing PvE to fit that gear set. Then, any tweaks made to the additions would be unworthy of complaints with regard to PvE, since they would all be truly 'bonus'. Sure, this would leave PvP at a standstill for longer, but at least the imbalances caused by hones/runes/refines would then stand out, and be easier to analyze for further tweaks. Meanwhile, we could then play PvE with a greater sense of reward for our efforts, and less cause to complain.
But that's just how I would start. You asked, that's my answer. I admit I may not know enough to know what is best, nor am I 100% certain that I am right, so I don't need final word on the matter. I am certain that any tweaks made need to consider PvE impact, since PvE is an essential aspect of the game that all players must endure. I would say, however, that starting asap is the highest option, as this has been hanging fire for far too long... As you said, if they stop here, they'd be leaving the game in a,"fragile and imbalanced state," possibly more than it was in before with regards to PvE.
See, I don't oppose your opinion, i just used a different chain of thoughts // argumentation to make others consider the consequences. And I quoted your post because I think many players share the same thoughts // concerns.
To be honest, although I think that hones, etc. should be optional, I don't really care, if they were planned to be mandatory, optional or just profitable. It's been a long way from purely cosmetic costumes to the 3-socketed & fuseable ones, filled with new runes and granting an additional %-bonus (back accessory) we have now. So it's hard to state anything on the original intent.
But if you ask me, I believe Warpportal & Gravity underestimated the impact of the hones, refinements and formulas. And I think, they know they screwed things up. But they aren't the only one to blame. Players complained that the pre-AoV refinement wasn't good enough, so we got the new a +20 cap. (Warpportal later implemented free refinement stones as a sort of 'balance fix'). Players complained that the Dayr Desert gear wasn't worth it, so we got greenseeds everywhere. (Warpportal lowered the initial max. cap and added seeds to HBBs later) Players asked for PvP gear and CLS runes made a comeback. And due to a new formulas, we have incredibly high honing bonuses and some will still argue that stats (like AGI),aren't powerful enough pointwise.
But that's just my personal point of view and IMO, this is totally irrelevant for the future of the game. Simply put, it's not important how we got here, but where we want to be next... and how we can achieve that.
And that brings me to the point of cost efficiency:
To simply lower the greenseed bonuses is easier than to replace all the powerful seeds with weaker ones. You avoid item-ID issues and you can be sure you haven't missed a single character.or seed. And of course, you prevent that anyone able to clone items can still create seeds with the old max. percentage. So even if this method doesn't fix all the issues in regard of the greenseeds, it's quite cost-efficient. Consider how much effort it would be to balance all classes and monsters => that would be an immense work and would have easily quadrupled your cost.
Let's then assume the devs plan to fix the vigor formula next. Changing a single value won't take up much time either. But if you're to balance all the monsters again, the cost would explode again and all the time & money you've invested to balance the classes & monsters to a lower seedrune maximum, was wasted.
So why wouldn't you delay any content change until more stuff gets fixed? And in most cases, the seedrune change won't result in more than a ~10% lower damage output, especially for those characters with weaker seeds. (I.e. a 10% seed being lowered to 5% isn't the same as a 40% seed being lowered to 20%)
So even if there are a few classes that suffer more than others, you should be aware that adding class-specific balance changes now (to a very inbalanced game state) won't achieve much but to increase your cost and delay the release. And most of it will be wasted, once you start considering a "real class balance".
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did i offend you? if i did then i apologize because it wasn't my intention, it's just that so many player abandon their ranger feeling too weak compared to other, so imo it's natural for them to ask something to buff up their class, and i really do love ro2 and want for every player to have fun regardless what class they play.
No worry, I'm not offended. And yes, I understand & share the feeling that rangers (and a few other classes) are much weaker compared to the most broken ones. But as I've said before, I wouldn't address these things now. What I miss, is a clear statement from WarpPortal that there are more fixes to come and that they are aware of the class inbalances and ask players for their patience. Because should WarpPortal focus on the great inbalances next, rangers will be competitve again soon enough.
To be more precise, this is the order how I would address the current game inbalances:
- a. Temporarily disabling critical hits, penetration and vigor, (addresses Battle Tactics, Meditatio, Meditation and all the x2 amplifier),
b. Lowering the general difficulty level by implementing overly powerful event buffs & items (by most parts a huge %-HP & weapon damage bonus, maybe an MP & drop chance bonus as well)
- a. Reducing the defense rates and increasing the hitpoint total by changing the defense formula & the HP-increase per class level (affects all heals & PvP-DoTs)
b. Changing // redesigning the refinement & honing system
c. Disabling auto-attacks, haste & cast speed (makes haste pointless)
d. Fixing // redesigning all other formulas
e. Speed bonuses won't stack anymore
- A major content fix according to the prior changes (lower the defense rates & damage output of monsters and get rid of the event buffs & items)
- Second damage vs. defense overhaul
=> halve all skill percentages. I.e. 250% Bash => 125%
=> all ATK-increasing effects modify the total damage instead
=> off-hand weapon balance
=> implement a free-of-cost attack skill (replaces the auto-attack but doesn't ignore global skill cooldown)
=> reimplement crit., penetration & vigor (new forms & formulas)
- Coarse class balance fix
=> general damage & cooldown overhaul
=> including an increased max. skill level for all remaining skills
=> new mana // SP system that regenerates points during combat
=> maybe new races, classes, etc.
- Second content fix
- Minor class balances (skill-based)
Edited by Greven79, 01 February 2016 - 08:34 AM.
