22 replies to this topic

[nelsky27]

Hi Guys, I wanna start a topic about bringing back life to RO2, in hopes that Gm's Dev's might start listening to our feedbacks, hopes and dreams for this game, I believe that at one point putting our inputs in forums like this just might help our game... type away!!

 

SUGGESTIONS

#1 New content (But not rushed)

#2 Bring back 5 rune slots like cazar, osiris.. etc

 

 

ps: do not respond to the posts of other players, just put what "YOU" think is the solutions, do not hate   

[Maxscha]

PvE that is less OP.

Spoiler

Or make refining easier to get.

It should not take fully refined

gear to maybe survive if/when

merely running past the mobs

that are near your same level.

 

After Osi, PvE requires escorts

for the squishier classes, and/or

refined gear to survive. This has

caused many newer players to

abandon the game after ML25.

 

Better Droprates.

Spoiler

The droprate buffs don't feel

like buffs, and plain droprates

are utterly depressing already.

Where's my sense of reward?

Also, scarcity feeds the RMTs.

 

If we can farm stuff ourselves,

then we'd be disinclined to pay

anyone else to do that for us...

 

Less RNG please.

Spoiler

There's just too much sad RNG.

Remove RNG runes altogether.

The RNG runes are where many

complaints of inequality in gear

seem to be. Also, they feed RMT.

 

Maybe make Runes that we can

quest for; increasing in values as

we level? Green/Blue5 = ML1-10

Green/Blue10 = ML 11-20 & etc...

NO trade ofc, as that'll be abused.

This way we don't have to alter the

existing runes, but offer other ways

to get them fairly, & with less RNG.

 

Imho,

these are the three things that

would make the biggest appeal.

Not just short term, but long too.

 

In order to keep a person 'addicted'

there needs to be a regular sense

of reward. If not frequent enough,

the person will seek it elsewhere.

I am not saying give us everything

we want easily. That's no fun either.

Just make the rewards less sparse.

 

Spoiler

If all the shiny items are attainable

by each of us, then RMT becomes

less tempting. Current RNG, along

with droprate & PvE difficulty, just

makes RMT too tempting for many.

RMT makes me very sad. Period.

 

TY.

Edited by Maxscha, 03 February 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Njoror]

I dig this thread.

 

We are looking into all of these ideas and discussing them for 2016, so please keep them coming.

 

We really like when players make topics like this and are able to present solid ideas. We borrow/steal them all the time!

[Greven79]

In my opinion, there is only one way:

 

#1 class & item balance

• It's easier to create a PvE content that is balanced for all classes.
• Only balance allows the development of fair & challenging enemies
• PvP will be balanced and that will give players something to do
• It's much cheaper than creating new 3D models for a map, item, etc.

#1A What to change?

Well, there was a time where things were quite balanced:... But all that is gone

• due to the high defense rates, heals & DoTs are overpowered
• due to the high vigor rates, the CC effects & lower-tier skills are inbalanced
• due to the new max. skill levels, the skill-to-skill balance is ruined
• due to the new formulas, there's no stat significance & character development

And due to all the things that were designed to address these issues: penetration, honing & refinement,

we are now too dependant on our gear and that includes the Kafra-shop as well.

 

Now, what would a logical thinking man do? - He would try to return to the original, balanced state!!!

That doesn't mean to revert everything (would break the existing content), but the result should be similar!

So, the most important question is:

 

#1B How to change all that in a cost- & time-efficient way?

The answer; Just like an insolvency administrator would do it:

Give a damn about the status quo => Survival over everything!.

 

lower the effective / resulting defense rate

"effective" defense rate, because only the applied result matters (and breaks the DoTs & heals).

So there are three ways:

• lower the defense values (base values or refinement bonus)
• alter the defense formula to lower the calculated rate
• significantly increase armor penetration

Either way, this will increase the damage taken, so you have to find a way to compensate it.

Once again, several ways.

• lower the weapon damage (incl. MATK bonuses)
• lower the skill percentages
• decrease the resulting total damage (f.e. applying an arbitary scale)
• increase the hitpoint total (either base HP, HP/lvl or HP/Vit)

F.e. the devs could let the weapon refinement increase penetration by 1% per level,

and let armor refinement increase HPs, not defense... But that's just one option.

So it's less about the "how" and more "how much would it cost".

 

That's why I would prefer the following: Temporarily remove all refinement bonuses, 

lower the defense values of heavy & leather armor (to the pre-AoV mechanic)

and triple the character HPs by altering the HP per level formula.

 

All in all, Players would lose more HP per strike (lower defense), but should also have a higher HP total.

The percentual loss of hitpoints stays the same and therefore, the PvE content doesn't have to be adjusted.

(To negate the lower healing values and potion efficiency, players should simply get some extra HPs on top.)

 

And unlike the other possibilities, there's no risk that the result could be devastating

(what could happen with a higher penetration rate)

 

vigor rate, crit. rates & co.

To make it short. I would temporarily deactivate critical, vigor, penetration, haste and cast speed (maybe even the auto-attack).

That's the most cost-efficient way to get rid of many questionable things:

• Battle Tactics, Meditatio, Meditation
• perma-stuns
• triple pets
• Two separate x2 multiplier
• Fireball & Highness Heal DoTs being amplified by crits.

The compensation:

I'd raise the total weapon damage by 30~40% and - if it doesn't affect monster attacks - increase the player hitpoints by ~30%.

If the devs want, they can create a special "chaos moon" event out of these changes, also raising the drop chance.& MP rewards.

 

The benefit:

You buy yourself time to fix the formulas. In addition, classes without secondary stats are ideal to reveal other existing skill inbalances.

IMO, skills & clases should be balanced independant of the crit. chance, vigor rates, etc. These bonuses should only support a specific gameplay

 

After these changes:

These two changes would solve most of the problems, but that's only temporary. The developers should use the time to fix the skills and formulas.

This shouldn't be complicated, mostly altering a few variables. But changes are dependant on the current implementation.

Here, it's more important to build a stable base for any future content. F.e. I recommend a 1.05^lvl-1 scale for most formulas.

 

But the devs should not hesitate to alter remaining inbalances in time. It's not about the perfect solution, only about the best short-term fix.

F.e. it might be necessary to remove wind pots, to lower the purple pot efficiency or to restrict skills with a max. level of 10.

So even if you overshoot it or create new inbalances, simply fix it and don't wait for a flawless & extensive solution.

 

#2 interesting game modes

Once they've achieved an acceptable level of balance, Gravity should focus on developing interesting PvP modes and PvE bosses.

IMO, it's not that important if there are brand-new maps or monsters and cool new features, 

it's more important to make good use of the tools you've already got.

 

League of Legends f.e. doesn't have many different levels and most champions are functional identical (or similar, but with a unique visual).

It's only the "fair" and interesting game mode that makes players so addicted. Nothing Ragnarok can't acheive as well.

 

Because I'd rather fight a known boss on a known map who became challenging again,

than to fight a new boss on a new map that is either broken or lame depending on your class choice.

Edited by Greven79, 08 February 2016 - 12:23 PM.

[Vau]

Listen to Greven's post, he reduced in one post, what we've been discussing since AoV came out. Just after that, what Maxscha says = better drop rates and less RNG.

 

If you manage to achieve that in 2016, RO2 might survive.

[LeviRD]

I would like a new PVP game mode <3 

 

Such as:

 

Spoiler

Introducing new Colo/PVP Gears or costumes for Woe, Duels or OWPVP! (Inspired by a certain game )

• Unrefineable and wouldn't allow honing
• Stable and balanced stats through all classes so that no one gets one shoted by Battle tactics or any skill finishers. (The same as Colosseum stat changes, no 3k INT 4 me ;_
• No rune slots (for obvious reasons)
• Would only allow Duels or OWPVP if said gear is equipped. Ex; If dueling someone with Serenia gear or vice versa, the duel will not commence. Although group ganking might be a problem D:
• Preferably a gear skin that looks better than serenia. (Serenia is just hideous)
• Affordable and can be crafted

 

If I'm being realistic, its too much work and might not be implemented but, ideas are ideas no matter how crap or impossible it may be

Edited by LeviRD, 05 February 2016 - 05:08 AM.

[9632130515120055620]

Aside from sweeping class balance changes that need to happen (battle tactics, DoTs, judex, hiding, cure, cruel bite etc etc etc), the #1 thing you need to achieve is equality across the playerbase. By this I mean there are items sold only in the KP shop which have such a huge influence on how strong your character is, along with overly-impossible droprates to be fixed so everyone has equal chances at getting good things. Examples of this are greenseed rolling and jawaii card drop rate which makes these items pretty much black market restricted.

 

Things I want to see removed from KP shop and made available in game:

• Scrubs. Honing is such an important part of gearing now and it's such a frustrating RNG process to go through that these need to be readily available ingame. Keep the 100% polishes and oils in KP shop to give yourself some income from cash spenders.
• Rune removers. I don't get why we have to have such a difficult and expensive time transferring our runes from one gear to another.
• Infinium. If you're not +20, you're worthless - it's a really sad truth and most casual players who haven't played through an event like doubloons cannot afford to refine and it makes such a massive difference.

 

Make people work to be able to get these items in game, but don't pull them through hell like 28 himmelmez tokens for one rune remover. You have the perfect opportunity to do this through cheny diamonds, utilise that.

[crafter4epics]

as Maxcha have said, better droprate and less RNG. This is really addicting even when you've already reached max lvl. This is a feature i really liked at Terms of Service. You got 10% chance to get a rare item by randomly opening a boss cube. The cube is a 100% drop to those who've damaged enough. It's kinda like the MVP in RO1 but in Terms of Service as many as 5 or more parties would get those cubes. Yes the friends you meet will most likely equipped w/ the best gears since the chance of getting them is easy (10% is an easy droprate compared to other games-RO1 cards were like .01 or .001 or less) but they deserved it. Hunting a boss required time tables and waiting for like 2hrs or more and sometimes they were killed easily during that time we were at max lvl already.

 

and for this game to survive, it should cater holding those pvpers. like i've said around 2yrs ago, we can't make a total balancing of the game if the devs are still to add new gears or content - if the game will end at ML50. Seeds have been balanced & is good, less 1 shots than before but still war now is better than knights, rogues can still 1shot compared to sinx.

 

List of devs' easy things for balancing:

1. make purple explorer pots from 80% HP/SP heal to 20%

2. evaluate crit since those OP classes relies heavely(BT requires a crit, hiders who crits deals 4x dmg)

3. if it's a harder task make Battle Tactics an Aura Type(you will now choose between Aura Blade, Aura Armor & Aura BT) - coz it's OP to be the highest damager that can tank

4. evaluate magic atk (this is i think the cause of OP HoT, DoT, 100k heals & pet dmg - looking into account a lvl2 sorc's mermaid that deals more dmg than a war's lvl4)

[4910131006002030110]

[DietSodaa]

Lol the picture above sums it all 

[Shinyusuke]

These talks are and will always be useless if players can't walk around new maps also if squishy but of the right level, if to kill a couple of field monsters you need a party, if you have to refine your gears only to survive to a normal monster single hit. Make my ml 30 go around forgotten payon without pain, some other ml20 around dw and so on. Where are the single player quests that allow lonely players to still level up? Where are the party dungeons where to find stronger monsters? What happened to the non aggressive monsters?
I have enough of not being able to do anything alone also in i'm an overpowered knight.
Why don't you start to nerf and rethink new maps monsters? Let me and my squishy guidies go around new maps avoiding monsters or killing them alone and i'll be happy to give back half my defence, my bt and so on.

[AikaFuwa]

These talks are and will always be useless if players can't walk around new maps also if squishy but of the right level, if to kill a couple of field monsters you need a party, if you have to refine your gears only to survive to a normal monster single hit. Make my ml 30 go around forgotten payon without pain, some other ml20 around dw and so on. Where are the single player quests that allow lonely players to still level up? Where are the party dungeons where to find stronger monsters? What happened to the non aggressive monsters?
I have enough of not being able to do anything alone also in i'm an overpowered knight.
Why don't you start to nerf and rethink new maps monsters? Let me and my squishy guidies go around new maps avoiding monsters or killing them alone and i'll be happy to give back half my defence, my bt and so on.

EXACTLY!
They should create (or even copy paste) maps so that solo players like me can solo my way to level cap!

I seriously cannot play this game now cuz I'm ML 30 and got kill with 1 - 2 hits by normal mobs at forgotten payon

[Greven79]

These talks are and will always be useless if players can't walk around new maps also if squishy but of the right level, if to kill a couple of field monsters you need a party, if you have to refine your gears only to survive to a normal monster single hit. Make my ml 30 go around forgotten payon without pain, some other ml20 around dw and so on. Where are the single player quests that allow lonely players to still level up? Where are the party dungeons where to find stronger monsters? What happened to the non aggressive monsters?
I have enough of not being able to do anything alone also in i'm an overpowered knight.
Why don't you start to nerf and rethink new maps monsters? Let me and my squishy guidies go around new maps avoiding monsters or killing them alone and i'll be happy to give back half my defence, my bt and so on.

 

Well I guess, you know my answer to that. ^_^ I've already suggested to revert the current MP system back to the LotS version (or something similar) and to either increase the reward or to decrease the level-up requirement instead.

Removing or repositioning mobs in Dark Whisper or Forgotten Payon shouldn't be that complicated either. And the survability issues should be less severe, once you disable of fix the underlying formulas (i.e. penetration rate for mobs).
 

[RlDER]

I'd rather not write a lot and just provide points because it might end up being tlldr but my concerns are very much similar to majority here. 

 

• Change defense formula to increase diminishing returns so that reaching a margin becomes close to impossible.
• Please consider removing penetration from mobs after altering defense formula. The crits are bad enough. 
• Rebalance def rates for cloth and light armor or nerf down the mobs. Wearing best in slot armor with max refine and still not being able to survive a normal mob that is your level is just wrong. Why bother spending on armor if you're not a tank when you're going to die anyway?
• Kindly refrain from adding even more attributes to balance out existing ones (like penetration n all was added).
• Please do not add any new enchant or slot mechanisms in future. The game is complex enough with all the items like guardian seals n all which are major game changers and throws balance off scale.
• Bring back xExp rates on quests as well. I wont ask for x5 on JDQ during dapara but lets say x3 during dapara and x2 during normal weekends. Reason: 60~90 mins JDQ gives around 25k MP whereas 60~90 mins grind gives me 60~100k MP and I wont die as much as JDQ. 
• Game isn't newbie friendly. Should focus on methods to not only attract new players but to make them want to stay.
• Increase drop rate of Jawaii and Wonderland mobs. No one wants to farm in Jawaii for gears because it is just fruitless. I'd like to be able to go on hunts/raids like most MMOs and farm for gears when I'm maxed level but everyone prefer waiting for Wonderland and then cry about how they got nothing there either. 
• Class balancing: Reduce crit bonus/nerf battle tactics. Nerf down dmg deal by hidden classes or reduce their movement speed while hidden (You can't even run away from an effortless 1 shot kill). Remove crits from healing skills (unnecessary threat). Nerf down cure to heal something close to renovatio and increase time for renovatio. 
• How about adding something like 40% damage reduction in WoE maps like in RO1 to make it more interesting than playing the who gets the 1 shot first game?

 

I wont say that my ideas cover all the issues but it's a start and I would like to have an enjoyable game where classes are moderately balanced and I don't have to wait 6 hours for party members. Most just don't want certain classes in a party because there are better alternatives and I'd personally like to see underplayed classes not get kicked from a party. I find it a bit disappointing that an undergeared SM is prefered more than a well geared priest by most (not saying priest is bad or underplayed). 

[Maxscha]

I know the OP said this:

 

ps: do not respond to the posts of other players, just put what "YOU" think is the solutions, do not hate   

 

Which I intended to respect, however, I want to point out that generalizations may be colouring things a bit with regard to Stealth/Hidden Classes.

 

Perhaps, if all Assassin, Rogue AND Ranger are included, then 'Stealth/Hidden Classes' is a fair way to categorize them, However, if meaning to

refer to 'Assassin and Rogue' only, Perhaps 'Stealth/Hidden Melee Classes' would be more apt. I suggest this because, in many ways, Ranger is

just so unlike the other 2 classes that have stealth, yet seem to be affected whenever a mass call for nerfing the 'Stealth/Hidden Classes' is made.

Another easy way to distinguish is to refer to Assassins and Rogues (melee stealth classes) as 'Thief Classes' when excluding the Ranger Class.

As before, I am merely cautioning generalizations that might result in mass blanket fixes instead of the much needed class specific ones... Peace.

 

Spoiler

 

***I edited out a comment, as I was shown to be the one lacking understanding on the matter. Now I understand. Thank You & Cheers!***
 

Nerf down dmg deal by hidden classes or reduce their movement speed while hidden (You can't even run away from an effortless 1 shot kill). 

 

It may be that Assassin and Rogue need a nerf, I truly cannot say, as I don't play one. Do you feel Rangers ought to be included in this list?

I am not arguing; I am merely asking for specifics, lest misunderstandings/misinterpretations result in unwanted changes. That's all...Peace.

Edited by Maxscha, 10 February 2016 - 05:04 PM.

[Saturn33]

It is true that the content design and development is deviated and no longer healthy since late content heavily depend on Soulmaker rather than regular healer like Priest and Sorcerer.

 

And it's sad that certain classes are ignored when looking for grind party, the content is no longer healthy. 

[RlDER]

 

It may be that Assassin and Rogue need a nerf, I truly cannot say, as I don't play one. Do you feel Rangers ought to be included in this list?

I am not arguing; I am merely asking for specifics, lest misunderstandings/misinterpretations result in unwanted changes. That's all...Peace.

 

Oh? I thought that mentioning the issue being a perfect 1 shot kill pretty much explained it. ^^ I don't see rangers needing a nerf per say. However, the ability to hide and avoid all the tough mobs is a privilege and with it must come some restriction/limitation like reduce movement speed. Right now an assassin can run faster than any other class and PvP is just plain stupid with all their 1 shot hit an run gameplay. Now if their movement speed wasn't so high, we could at least try to run away from one and if they want to chase you down no matter what then let them waste a speed pot or something. 

----------

 

I want to see more gear hunts like most games and bring back the usefulness of hunting certain bosses or doing dungeons like Himmelmez Chamber. How about making Eddga gears dropped from mobs and Cazar from Himmelmez's,  tradable like Osiris set?  

Keep the ones sold in shop bind on equip but create a market for those unused gears. Now this is just an idea and it has both pros and cons. The reason I considered it is because most players stop with Osiris Tomb because the content gets tougher and gettings the gears seem tedious. Not only do I need to farm and craft himmelmez set for ML30 but also max refine it to +20. Let's face it, no new player is going to be able to achieve that easily. But does the fun stop there? No, you go to Forgotten Payon with a +20 purple armor set and still die to crits from normal mobs. It just seems that all the effort put in was futile in the end.

----------

 

Current attitude of players is to spend a lot of time to look for a tank and a SM to grind after Osiris tomb. Sorcerers and priests are not the preferred ideal healing classes. Cure heals too much and lasts 30secs, whereas Reno heals nearly 1/3rd of cure and lasts 12secs. The difference here is that SM can maintain support on an entire party but a priest can only focus on a single target and barely keep the party alive. Ofcourse there is burst heal like Highness Heal but it crits 200k and takes all the threat, resulting in a dead priest. Sorcerer on the other hand has excellent group heal with LoR but the way mobs hit, it can barely keep up, making sorc the least ideal healer type. 

 

I wont suggest we balance classes first and then go for content balancing because we might end up with OP classes and go back to nerfing classes again. It should be done together. With the recent rune nerfs, PvE suffered the most and the game is becoming less enjoyable. I would like to see mobs nerfed down and penetration removed because the intent was to make tanks not be too OP but it made light armor users wet paper in front of normal mobs. 

 

• Address specific issues rather than generalizing it and throwing a blanket nerf like Maxscha says.
• Only heavy armors have super high defense rates so please do not punish cloth/light armor users for it.
• Only certain classes have really overpowered critical hit, so instead of nerfing crit just nerf those classes.
• Content after Osiris Tomb is not only difficult but FP and Jawaii is just not fun for even a tank class.
• Balance out healing classes so that SM is not the only preferred healing class in any party.
• Boost/improve underplayed classes to they're a bit more useful and not get kicked from every party.
• Change defense formula if you have to but please consider removing penetration from normal mobs. I know I'm repeating it but I can't stress this enough. In the name of balancing high def rates achieved by tanks, non-tanks are punished the most here.

 

Add other automated events that rely on chance instead of Trivia. Only a handful take part in a fast typing contest and the same people keep winning it over and over. And let's not forget that it favors only older players who are well-versed in the game. I'm not saying trivia is a bad thing but consider other automated events where all players have equal opportunities to win the same prizes. 

 

A new player can go about farming gears and runes but there is just no way he/she can afford to refine the gears to +20 easily. There is little to no means of farming zeny from a fresh start to be able to afford a refining service. I'm not asking to make zeny something that is easy to obtain. I'm suggesting that we make the game newbie friendly and provide more sources for any beginner to be able to do things. I don't mean more freebies and hand-outs. How about having refining supplies sold at Cheny and not in a RNG based box. You can move a lot of Kafra shop items to Cheny since diamonds can be purchased for KP already and the result is the same. Please don't put it in a box with rng and make it harder to obtain. Look what happened to rune removers, during sale it came down to 12k per piece but now it is at 42k per piece at the lowest price. It's just disappointing and demotivating to know that players had it easy in the past and current or new players have to deal with the way things are now. 

 

End of the day, it's a game and the idea is to play and have fun with friends. I don't mind some grinding and a good challenge with raids and boss hunts every once in a while. But even the normal content is less enjoyable and difficult. Any new player needs to shed blood and tears to get anywhere in the game.

[Shinyusuke]

just 2 cents:

 

1)delete the party bonus exp if you go in a party your exp need to be divided between your party members as it was before

   reduce the exp needed to level up to a reasonable amount to be able to level up alone

   if you don't want stay alone you can level up in party killing mobs faster and with less risks but gaining less exp per kill

 

2) reduce the defence amount to what was before AOV so that tank  classes has better defence but weren't able to hit the cap

    (lv50 gears has less that half def than ml1 gears)

 

3)reduce all the stats to a reasonable amountfor all the gears over lv50 (adjusting the gear progression)

 

4) rescale all the monsters for the actual force of te single player

 

5) delete the exp bonuses, the dapara exp week is just silly if one player can't play that week he didn't lost a week but an entire month of grind!!!

    Instead reduce exp needed and rebalance exp given by quests.

 

I have a last question for Njoror do you want this game keep going? Warpportal is the last provider running RO2 isn't the time to make an ultimatum to gravity?

[Greven79]

Oh? I thought that mentioning the issue being a perfect 1 shot kill pretty much explained it. ^^ I don't see rangers needing a nerf per say. However, the ability to hide and avoid all the tough mobs is a privilege and with it must come some restriction/limitation like reduce movement speed. Right now an assassin can run faster than any other class and PvP is just plain stupid with all their 1 shot hit an run gameplay. Now if their movement speed wasn't so high, we could at least try to run away from one and if they want to chase you down no matter what then let them waste a speed pot or something.
 
[...]
 
Sorcerers and priests are not the preferred ideal healing classes. Cure heals too much and lasts 30secs, whereas Reno heals nearly 1/3rd of cure and lasts 12secs. The difference here is that SM can maintain support on an entire party but a priest can only focus on a single target and barely keep the party alive. Ofcourse there is burst heal like Highness Heal but it crits 200k and takes all the threat, resulting in a dead priest. Sorcerer on the other hand has excellent group heal with LoR but the way mobs hit, it can barely keep up, making sorc the least ideal healer type.

 
+1 for these two part (also an indirect answer to Saturn33)
 

I wont suggest we balance classes first and then go for content balancing because we might end up with OP classes and go back to nerfing classes again. It should be done together. With the recent rune nerfs, PvE suffered the most and the game is becoming less enjoyable.

 
Here, I wish you would have mentioned the class and the seedrune percentages you're referring to. Because the lower the seedrune percentages, the lower the nerf. In other words, only those with unusual high percentages suffer the most. In my case f.e., I had a power 18% and an armor 13% when I leveled my last character. So this nerf wouldn't have affected my leveling experience that much.

 

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not interested in starting another discussion! Although I believe that this was the right thing to do, I wouldn't have started with this change. It's more the advice that being accurate makes it easier to evaluate how to address this issue in particular. For my case, a temporary 5~10% damage or HP boost would have been enough. So the devs could have improved the Pronera buffs f.e.

 

But now to the point that really made me reply:

 

I wont suggest we balance classes first and then go for content balancing because we might end up with OP classes and go back to nerfing classes again.

 

I don't see how fixing classes (independantly of any content) might end up in OP classes as soon as you fix a content later. I mean, it's such such an incredibly severe statement...but no details, no reasons were given!

 

Doesn't "class balance" mean to lower the inbalances? So shouldn't it get easier to fix other things relating to that, the fewer inbalances you have to consider? So how could this ever lead to OP classes, unless you screw things over despite fewer things to consider?

Let's check the extremes: The most perfect (but unreasonable) class balance I could think of is one where classes are identical. How could a content change break identical things?

Edited by Greven79, 10 February 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[RlDER]

 I don't see how fixing classes (independantly of any content) might end up in OP classes as soon as you fix a content later. I mean, it's such such an incredibly severe statement...but no details, no reasons were given!

 

Doesn't "class balance" mean to lower the inbalances? So shouldn't it get easier to fix other things relating to that, the fewer inbalances you have to consider? So how could this ever lead to OP classes, unless you screw things over despite fewer things to consider?

Let's check the extremes: The most perfect (but unreasonable) class balance I could think of is one where classes are identical. How could a content change break identical things?

 

I was taking into mind the way things have been handled so far where there is focus on a single criteria without taking into account how other parts of the game get affected by it. I personally don't see the green seed nerfs as that big a deal because it's like you said, only those with high numbers suffer from it. By content, I was referring to things like mobs and items and there I was trying to point out that balancing requires focus on both classes and content rather than one or the other. Say they go ahead and do class balancing right now with the current content in mind and later on when they nerf down mobs (say remove penetration), there's a possibility that certain classes will be at an advantage. Perhaps I worded it wrongly because I was trying to point out that when either is done, everything has to be taken into consideration and how each nerf affects different classes. Ideally I would like to see it done together, assuming that they would give attention to how the changes affect overall gameplay in the end. Besides, if they go ahead and nerf down classes first and if the existing content proves to be even more difficult, it might only piss off more players. 

[Maxscha]

Add other automated events that rely on chance instead of Trivia. Only a handful take part in a fast typing contest and the same people keep winning it over and over. And let's not forget that it favors only older players who are well-versed in the game. I'm not saying trivia is a bad thing but consider other automated events where all players have equal opportunities to win the same prizes. 

 

These were the main reason given for the cancellation of the VEP (Volunteer Event Planner) Program: too few participants, & regular repeat winners.

However, I do not see any IN Game Community Events now that can say they have alleviated these concerns. Even H&S is not without it's few flaws.

I'm not suggesting we eliminate the current offerings, but asking to consider other offerings, just as RIDER suggested. Perhaps we need VEPs again?

 

 

Concerning clarity regarding stealth/hiding classes...

(but quite off topic from the original post; apologies.)

Spoiler

 

Oh? I thought that mentioning the issue being a perfect 1 shot kill pretty much explained it. ^^ I don't see rangers needing a nerf per say. However, the ability to hide and avoid all the tough mobs is a privilege and with it must come some restriction/limitation like reduce movement speed. Right now an assassin can run faster than any other class and PvP is just plain stupid with all their 1 shot hit an run gameplay. Now if their movement speed wasn't so high, we could at least try to run away from one and if they want to chase you down no matter what then let them waste a speed pot or something. 

 

I now understand what you mean, and I agree that one-shot-kills shouldn't be so prolific in PvP; they aren't fun.

I confess to being out of the PvP experience, in general, as I prefer PvE. And we both agree PvE needs a fix!!!

I agree with every suggestion you made in post #18, and your assessment of Current Player Attitude.               

 

 

As for hide/stealth; most Rangers only put one point in it (and none in camo mastery), so they do move slower.

This, however, is not the case with Assassin's, as far as I can tell. They all seem to zoooom like a hurricane!

Assassins seem to zoom so fast, both in stealth and out. I haven't seen enough Rogues to know their speed.

 

The cost for a Ranger moving faster in Camo is 3-5 more skill points; which come with no other game bonuses...

There is no additional damage dealt, no ability to re-hide, no added dodge/parry bonuses, no relevant cd change.

Perhaps Assassins/Rogues get too much for their skill points if they get both speed & combat bonuses each rank?

 

I'd very happily surrender any/all extra damage from stealth, but I'd very unhappily surrender movement speed, lol.

It's true that simply attacking from stealth in itself is a bonus, making the stealth players the most likely first hitters...

And being able to move in stealth is really enough of a bonus considering all the things that allows a player to do.

 

I agree that it is a privilege, however, it is also a coping mechanism. Since all non-tank classes are just too squishy,

they all need a way to cope. Most non-tank classes have one of two ways to cope: using either heal or hide. (Not Wiz)

Assassin/Rogue are the only ones that have both coping mechanisms at their disposal. Do correct me if I am wrong.

 

That's again why I ask for clarity when referring to Stealth/Hiding Classes; and caution speaking in generalizations.

Rangers are just so unlike the Stealth-Melee Classes that derive from Thief. Assassins/Rogues have extra coping.

That all being said, I hope I didn't seem to argue, I merely wanted to understand & clarify. Now I have. Thank You.

 

Cheers! 

 

Edited by Maxscha, 10 February 2016 - 05:37 PM.

[nelsky27]

Bump! Keep them suggestions coming! Do not start any arguments here pls 

 

[freakygin]

Please make certain "Job" useful again.

 

Chef

New Recipe :

- Frildora Barbeque = Increase STR ? % for 60 minutes

- Vadon Soup = Increase VIT ? % for 60 minutes

- Eddga Jr Crispy Skin = Increase AGI ? % for 60 minutes

- etc

 

I'm sure people will dig this new food for WoE / JDQ

And please consider, gathering ingredients should be doable

Or should i explain what would happen if one try to solo kill and gather ingredients from FP / Jawaii?

 

Heavenly Sausage? Soul Shifting Barbeque? Stomach Meat Roll?

It's safe to say that those food are hard to cook and completely worthless

 

Alchemist :

New recipe for stat buff potions

 

Why the Dev hate Chef so much?