28 replies to this topic

[Miyahira]

this is my build for warlock...
http://web.hc.keio.a...AbsqSaBebnacHcY

I heard that frost nova is now cool, but I wanted to keep SG becasue of it's power.... I think this is a good pvm/WoE build

stats will go as follows
110 - int
100 - vit
95 - dex
80 - luk

Discuss !!

Edited by Miyahira, 01 December 2010 - 05:19 PM.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

what? Frost nova is good?

[dragoonlordz]

lol oops.

Got moved as I was typing for it to be moved to more appropriate place.

Dam Mod's are quick.

Edited by dragoonlordz, 01 December 2010 - 05:30 PM.

[Minchi]

lol oops.

Question? Why the 80 luk

[Miyahira]

yeah quick cast time, and no cast delay. spam it's brains out, setup for CL or CR or w/e you fancy. AND since everything will be close together you know what's going on with the mons.

[Miyahira]

it's a better investment for matk then the 10 more int. I can get more luk for that amount of what it will cost me 10 more int at that lvl

[Minchi]

it's a better investment for matk then the 10 more int. I can get more luk for that amount of what it will cost me 10 more int at that lvl

wow i did not know that o.o

[Minchi]

it's a better investment for matk then the 10 more int. I can get more luk for that amount of what it will cost me 10 more int at that lvl

wow i did not know that o.o

[Hiban]

Frost Nova isn't really great at all. Jack Frost is an advancement of frost nova. Jack Frost's wide range and 100% freezing chance makes this skill much more dominant. Don't get frost nova. It really is a joke to Jack Frost use the skill points for something better. Storm Gust..I can't argue there. Storm Gust of course is still one of the best AoEs before renewal and can still be put up to good use in renewal since We warlocks can instant cast now. your stat build looks well. Although remember you want 100vit TOTAL (with gears job bonuses and all). In addition, remember that warlocks can wear Survivors Manteu (+10vit) and save you up a good 100stat points (at high level) for another stat! (which is one of the best Garments for mage classes). Int you want the highest preferably max (but that's up to you). Int really is a must for a warlock class remember that 2int=1dex when it comes to variable cast time reduction, so that tells you, you don't need more dex than int (like it used to be before renewal) but of course your dex shouldn't be that low either try to shoot for a total of 130dex (with gears and all) that will reduce roughly 80% cast time of the variable cast time. If you plan on getting luck for that magic attack keep it in multiples of 3 and to get the fullest potential of luk...get a total of 100 for the curses immunity.

As for skills:
My first concern is radius. Radius and Recognized spell are what makes you a Warlock.Therefor you should get them as close to max as possible. Remember that Recognized spell is still the same effect but the duration is what changes per level unlike radius which its effect is reduced by the lower the level is. what I'm trying to tell you is...perhaps drop one point of recognized spell and give it to Radius. Radius is VERY important because when maxed, it reduces 20% FIXED CAST TIME not VARIABLE CAST TIME. cast time is now made up to two branches Variable cast time (cast time that can be reduced by dex) and Fixed cast time (cast time that cannot be reduced by dex or anything with the exception of radius skill). Fixed cast time is the cast time that basically says "This is the fastest you can cast a spell. Besides that your skill build looks fine. I will add this though and you are not to listen if you want (my biased opinion): Chain lightning is crap. Its overall damage takes way too long to deliver and guess what...it spreads individually from monster to monster randomly! to make it even more stupid in mobs. It sure looks cool though! LOL chain lighting is like the new LOV. Everyone gets it just because it looks FREAKIN COOL but it is crap! lmao.

[Miyahira]

well from what I know, you'd get frost nova for a quick freezing. the reason I would want that instead of jack frost is that jack frost freezes stuff WAY far away from you, and that you'd want stuff to stick together. I understand that it's not something used to kill, but maybe you can use it inderectly to kill. like using SG1 back in the day.I'm really worried about jack frost/frost misty hitting stuff that I don't want it to hit. iono I guess I'm a bit more paranoid. Also what would you do for wind element? the problem is, that they boned the other skills. and thanks for the hint on radius and recognized spell. I didn't know what was really going on with them. Also, if someone tell me if it's worth taking a skill point out of soul drain for freezing spell. thanks

[Miyahira]

edited from peoples suggestions from this forum on RO and through wiki.

http://web.hc.keio.a...AbsqSaOebjOcHcY

freezing spell looks hella handy so I think I'll get that. I'm gonna take a skill point from grav field and put it into that. I'm thinking after a while I can do frost nova > freezing spell (instacast CR) which will be a cool combo pvm.

[Fibrizzo]

Frost Nova isn't really great at all. Jack Frost is an advancement of frost nova. Jack Frost's wide range and 100% freezing chance makes this skill much more dominant. Don't get frost nova. It really is a joke to Jack Frost use the skill points for something better. Storm Gust..I can't argue there. Storm Gust of course is still one of the best AoEs before renewal and can still be put up to good use in renewal since We warlocks can instant cast now. your stat build looks well. Although remember you want 100vit TOTAL (with gears job bonuses and all). In addition, remember that warlocks can wear Survivors Manteu (+10vit) and save you up a good 100stat points (at high level) for another stat! (which is one of the best Garments for mage classes). Int you want the highest preferably max (but that's up to you). Int really is a must for a warlock class remember that 2int=1dex when it comes to variable cast time reduction, so that tells you, you don't need more dex than int (like it used to be before renewal) but of course your dex shouldn't be that low either try to shoot for a total of 130dex (with gears and all) that will reduce roughly 80% cast time of the variable cast time. If you plan on getting luck for that magic attack keep it in multiples of 3 and to get the fullest potential of luk...get a total of 100 for the curses immunity.

As for skills:
My first concern is radius. Radius and Recognized spell are what makes you a Warlock.Therefor you should get them as close to max as possible. Remember that Recognized spell is still the same effect but the duration is what changes per level unlike radius which its effect is reduced by the lower the level is. what I'm trying to tell you is...perhaps drop one point of recognized spell and give it to Radius. Radius is VERY important because when maxed, it reduces 20% FIXED CAST TIME not VARIABLE CAST TIME. cast time is now made up to two branches Variable cast time (cast time that can be reduced by dex) and Fixed cast time (cast time that cannot be reduced by dex or anything with the exception of radius skill). Fixed cast time is the cast time that basically says "This is the fastest you can cast a spell. Besides that your skill build looks fine. I will add this though and you are not to listen if you want (my biased opinion): Chain lightning is crap. Its overall damage takes way too long to deliver and guess what...it spreads individually from monster to monster randomly! to make it even more stupid in mobs. It sure looks cool though! LOL chain lighting is like the new LOV. Everyone gets it just because it looks FREAKIN COOL but it is crap! lmao.

Frost Nova is really usefull because you can froze all (except bosses and undead monsters) and Jack Frost doesn't. Even if you have damage negated you can freeze monsters (water monsters or even holy xD).

Look at the Snowier and the Ice Titan frozen (both ignore water element attacks)


Survivor Manteau gives +10 vit if you have equiped Survival Rods. That wands are pretty useless because of their matk.

I think is better get some skills before radius like Crimson Rock or even Soul Expansion. Radius decrease 20% fixed cast of warlock skills, not magician, wizard or hw. Warlock skills have low fixed cast so you can reduce your cast less than .5 sec.

Chain lightning is better than LoV and JT. I don't know what game are you playing...

Edited by Fibrizzo, 02 December 2010 - 04:04 PM.

[Hiban]

Frost Nova is really usefull because you can froze all (except bosses and undead monsters) and Jack Frost doesn't. Even if you have damage negated you can freeze monsters (water monsters or even holy xD).

Look at the Snowier and the Ice Titan frozen (both ignore water element attacks)


Survivor Manteau gives +10 vit if you have equiped Survival Rods. That wands are pretty useless because of their matk.

I think is better get some skills before radius like Crimson Rock or even Soul Expansion. Radius decrease 20% fixed cast of warlock skills, not magician, wizard or hw. Warlock skills have low fixed cast so you can reduce your cast less than .5 sec.

Chain lightning is better than LoV and JT. I don't know what game are you playing...

First of all..What game are YOU playing? And do you READ before posting? Survivor Manteu DOES in fact give +10vit regardless of having the rod or not. Please test things out before posting false information due to your lack of understanding. I did know that Frost Nova is able to freeze water property monsters, but please, use logic; You got frost nova to be able to freeze these water property monsters to use chain lighting to take your time by killing them (since chain lighting bounces off to different randomized individual enemies and its overall damage is hard to deliver to a single target due to the fact that it bounces off every time) You are wasting your time just because you are too focused on the "fact" that this is a very good combo while you could be gaining double if not better the experience as a warlock using other neat skills that deliver the overall damage as soon as the spell is cast AND spread. Rather than spamming two skills that in the long run waste your time. But SURE if you like feeling cool by using this combo and like feeling "accomplished" and enjoy that, by all means get this skill combo that will drain your skill points as a penalty. To add to this, if you really plan on leveling on holy monsters (Stupidest idea of a warlock) you might as well get Hell Inferno which will outshine this stupid frost nova/chain lighting combo in damage since it has a good portion of shadow property damage (1200%).

- Radius does in fact only effect warlock skills and is highly recommended if you plan on getting comet and tetra and not reading spell book (what warlock on their right mind not get reading spell book without tetra or comet?) But do remember that it adds +3 cell range to warlock skills, so basically with radius maxed you can cast earth strain/chain lighting/crimson rock/soul expansion/white imprison/ETC on monster on the edge of your screen (it's really fun AND useful)

- I never said Chain lighting WAS NOT better than LOV or JT. I said Chain Lighting was like the new LOV. By that I was referring to the aspect of it being a skill that is really cool-looking but is not impressive in damage output. OBVIOUSLY ANY WARLOCK SKILL IS BETTER THAN A WIZARD ONE.I'm not sure what you think you read from my post but I recommend you read it again or maybe as many times it takes you to understand it.

[Fibrizzo]

Oh, you are right. I thought the +10 vit was included in the combo. I was wrong. Get +10 vit instead neutral reduction... *cough*

Frost Nova can "save your life" in less than a second. I use the combo Frost Nova + Crimson Rock. It was a must in kobolds where there are fire dogs that ignore CR, or even Juperos when you were too mobby you can save your live or even your arc bishop partner.

I never say I level up at Holy element monsters like I never say I use combo Frost Nova + Chain Lightning. If you are talking about the ss look at the date... I was seeing how work the skills because Renewal were implemented 2 days ago. But I'm stupid lol

if you really plan on leveling on holy monsters (Stupidest idea of a warlock)

I told about holy monsters like an example. But I guess you never use DB and killed random monsters -.-"

[Hiban]

Oh, you are right. I thought the +10 vit was included in the combo. I was wrong. Get +10 vit instead neutral reduction... *cough*

Frost Nova can "save your life" in less than a second. I use the combo Frost Nova + Crimson Rock. It was a must in kobolds where there are fire dogs that ignore CR, or even Juperos when you were too mobby you can save your live or even your arc bishop partner.

I never say I level up at Holy element monsters like I never say I use combo Frost Nova + Chain Lightning. If you are talking about the ss look at the date... I was seeing how work the skills because Renewal were implemented 2 days ago. But I'm stupid lol

I told about holy monsters like an example. But I guess you never use DB and killed random monsters -.-"

Oh man. There is so much I can say about your short response xD I'm tempted to dedicate another few paragraphs for you, but I'm pretty sure you'd still be having trouble understanding. I feel lazy so I'll tell you this: read and think about what you post before you do post it. lol.

[Fibrizzo]

Oh man. There is so much I can say about your short response xD I'm tempted to dedicate another few paragraphs for you, but I'm pretty sure you'd still be having trouble understanding. I feel lazy so I'll tell you this: read and think about what you post before you do post it. lol.

I understood everything. My problem is that I don't know enough English for answer you properly. If you want we can chat in Spanish in PM I wonder if your next answer will be an ataque ad hominem...

But as you say I'm stupid and I know nothing about wizards (that one is from my own but probably you feel I read your mind).

Edited by Fibrizzo, 03 December 2010 - 05:48 PM.

[reden]

Hiban i think you need to test things before you post. i also thought that jack frost>frost nova in every way but i was very wrong. as mentioned you can freeze water monsters/holy monsters/ ppl in hiding. it turns them to water 1 which is only 10% less dmg from fire. like you said crimson is just better and 10% is nothing most of the time.

also chain is a very powerful skill. many ppl in pvp will tell you it hurts . its also very fun because it continues to be able to hit ppl even when u think it shouldnt. such as when you die it will still bounce (ive killed many ppl after i died cause they werent expecting it). it also stays on a person for a fairly long time even after they die (a lot of ppl get hit by chain supposedly randomly ). from a pvm perspective its still effective at handling around 5 water mobs depending on how high you hit.

also i suggest you actually use hell inferno not that you would ever get lvl 5. 1200% hell inferno vs 2800% crimson rock with a 10% dmg reduction from water 1. even one hit of chain is 1700% and if you have 2 holy mobs chain will bounce enough times so you can frost nova as its still bouncing just increasing dmg further.

radius and recognized spell are both great skills but remember that you cant keep recognized up 100% unless you have lvl 5. also please dont make a stat build based off of gear.

[Hiban]

Hiban i think you need to test things before you post. i also thought that jack frost>frost nova in every way but i was very wrong. as mentioned you can freeze water monsters/holy monsters/ ppl in hiding. it turns them to water 1 which is only 10% less dmg from fire. like you said crimson is just better and 10% is nothing most of the time.

also chain is a very powerful skill. many ppl in pvp will tell you it hurts . its also very fun because it continues to be able to hit ppl even when u think it shouldnt. such as when you die it will still bounce (ive killed many ppl after i died cause they werent expecting it). it also stays on a person for a fairly long time even after they die (a lot of ppl get hit by chain supposedly randomly ). from a pvm perspective its still effective at handling around 5 water mobs depending on how high you hit.

also i suggest you actually use hell inferno not that you would ever get lvl 5. 1200% hell inferno vs 2800% crimson rock with a 10% dmg reduction from water 1. even one hit of chain is 1700% and if you have 2 holy mobs chain will bounce enough times so you can frost nova as its still bouncing just increasing dmg further.

radius and recognized spell are both great skills but remember that you cant keep recognized up 100% unless you have lvl 5. also please dont make a stat build based off of gear.

Um. I'm not stupid, and I'm not living in my philosophies or what I think a skill does. I have actually tried the maxed level of all the warlocks skills on my level 143 warlock (thanks to the reset guy in Prontera and one neutralizer). I also didn't only spend time messing around with the warlock skills but the Wizard/High Wizard skills that have been rejected by before renewal as well (i.e. Frost Nova, Fire Pillar, and etc.). I've tried many possible combination of skills. I don't know what you are referring to when you say "i think you need to test things before you post" because you didn't back up your statement to begin with. I'd like to see you back that up rather than just typing nonsense. Please pay attention and remember that we are discussing for a woe build hence the topic "WARLOCK discussing woe build." So it really doesn't matter what Chain lighting does in pvp OR pvm because WoE is a totally different language."ive killed many ppl after i died cause they werent expecting it" GEE I wonder what killed you in the first place...maybe you casting that skill that takes its time to deliver the full potential damage? You should have cast Crimson Rock, maybe that way you wouldn't be on the ground watching the person die AFTER you did rather kill them quickly in one blow. Don't lie to yourself, this skill is not very efficient in pvp/pvm/woe compared to the other skills of its level that can deal more damage in an instant rather than having to wait for all the hits deliver.

As I mentioned before I DID actually use Hell inferno level 5. it would be really stupid if I had suggested something of which I have no personal experience with (but remember this suggestion was based on the mentality of the idea that was presented, so I am not encouraging for anyone to get this skills level 5). In other words you obviously HAVE NOT. Did you consider the differences of cool down AND the % chance of frost nova's freezing? while you made this suggestion? "hell inferno vs 2800% crimson rock with a 10% dmg reduction from water 1. even one hit of chain is 1700% and if you have 2 holy mobs chain will bounce enough times so you can frost nova as its still bouncing just increasing dmg further." Lol. Of course not. Have fun dying with Chain lighting's position lagging in Woe/pvp/pvm ~~~~ oh I forgot...ITS SO GOOD JUST BECAUSE I SAW IT USED ON A YOUTUBE VIDEO. I MUST GET IT! (sarcasm). Hmm maybe you should read the posts a bit closer before posting a response? k thnx.

[Fibrizzo]

Frost Nova have a high chanze of Freezing. I think is around 84%. Its cast time and delay are really short. It's possible spam FN a few times in 2 seconds.

[reden]

......my entire post is backing up my statement that you should have tested more. just because you tested doesnt mean that you tested everything. ive already said uses for frost nova and i think freezing ppl in hide is pretty good. if you sight and then try to cast a skill they will most likely move away and hide again. so freezing them and then sighting isnt a useless combo but ill have to admit that frost nova isnt amazing for woe.

also that statement about crimson and chain in pvp is completely wrong. at the beginning i always used crimson but most of the time they just live it or hide it. chain kills more ppl and most ppl dont hide it properly. that is my experience and it may be different for you but you cant just say its wrong.

also frost novas freezing chance isnt that bad and you can spam it very fast as already stated. btw position bugging yourself is good in pvp/woe.

and seriously that last paragraph just sounds like you're mad. i just posted because everything you post is subjective and i dont want ppl not getting a skill because someone didnt find it useful. they should at least see all the possible uses a skill has from a different perspective and decide if the skills would be suited to their playstyle.

[Hiban]

......my entire post is backing up my statement that you should have tested more. just because you tested doesnt mean that you tested everything. ive already said uses for frost nova and i think freezing ppl in hide is pretty good. if you sight and then try to cast a skill they will most likely move away and hide again. so freezing them and then sighting isnt a useless combo but ill have to admit that frost nova isnt amazing for woe.

also that statement about crimson and chain in pvp is completely wrong. at the beginning i always used crimson but most of the time they just live it or hide it. chain kills more ppl and most ppl dont hide it properly. that is my experience and it may be different for you but you cant just say its wrong.

also frost novas freezing chance isnt that bad and you can spam it very fast as already stated. btw position bugging yourself is good in pvp/woe.

and seriously that last paragraph just sounds like you're mad. i just posted because everything you post is subjective and i dont want ppl not getting a skill because someone didnt find it useful. they should at least see all the possible uses a skill has from a different perspective and decide if the skills would be suited to their playstyle.

...Are you sure about that? Wait a minute...

"ive already said uses for frost nova and i think freezing ppl in hide is pretty good. if you sight and then try to cast a skill they will most likely move away and hide again. so freezing them and then sighting isnt a useless combo but ill have to admit that frost nova isnt amazing for woe."

Wth? you are contradicting yourself by saying it is good for freezing hidden people yet you admit frost nova isn't amazing for woe?...And again..did you consider the 7x7 range of Sight and the 5x5 range of frost nova? not to mention you have to continuously be casting frost nova and thus wasting your time since all good pvp/woe players carry an unfrozen 95%(my own personal estimate from experience in pvp and woe before and after renewal).

The fact that frost nova has a freezing chance is already a problem for use in mobs or worst...in WoE, unless of course its a poring mob. Am I crazy or did you just say position bugging is good? You do understand that it is very crucial to have a certainty of where you are positioned? (since we are talking about warlocks here). Position lag is bad for every class, ESPECIALLY mage types since you have to know where you are positioned to have success in dropping a safety wall down or an idea of where you are before casting a spell according to its speed. You must not play enough woe/pvp to have made such statement....

I'm not mad in either paragraph. Irritated, yes, because I do not know how to make you guys understand that frost nova and Chain Lighting is not good WoE tactic, neither is it a pvm one concidering the wide variety of skills you can use adjacent to this one but BETTER in the long run.

And omg... are you serious? just listen to yourself: "everything you post is subjective and i dont want ppl not getting a skill because someone didnt find it useful" Oh you sure are being very Objective aren't you? flip the statement around(proportional)and you end up contradicting yourself yet again. There is no way you are being objective in any manner...

[reden]

im saying frost nova has a use but its use is usually less than others for woe. let me set up an example: you cast crimson on someone and they hide it(cause they almost always do) so you could run up to them and frost nova. they will most likely stay hidden because you are using frost nova and will probably want to wait for you to stop. you freeze them in hide and use sight. if you sight first there is a better chance they will get away. also ive seen many ppl without unfrozens in woe/pvp. im saying its situational but not useless.

frost nova's freezing chance isnt that bad and with its fast cast time you can usually freeze mobs in the same time as it would take to cast jack frost. the pro of this is that frost nova will freeze some mobs faster than jack frost so you get hit less and it has almost no after cast delay unlike jack frost.

position bugging can be very annoying to a gx/short range melee in woe or even a ranger trying to use traps to kill you. position bugging isnt always bad but if you dont want to use it then dont.

dont want chain or frost nova? dont get it. but dont say its not good to get because there are uses for it.

also i said subjective not objective but i still dont see how im not being objective. im just stating some facts/experiences ive had with chain and frost nova. its fine to say its not great for a woe build but whats the harm in saying some uses it might have in woe? in woe most guilds are grouped up (or should be)so spamming a few chains in strings might get them to break up. i mean how fun would it be to have 2-3 chains going in a mob of ppl and it could actually be useful for dividing them up. im not saying use only chain in woe. every skill has a use and its up to the player to decide if the use of one skill is better than another. so if you dont have the skill points then fine dont get chain. some ppl might find chain more useful than another skill they would have gotten without seeing the uses of chain because you just said it was bad. their playstyle is different and they might like chain more so you should state pros and cons, then let them make their own decision. granted most ppl make terrible decisions even for their own playstyle.

Edited by reden, 10 December 2010 - 11:08 AM.

[Hiban]

To begin with, I do not know why you guys are fighting me over this when I stated in my first post that it was a biased opinion "I will add this though and you are not to listen if you want (my biased opinion): Chain lightning is crap. Its overall damage takes way too long to deliver and guess what...it spreads individually from monster to monster randomly! to make it even more stupid in mobs. It sure looks cool though! LOL chain lighting is like the new LOV. Everyone gets it just because it looks FREAKIN COOL but it is crap! lmao." I did not state the pros or cons because I simply (since that opinion was very much biased) think that the cons overcome the pros greatly. But after all thanks to our discussion the pros and cons should be very obvious. I think developers could have done much more on wind element skills for warlock (not to mention the fact that it is only one wind element skill warlocks have rather than all the other elements which got two, a debuff type and a damage type).

[reden]

well when you said fost nova was bad compared to jack frost you didnt say it was just your opinion. i was actually more concerned with frost nova over chain. mainly because i also thought the exact same thing at first but jack frost isnt exactly a better version of frost nova. it has its advantages over frost nova such as range and % freeze but it isnt a just plain better version. i can see dropping chain for more skill points but i must say its a lot of fun in pvp and it kills ppl when crimson doesnt. but really theres no reason to contine arguing. it will just be the same arugments with a few new smaller ones.

[Miyahira]

all of you guys that say it's stupid in comparison to jack frost, I think YOUR HORRIBLY getting the wrong idea. jack frost is good for DPS/dmg dealing. frost nova would be for CC (crowd control) since freezing stuff is an amazing crowd control aspect via pvm. if I was looking into sheer dmg dealing I wouldn't even think of frost nova DUH. what I have been doing is lvling with my ranger friend (zOMG non trapper!!) he mobs > I jack frost freezing mob > I cast SG > ranger picks off who it wants to kill > stuff unfreezes > SG goes off refreezing the mob. the problem is that if I redo jack frost it will break open the mob, then we're boned due to mob destroying us. I was tampering the idea of frost nova because I can spam a freezing spell with out the mob being broken free. (aka jack frost) I'm completely unimpressed with SG now a days as a CC skill and I think that a better alt (for warlocks) skill is frost nova.