6 replies to this topic

[Precrush]

Person A is fishing. He needs Bright Jewels, he could make slippery oil

Person B is gathering veggies. He needs Slippery oil, he could make mysterious powder (by gathering herbs for a while instead)

Person C is mining gems. He needs mysterious powder, he could make bright jewels.

Now A is supposed to get Bright Jewels from C, B is supposed to get his oil from A and C his powder from B.

 

Does this happen ever? No it doesn't, because people can't reliably get basic ingredients (Bright Jewel, Mysterious Powder, Slippery Oil, Wooden Panel and Machine Part) from others. They end up making alts to gather on instead to have those items when ever they need them.

 

Now what I think is at the root of this is the fact that making these ingredients costs fatigue to make, fatigue you could be using to gather those grade 4-6 ingredients or making socket boxes with. So the cost of making these Basic Ingredients is really quite big. Most people end up selling grade 2-3 ingredients to a npc instead of making them into them because they don't want to be wasting fatigue.

 

So changing the cost of producing these five items to zero would encourage everyone to make them, lower their value and make production easily doable on just one char. That in turn makes it a more approachable and simple system. And there's a built in min price already, so they can't ever crash to nothing! (The gathered ingredients sell for quite a lot at the npc, for example min price for lvl 8 mysterious powder would be ~50s) Not that I think it would go that low.

 

Now you could also reduce the amount of fatigue it takes to build these items to some lower number, but I don't see a reason to do that. Completely removing the cost will make a clear signal to everyone that there is no drawback to making these and that they should always make them and pop them in their market. Only other thing to consider is that this change would cause people to have more fatigue to use. I don't think this would be too big of a problem, but it could always be lowered by say 1/5th or 1/4th if this was done to balance that. But again, I don't personally think that's needed at all, more fatigue to use on 1 char again makes the need for multiple farming chars smaller.

 

PS. Could we change the fatigue counter to count up towards your max, not down. Considering what the word means reaching max fatigue and not being able to do anything makes sense, where as reaching 0 and not being able to do anything does not.

Edited by Precrush, 29 February 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[5143121023173906760]

The fatigue system is here to give you a limit on farming gathering/producting too much, and your suggestion is the proof that it is fine as it is.

The game isn't only about professions, and the limit is here to remind you about that, if you want to being able to bypass that limit, you have 2 options :

-Use a fatigue potion
-Use an another character (but that means leveling from the beginning which is tedious.)

I've never been bothered by the limit since when I farm dungeons or gold or can't log-in for a certain time, I make sure to use all my fatigue points by producing stuff.

[Precrush]

You are missing the point, the point is to guide players and the economy behind these items to the right direction. If you halved the available fatigue and made this change it would still be better than it is now. 

 

Using fatigue potions to make Basic Ingredients is just as much not worth it as using the normal fatigue, and people using multiple chars what this would try to stop.

 

If people got the panels or powders they needed cheap off the market instead of using an alt to farm them, how do you think that would make people spend more time in PoW farm?

[ManItsMike]

I've maxed all of my main's production skills, and I've learned to work with the fatigue system, since I do all of the on one character. I don't see anything wrong with it, personally. I thought it was designed to be time-consuming, to prevent masses of great items coming into the game.

[Precrush]

I'm not concerned about the time consuming part, I'm concerned about the Basic Ingredients being in a way "shadow expensive" by costing so much fatigue. This is the sole reason that people don't do much cooperation with production like they are supposed to. You use to be able to effectively lvl 2 skills to max, after which leveling the other ones got incredibly slow (like 10% normal exp at lowest). The goal here is to make it easier meaning more convenient, not "making it take less time" easier.

 

Every time a player ask me about profession I have to explain to them that if you really want to do this, you need to get at least 2, preferably 4 characters to be able to make your own basic ingredients and have the fatigue to make them. Telling a guy who just got his first char to lvl 60 that if he wants to do this, he'll need to get another lvl 50 char, is not too encouraging, so people just don't bother with it.

 

Think about this. What is the point of having these Basic Ingredients if they are not traded between players. It's just a step to make it more complicated. You might as well just have socket boxes made with just the one gathered ingredient. All you need to do is balance it so that you get ready items at the same rate that you would by first gathering ingredients, then gathering the other ones, making Basic Ingredients, and then making the item. It's exactly the same, but without a useless step in between. So in order for this useless step to have purpose, the costs of making Basic Ingredients has to be lower. Quite hard a concept to explain, hope it's understandable.

 

This system clearly wants to force you to do teamwork and not do everything yourself. But it's badly designed for that! Either doing this in some form, and enforcing more cooperation, or enforcing the solo side by giving more fatigue for having more skills (no caps), would eliminate the need for alts.

[Zackx23]

Correct me if I'm completely wrong but you're just talking about the costs of basics like slippery oil and stuff, right?

 

If so then I'd support a decrease of the costs for creating those, not to 0 but how about half the cost of creating the other stuff (boxes/hammer) So it's still depending on the lvl of the item you want to create but then you can create twice for the costs of one try right now.

 

 

/Edit: lowering the costs to 0 could also lead to an abuse where some people would speed lvl up their Prod. Skill to 500 unless it does not give any EXP anymore.

Edited by Zackx23, 02 March 2016 - 01:44 AM.

[Precrush]

Correct me if I'm completely wrong but you're just talking about the costs of basics like slippery oil and stuff, right?

 

If so then I'd support a decrease of the costs for creating those, not to 0 but how about half the cost of creating the other stuff (boxes/hammer) So it's still depending on the lvl of the item you want to create but then you can create twice for the costs of one try right now.

Ye, the game calls them "Basic Ingredients" so I just went went with that.

 

I thought about that, but the thing is that is very hard to say how much less it should be to reach the point where making them is always worth it, I don't think half would do it. Just reducing it to 0 and cutting fatigue down by say half would do that though, and basically be the same thing. This is assuming approximately half of ones fatigue goes to making these things now which I think its about right (making Basic Ingredients with grade 2 and 3 items)

 

One thing with this too is that because making Basic Ingredients with grade 6 items gives so many of them, that would factor into the price as well, should the cost be 0. I don't see this being a problem, supply and demand will do it's thing and the price will settle accordingly.