77 replies to this topic

[Starkespada1]

When you asked alteris about lifting the enchant and sc restrictions from IM accessories at 11:35 in the youtube video and he answered with something about lifting the restrictions on enchant insurance scrolls and all the other IM items and about the gold seller problems it sorta made me face palm    

 

When i asked the question i was talking about being able to like +20 and legend new origin belts and stuff  

[zirothos]

i got one question here can you do a Q/A in text of what they talk in the live stream in a lock topic mode so it just to show the answer in text

Edited by zirothos, 23 February 2016 - 12:24 PM.

[5143121023173906760]

It was a nice livestream ! Even if, just like Coolsam I missed it.

So I directly rushed on YouTube to watch this and I'm pretty happy of what have been said there, keep doing what you're doing !

By the way, you got some serious level of hate in your comments section.

[SammyFM]

The answere to all questions: "We are to slow! If you want things be done faster, hire pros!"

Let's see what time can do

Edited by SammyFM, 23 February 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[Rainnowx]

Someone should have asked if there are going to be any alterations on Water Battlesquare.

 

 

#SpawnZoneAssaultBugAbuse

[flubsy]

My understanding from them is that they don't know anything about pvp.

Too many people give suggestions about pvp when they don't pvp themselves because it's "unfair"

 

Not enough nerfs on classes that need nerfs and not enough buffs on classes that need buffs.

[SammyFM]

Someone should have asked if there are going to be any alterations on Water Battlesquare.

 

 

#SpawnZoneAssaultBugAbuse

 

 

My understanding from them is that they don't know anything about pvp.

Too many people give suggestions about pvp when they don't pvp themselves because it's "unfair"

 

Not enough nerfs on classes that need nerfs and not enough buffs on classes that need buffs.

 

 

 

Why don't we (the pvp player) stick together and talk about how to make pvp "fair", what to nerf and what to buff, than make our ideas public, instead of just do a billion threads and a bajillion tickets? We are thoes who know the most issues afterall.

[Fliederduft78]

My understanding from them is that they don't know anything about pvp.

Too many people give suggestions about pvp when they don't pvp themselves because it's "unfair"

 

Not enough nerfs on classes that need nerfs and not enough buffs on classes that need buffs.

 

That's not quite right. 

 

First, Alteris said in the stream that he does do PVP and actually enjoys to do so (not only in DS). So here you guys got your PVP staff part in.

 

Second, PvP currently is "unfair" due to all the bad peole cheating in it. Alteris said "cheating in pvp does suck" and that they are fully aware of the cheating that is going on in PVP. Alteris even talked about a lot of video proof they got and are using to fight that cheating problem. I guess he is talking about the dev point of view to "get rid/fighting" of it, giggle.

 

Third, Alteris clearly stated that class balancing, skill adjustments are going to happen after the cheating problems in PVP are eliminated. Because you can't build any balance in a system full of cheating that affects skills and damage amounts. Alteris said "some classes get much stronger by the usage of cheats" and a balancing with the cheating in is not possible. ( sure, cause cheating makes an already imbalanced system even worse/even more imbalanced)

 

Alteris said he wants to hear the community opion on balancing classes/skills when this point is reached (after the cheating problem in PVP is solved and fixes of old bugs are in). Should mention that he spoke about many little changes and not a big one all in one, so it is easier to do tweaks here and there.

 

So I think you PVP guys can actually be happy. You now know your video proof reached the staff, that the staff is aware of it and it actually is in use to work against the current cheating problem in pvp. Plus as soon as it is about actual class balancing/skill balancing your opinion on things will be heard by the staff and that is what you guys asked for (in the stream).

So be happy, you got what you asked for.

 

 

Edit:

 

Alteris even spoke about the imbalanced element system and that it needs adjustments.....

 

Oh yes and that all the old bugs shall be fixed first before new stuffs come in - a pretty good thing in my opnion.

 

Edited by Fliederduft78, 24 February 2016 - 03:19 AM.

[SammyFM]

That's not quite right. 

 

First, Alteris said in the stream that he does do PVP and actually enjoys to do so (not only in DS). So here you guys got your PVP staff part in.

 

 

The problem at this point is, Alteris admit that he is new to the game. It will take him time to pick a class and learn about all the skills and combos, if he never played this game before. So even if he like PvP in other games, he can't talk about PvP in Dragon Saga right now.

I hope he will catch up to become our PvP staff though.

Edited by SammyFM, 24 February 2016 - 03:24 AM.

[flubsy]

What time in the video does he actually say he pvps?  As I only had it on in the background and the only thing he talks about is "cheating".

From my knowledge his character is still below 40 and still fairly new to the game.  And pvp below 40 is almost non existent.  I would be hard pressed to count that as a pvper compared to players like myself that have 1 of every class for pvping.

 

And I have no idea what he means by "cheating".  It was very unclear what he was talking about.

Unless you call macro's cheating and edit/creating scripts which isn't really "cheating" per say depending on what "cheating" is.  As keyboards come with macros.  Editing/creating scripts or messing with client code, there isn't much to prove it as it looks exactly the same as someone using macros.  (unless they're changing values of their character)

Either way that can't be stopped unless you put a cap on atkspd, which I'm sure people don't want.  

 

This poses the question of nerfing or buffing skills can actually be the remedy to "cheating".  Whatever "cheating" means.

 

I don't know how vague answers can make someone happy, it only makes players more frustrated >_>

Edited by flubsy, 24 February 2016 - 03:33 AM.

[Fliederduft78]

Flubsy, watch the video again. Alteris definitely says he does pvp. (if I'm right he even says he likes it.......)

 

The problem at this point is, Alteris admit that he is new to the game. It will take him time to pick a class and learn about all the skills and combos, if he never played this game before. So even if he like PvP in other games, he can't talk about PvP in Dragon Saga right now.

I hope he will catch up to become our PvP staff though.

 

 

Why don't we (the pvp player) stick together and talk about how to make pvp "fair", what to nerf and what to buff, than make our ideas public, instead of just do a billion threads and a bajillion tickets? We are thoes who know the most issues afterall.

 

Do this ^

 

Like I said Alteris wants to hear the community opinion as soon as it comes to class balancing and skill balancing. You guys know best, so help the staff once the time is there. Be helpful and actually stick together.

Edited by Fliederduft78, 24 February 2016 - 03:50 AM.

[SammyFM]

What time in the video does he actually say he pvps?  As I only had it on in the background and the only thing he talks about is "cheating".

From my knowledge his character is still below 40 and still fairly new to the game.  And pvp below 40 is almost non existent.  I would be hard pressed to count that as a pvper compared to players like myself that have 1 of every class for pvping.

 

 

He says at 25:53 that he PvPs, but not specify if he does it in DS
He admits to be new at 29:44

[Zackx23]

What time in the video does he actually say he pvps?  As I only had it on in the background and the only thing he talks about is "cheating".

From my knowledge his character is still below 40 and still fairly new to the game.  And pvp below 40 is almost non existent.  I would be hard pressed to count that as a pvper compared to players like myself that have 1 of every class for pvping.

 

And I have no idea what he means by "cheating".  It was very unclear what he was talking about.

Unless you call macro's cheating and edit/creating scripts which isn't really "cheating" per say depending on what "cheating" is.  As keyboards come with macros.  Editing/creating scripts or messing with client code, there isn't much to prove it as it looks exactly the same as someone using macros.  (unless they're changing values of their character)

Either way that can't be stopped unless you put a cap on atkspd, which I'm sure people don't want.  

 

This poses the question of nerfing or buffing skills can actually be the remedy to "cheating".  Whatever "cheating" means.

 

I don't know how vague answers can make someone happy, it only makes players more frustrated >_>

 

maybe some point of "cheating" he was talking about include the ridiculous attack range and attack speed some players could get in pvp no matter how much attack speed their character really got (character with about 250% hits faster than 350%+; player get hit by attacks even when the player who hit them is not in sight at all)

[SammyFM]

ridiculous attack range and attack speed

 

player get hit by attacks even when the player who hit them is not in sight at all

 

Some items increase the attack range

Indeed, there is a script to increase attack speed for ca. 30%

Consider the ping and delay of both player

Edited by SammyFM, 24 February 2016 - 04:03 AM.

[flubsy]

All I heard from it is that he's new to the game and that he enjoys pvp in mmo's, not specifically Dragon Saga.

Like I said the answers are extremely vague to be reassuring.

 

Attack Speed and range, I understand, but there really isn't much that can be done, unless you nerf "x" and "z" atk to oblivion.  Which is what they did before until elements was reintroduced.

 

The thing I don't like about this game is how laggy players are rewarded in PvP instead of punished, but it's something everyone learns to play in for the past 9 years.  And I suppose for this server 6-7 years.

[SammyFM]

What the staff could do: "hire" (hahaha) people who know all classes very well and know how to pvp.

 

Don't you see? Dat flub want it so much he even take his time to post stuff! #toomuchegotopostothertopics

[Popcorn]

Some items increase the attack range

Indeed, there is a script to increase attack speed for ca. 30%

Consider the ping and delay of both player

 

If you know about this "script" feel free to send it to me for investigation.

 

What the staff could do: "hire" (hahaha) people who know all classes very well and know how to pvp.

 

Don't you see? Dat flub want it so much he even take his time to post stuff! #toomuchegotopostothertopics

 

We are developers. You won't find any company where a developer needs to be a PvP or PvE player generally. Alteris plays many PvP games - including DS - and he knows about the good and bad things. I am a PvE player and I know about PvE stuff. However, in first place I am a developer working on the game to implement things which need to be implemented and fixed and all that development stuff.

 

As for the time we need to do things - we are not slow - we are just a small company. We are working with a 100K part puzzle and have to clean up all the mess the former devs did to the game, like leaving bugs in-game for years and building new content on top of them which results in even more bugs.

Imagine a big AAA title company - they need 2~4 years to build a new game from scratch - no need to dig through a lot of messed up code, with a team size of 80+ (80 has been considered as a small team by a big AAA title development company - original quote: We had only a small team of 80 men). And I bet you know we don't of a "small team" of 80 men.

 

We are trying our very best to do what we can - you players want: Balancing, no Cheating, Content, a stable game, bug fixes, support, events - and this is totally okay, because this is what also WE, the developers, want. But we can do it only step by step. As Alteris already said, the main focus is to mitigate the cheating (that's for PvP), also to fix the lot of small and bigger bugs (for PvP and PvE) that are in the game for ages.

 

I think it's a good idea if the players who prefer to play PvP would stick together and work on suggestions how to make PvP a better place. You can separate PvP and PvE in your thoughts. I personally think separating PvP and PvE would be a good idea at least as a basis for ideas. I would like to split it, because we all know from the past that balancing in PvP can affect PvE in a negative way and vice versa.

Anyways, please know that it is important not to think only about your own preferred class or playing style. We need balanced classes, especially when it comes to PvP. No game is really able to balance PvP 100%, but we can at least try to get as close as possible to it.

Also I can't promise that everything you may suggest will be implemented this way. Finally there are adjustments needed here and there or idea have to be discarded completely for whatever reason. About the element system, we are aware that a real PvP balancing is not possible as long as we have this messed up element system. There are ideas how to change it, but since they're only ideas and nothing more I won't present them to you yet. Ideas for element system balancing are appreciated also ideas how to handle all the duped socket cards in-game. I don't want that you're thinking we do not know about this problem or are ignoring it, but handling this issue is not as easy as it may look.

 

If you want to discuss about such things - and I mean discuss, not accuse each other, not flame, not argue, not insult each other - please open a new topic. Keep your topics clean. Continue posting discussions about it here makes this topic messed up and it's hard for us to look over the ideas and suggestions which takes even more time.

 

The last thing I would like to ask everyone for is to be patient. We know about the situation this game has for years now, but - and this is not meant vicious - we are only humans and not magicians.

[SammyFM]

If you know about this "script" feel free to send it to me for investigation.

 

 

We are developers. You won't find any company where a developer needs to be a PvP or PvE player generally. Alteris plays many PvP games - including DS - and he knows about the good and bad things. I am a PvE player and I know about PvE stuff. However, in first place I am a developer working on the game to implement things which need to be implemented and fixed and all that development stuff.

 

As for the time we need to do things - we are not slow - we are just a small company. We are working with a 100K part puzzle and have to clean up all the mess the former devs did to the game, like leaving bugs in-game for years and building new content on top of them which results in even more bugs.

Imagine a big AAA title company - they need 2~4 years to build a new game from scratch - no need to dig through a lot of messed up code, with a team size of 80+ (80 has been considered as a small team by a big AAA title development company - original quote: We had only a small team of 80 men). And I bet you know we don't of a "small team" of 80 men.

 

We are trying our very best to do what we can - you players want: Balancing, no Cheating, Content, a stable game, bug fixes, support, events - and this is totally okay, because this is what also WE, the developers, want. But can do it only step by step. As Alteris already said, the main focus is to mitigate the cheating (that's for PvP), also to fix the lot of small and bigger bugs (for PvP and PvE) that are in the game for ages.

 

I think it's a good idea if the players who prefer to play PvP would stick together and work on suggestions how to make PvP a better place. You can separate PvP and PvE in your thoughts. I personally think separating PvP and PvE would be a good idea at least as a basis for ideas. I would like to split it, because we all know from the past that balancing in PvP can affect PvE in a negative way and vice versa.

Anyways, please know that it is important not to think only about your own preferred class or playing style. We need balanced classes, especially when it comes to PvP. No game is really able to balance PvP 100%, but we can at least try to get as close as possible to it.

Also I can't promise that everything you may suggest will be implemented this way. Finally there are adjustments needed here and there or idea have to be discarded completely for whatever reason. About the element system, we are aware that a real PvP balancing is not possible as long as we have this messed up element system. There are ideas how to change it, but since they're only ideas and nothing more I won't present them to you yet. Ideas for element system balancing are appreciated also ideas how to handle all the duped socket cards in-game. I don't want that you're thinking we do not know about this problem or are ignoring it, but handling this issue is not as easy as it may look.

 

If you want to discuss about such things - and I mean discuss, not accuse each other, not flame, not argue, not insult each other - please open a new topic. Keep your topics clean. Continue posting discussions about it here makes this topic messed up and it's hard for us to look over the ideas and suggestions which takes even more time.

 

The last thing I would like to ask everyone for is to be patient. We know about the situation this game has for years now, but - and this is not meant vicious - we are only humans and not magicians.

 

I already sent everything I know to Dragonlark (including screenshots)

 

OMG I DONT WANT TO READ THIS ALL
 

[SammyFM]

I didn't meant it in the mean way when I said "you are slow". I saw the stream, you have a lot work to do. You are "slow" untill you clean up the old mess.

I just wrote it so people maybe imagine how much work this is.

Edited by SammyFM, 24 February 2016 - 04:57 AM.

[Coolsam]

So a few things I learned about the Q&A;

 

1. I was right when I said the DS client, code and files are a big jumbled mess. Which is why development taking so long is understandable.
2. DSxRequiem won't happen.
3. No plans for a 2nd server for EU at this time.
4. New goal; 1 MILLION PEOPLE!
5. Adorable new mounts.
6. Older content reviving is very difficult (i.e. older versions of maps, bringing back unfinished areas.)
7. Gravity can't organize worth a damn.

As for the developer's PvP experience; He's clearly played a number of games, knows of the Korean developer's style in content/balancing which he admits is unhealthy, and wants to ensure everything is done right. His idea of several tweak patches over one big balance patch is actually good as it's time to pinpoint what's right and what's wrong. He may or may not have PvP'ed in Dragon Saga, but he's got experience for knowing how it's supposed to be done. He even approved of a discussion thread and is open to suggestions.

 

As for their goal of Anti-cheating. It's good that it's their current priority. He gave a good explanation as some aspects are difficult to balance when people will complain about a cheater's variant when a normal variant doesn't require as much tweaking.

[SammyFM]

      4. New goal; 1 MILLION PEOPLE!

 

How about: everyone print several posters and pin them in their town? 1 billion people? no problem!

Edited by SammyFM, 24 February 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[checksome]

Give him some time to study the game. Good thing that he will look in to the pvp side of the game. Besides he's one of the staff and can request for the items that he wants so he can easily understand pvp.

[Precrush]

The answers weren't that vague and you need only read between the lines. This is I think the first time we got a dev talking about the game in a big way and this already cleared up a lot of questions I had, especially about their priorities and what they are currently doing. A lot of the questions asked things that are out of the question right now, what do you expect him to answer to those? He explained why they can't do a lot of the stuff we all want anytime soon pretty well. There's lots of time till summer which is again a time MMO's fight for new players, I believe the team can pull off something great for that!

Edited by Precrush, 24 February 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Spaarky]

What time in the video does he actually say he pvps?  As I only had it on in the background and the only thing he talks about is "cheating".

From my knowledge his character is still below 40 and still fairly new to the game.  And pvp below 40 is almost non existent.  I would be hard pressed to count that as a pvper compared to players like myself that have 1 of every class for pvping.

 

And I have no idea what he means by "cheating".  It was very unclear what he was talking about.

Unless you call macro's cheating and edit/creating scripts which isn't really "cheating" per say depending on what "cheating" is.  As keyboards come with macros.  Editing/creating scripts or messing with client code, there isn't much to prove it as it looks exactly the same as someone using macros.  (unless they're changing values of their character)

Either way that can't be stopped unless you put a cap on atkspd, which I'm sure people don't want.  

 

This poses the question of nerfing or buffing skills can actually be the remedy to "cheating".  Whatever "cheating" means.

 

I don't know how vague answers can make someone happy, it only makes players more frustrated >_>

 

He said if you think you can do a better job blancing as a experienced PvPer they are glad to listen out to you, ready to do some maths and put down time in balancing PvP? Because all i know it is definetly not an easy task, I'm just happy they are still trying to make PvP better.

 

I remember EU days when there as pages and pages of PvP rooms even years after the release but when Dragonkin hit it got alot unbalanced, classes got nerfed to the ground and everything just fell together, just let WP do their thing and try and build this back up please? I bet they are working as hard as they can.

Edited by kaka1312, 24 February 2016 - 11:08 PM.

[Spaarky]

So a few things I learned about the Q&A;

 

1. I was right when I said the DS client, code and files are a big jumbled mess. Which is why development taking so long is understandable.
2. DSxRequiem won't happen.
3. No plans for a 2nd server for EU at this time.
4. New goal; 1 MILLION PEOPLE!
5. Adorable new mounts.
6. Older content reviving is very difficult (i.e. older versions of maps, bringing back unfinished areas.)
7. Gravity can't organize worth a damn.
8. They are balancing quests to give them more exp so you get your "arcade" style of the game back

As for the developer's PvP experience; He's clearly played a number of games, knows of the Korean developer's style in content/balancing which he admits is unhealthy, and wants to ensure everything is done right. His idea of several tweak patches over one big balance patch is actually good as it's time to pinpoint what's right and what's wrong. He may or may not have PvP'ed in Dragon Saga, but he's got experience for knowing how it's supposed to be done. He even approved of a discussion thread and is open to suggestions.

 

As for their goal of Anti-cheating. It's good that it's their current priority. He gave a good explanation as some aspects are difficult to balance when people will complain about a cheater's variant when a normal variant doesn't require as much tweaking.

 

Fixed it

 

EDIT: Sorry for double post, posted the 1st one before i saw CoolSams post i had to fix Was my question! 

Edited by kaka1312, 24 February 2016 - 11:09 PM.