42 replies to this topic

[Vossel]

In this topic i would like to collect all wrong scaling skills of all classes to help fixing them. I will update it daily.

For this i need the help of others, i would recommend you to use a Protector of Stars weapon without element damage, any active buff skills and without a belt/ring etc that gives you physAttack/magicAttack.

Before you write anything check this start post what is still needed that you only post something again if you noticed a big difference.

If you can, test all skills you have skilled with your class against the monster at Nail Hill and note down the highest damage it does and write after that what the maximum damage should be if you would calculate it with your Physic/Magic attack shown in the character information "U".(example:Sword Dance  5/5 (100% dmg): ~30k -> ~50k)

 

Warrior:

Blow 1/5(15%+100):~26k->~7300;

Cutdown 1/5(18%+90):~27k->~8700;

Storm Blade 1/5(8%+50):~25.5k->~3900;

Air Combo Launch 1/5(16%+50):~26k->~7700;

Re-launch 1/5(20%+110):~25.5k->9700;

Sword Dance 2/5(43%+90):~27k->~20700;

Hammer Crush 1/5(30%+200):~27k->14600;

Icecold Heart 1/5(50%+300):~29k->24300;

 

Gladiator:

Dashing Blow 1/1(100%+150):~27.6k->~48150;

I'm Gone Bear! 4/5(72.5%+76):~7.2k x 8Hits->~34800 If it count for each hit; ~4350 if it count for the skill and not for each hit;

Aerial Blow 1/1(95%+130);~28k->45.7k;

Incoming Bear! 1/5(41.7%+166):~10.5k x 3Hits->~20200  If it count for each hit; ~6800  if it count for the skill and not for each hit;

Wrath of Earth 1/5(200%+1000):~35.3k->97k;

 

Myrmidon:

Gust Slash 5/5(260%+620):~40k x 3Hits->~125k  If it count for each hit; ~42k if it count for the skill and not for each hit;

Magnum Break 1/5(200%+300):~33k->~96300;

Death Bound 3/5(270%+600):~40k->130k;

Wyvern Blade 5/5(130%+1100):~32k x 6Hits->63500  If it count for each hit; ~10500 if it count for the skill and not for each hit;

Whirlwind 1/5(75%+500):~25k x 5 Hits->~36500 If it count for each hit; ~7300 if it count for the skill and not for each hit;

 

 

Overlord:

 

Knight:

Paladin:

Dragooner:

 

 

Thief:

 

 

Ninja:

 

 

Savage:

 

 

Magician:

 

 

Invoker:

Donner Monk>invoker for skill calculation

Class info = POS weapon +20 Weapon

Weapon Physical power / min: 5589    Max 13284

Weapon Magic power / min: 7170   Max: 19302

Hero power Physical: 13673 / Magical powers 22158

 

 Rain of Fire lv 5 = Weapon magic attack power 250% +350

Number of possible hit, not shoing for lv 5 but say 6 combo for the lv 6 so let say hit 5

Should do Min: 18275 – 48605

Damage shown 19700-33200

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lighting strike lv 1 : Weapon magica attack power 75%+100

Should do 5477,5 – 14576,5

Damage shown: 18189 – 30015

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diffusion canon: lv 5 : 78% + 50 of magical power

Should do ‘’I don’t know cause the skill description say only magical power so I don’t know the minimum and max I only got 1 number of average : 17333,24 (I will let popcorn check this one cause he got the real calculation formula)

Damage show 11357-20142

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chain lightning: lv 5 70% magical power

Should do: I got the same text like the diffusion canon magical power so I got only a average number 15510

Damage show: 10085-18533

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spark rock  LV 5 : weapon magical attack power 67%+400

Number of possible hit  don’t know not showing

Should do 5238,75 – 13428,85

Damage show : 15205-22870

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wraith of heaventh lv 3 Weapon magical attack power 1000%

Number of possible hit 2

Should do : 71700 – 193020

Damage show : 39995 – 50392

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lighting storm lv 1 337.5% weapon magical attack power

Number of possible hit 20

Should do 24198,75-65144,25

Damage show : 8707-9781

 

 

Sorcerer:

 

 

Archer:

 

 

Destroyer:

 

 

Sentinel:

 

 

Earth Master:

 

 

Jumeaux:

 

 

Thanks to Rainnowx for giving this advice

It should be mentionned to enable "Damage" in the System Information window option; that should relieve players' brain when seeing the damage they have to keep in mind, before writing it anywhere. It also notifies when the damage is critical.

 

 

 

Edited by Vossel, 25 April 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[Popcorn]

Before everyone now collects the "wrong scaling skills", please note that it is always a value between the min. and the max. value of the enchanted weapon.

The "100%" the skill might say does not mean that you always get the maximum.

 

Example:

The weapon has a damage between 3500 and 8000, skill states it does damage with 100% of the weapons attack, so the damage it causes is between 3500 and 8000.

If you have a skill stating it does 260% of the weapons damage, the damage is between 9100 and 20800. 

 

Please keep that in mind.

 

[Agitodesu]

Do monsters have 0 defense in general, or in relation to level. I recall doing only 1 damage with my ninja to a dragon with a dark soul weapon.

[Vossel]

that is why i want the people to note down the highest damage they can achieve with it

[zirothos]

i help ^^ this should be interesting.

 

i will do all the monk>invoker skill that can do damage and some shaman>earth master skill i don't have many for this class. i got a excel page that will do all the basic calculation for me so i will only need to put the damage show in it.

 

By the end of Sunday or later Monday i will post my result

Edited by zirothos, 21 April 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[VModChimichanga]

I haven't tested them yet, but I think Wraith of Heaven, Cross cut, and Rolling Stone use base damage. I'll edit my post after I take a look later.

[Vossel]

Added the map where to test the skills that we test it all on the same monsters

[Rainnowx]

It should be mentionned to enable "Damage" in the System Information window option; that should relieve players' brain when seeing the damage they have to keep in mind, before writing it anywhere. It also notifies when the damage is critical.

 

<EDIT2: Image being huge and mentionned in initial post, I'll make it hidden.>

Spoiler

Edited by Rainnowx, 27 April 2016 - 01:22 AM.

[Popcorn]

@Vossel: I need more infos. To check if something is wrong I need the following informations: Skill Name and Level, Weapon's Min and Max Total MATK/ATK (enchanted, not the lower equip option values) and if possible the char's ATK and MATK values from the stats overview. Thanks.

 

[zirothos]

i got one question for you popcorn when a skill say weapon xx% + xx nomber how the '+xx nomber work'

now for what you are saying about the resulte you need the magic and phisical power stat too? kk i will add that to my excel thing. but the only thing i cant add in it is the +xx nomber cause i dont know how it work so i will do only the % one . i will put my excel page data directly in there it will be easier to see the resulte

[Popcorn]

i got one question for you popcorn when a skill say weapon xx% + xx nomber how the '+xx nomber work'

 

It should work like that, let's say you have a skill which says (it's hypothetical):

 

Skill attacks with 260.0% of the weapon's magical attack power + 500 it should be calculated that way:

 

Let's assume the Weapon has a total min magical ATK of 6000 and a total max magical ATK of 9500, the game generates a random damage amount between these two values, let's say it generated a damage of 7883 for example.

After that the formula calculates 260% from it which is about 20495 damage and then adds the absolute value of 500 (the +xx number), which is then an actual damage of 20995.

 

And that's how it shall be intended.

The chance of reaching the max damage is very low due to the RNG.

 

 

Edit: 

There's something else I should mention.

Some skills say "Weapon's magical/physical attack power" and others say only "magical/physical attack power". There is a difference in the calculation.

 

If the skill says "Weapon's ..." only the total magical/physical attack values of the weapon are taken. Not the values from the stats sheet of your character. For these skills values from accessories for example are not taken into account.

 

[Agitodesu]

I've been doing it at windia mission map as I assume the monsters have nearly 0 defense. The numbers like popcorn said is slightly accurate for a level 25 weapon with no soul craft/enchant and the range is smaller, however if you use the pos alone the range is different and not accurate.

[Popcorn]

 the range is different and not accurate.

 

Did you use the PoS also in Windia Planes? 

[Agitodesu]

Yes

[Popcorn]

Yes

 

I need to check if that happens because the monsters are so low level. 

Can you give me an example of the damage you cause with the level 20 weapon and how much damage you deal with the PoS and on what monster and it's level? I need to check something what came into my mind, but I don't want to tell you wrong informations.

 

 

 

If you can, test all skills you have skilled with your class against the monster at Nail Hill and note down the highest damage it does and write after that what the maximum damage should be if you would calculate it with your Physic/Magic attack shown in the character information "U".(example:Sword Dance  5/5 (100% dmg): ~30k -> ~50k)

 

As I said, some skills only use the Weapon's total damage values instead of the values written down in the character stat overview. So it would be good to also have the weapon's total min and max values. These skills do not take any other atk values than the weapon's atk values into account. For this skills your calculation won't work. For sure it might be that some skills have wrong descriptions, but I can only check this if I can compare values correctly.

 

Here are 2 examples:

 

    

 

The skill rain of fire definitely states "Weapon Magic Attack Power" and this means it will only use the weapon's total min/max values for damage calculations. 

The diffusion cannon states "magic attack" which means the values from the stat sheet ATK are used as a possible maximum damage. Also here there is a minimum value which is not shown anywhere (at least I don't know that the min value is shown anywhere).

 

Both skills calculate their damages from a random value between their min and max amounts.

 

I hope this was understandable.

[Agitodesu]

Alright, I already have some insight on how the entire thing works, but I'm also not confident yet because of either of 3 things.

 

Blow: 15% Patk + 100 weapons physical attack power

 

Windia plains MM POS

23208   

22355 

24061 

21740

18468

24497

22291

25366

19765

24203

 

Average 22595.4

 

 

Nail Hill POS

 

18841

14475

23891

19392

18585

16014

14425

20550

14111

15232

 

Average 17551.6

 

Windia MM Forest sword 25

 

1962

1996

2065

1851

1881

2055

2072

2062

2101

1876

 

Average 1992.1

 

POS

 

Min Patk 12,644

Max Patk 45,657

Total Stat Patk 47,462

 

Matk

Min 5,895

Max 15,988

Total 16,7462

 

Equip Option:

 

Min Patk 3,540

Max Patk 12,689

 

Min Matk 1,747

Max Matk 4,778

===========

Forest sword

Stat total

1136

391

 

Weapon total=weapon base

 

Patk 412-687

Matk 160-206

[zirothos]

kk thx i will add that to the excel then. i will check all stat info for each skill so my excel will do the right calculation. i will put what weapon with the enchanment . gonna be fun to check each skill and all info

[Popcorn]

Out of curiosity I had a look into the "default" Damage Calculation Formula (it seems it's different for some skills), but that calculation formula is over-complicated. I will try to untangle that formula and explain it then. Maybe this brings some light into several damage questions.

 

[zirothos]

for now i will only do the basic info show on the skill and write the damage show in the game xD i will let you do the complicate stuff xD and compare to what it writing on the top my excel will show more info then this xD i will post all the info for the monk > invoker part laster saturday or sunday  with a nice and clear  colore separation excel page xD i will do a screen shot and put the image

 

[Vossel]

The Left image shows my base ATK(it is green because i can't remove the passive Advanced sword mastery, should be 292 without it)

The right image shows my ATK and other stats with my equipment(haven't equiped anything that gives additional ATK)

If you need any more information just ask me.

By the way Popcorn i just had a look at this and saw that every Overlord skill calculate only with the weapon phys ATK, where is the sense in the items that give addition ATK then(solar rings as example)??

 

                 )

Edited by Vossel, 23 April 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[Popcorn]

I had a closer look over the formula and it's kinda not that easy as it sounds in the descriptions.

From what I see the rings for example HAVE a sense. I will try to untangle the whole formula and post some more detailed informations on Monday. The calculation is complex and I will post the default calculation steps on Monday.

 

[Agitodesu]

The thing is even if we know the equation what will change? Each skill is either working correctly or have a different equation according to the system. Will we boost the damage dealt to buff skills or leave it as is?

[Rainnowx]

 

By the way Popcorn i [...] saw that every Overlord skill calculate only with the weapon phys ATK

 

Seen in almost every Class in respective main power (Phys./Mag.).

 

<Observations unrelated to damage calculation>

Spoiler

Power type (Weapon/Character) and damage isn't indicated in:

 

_Specialist's Sniping; or is it that attack point shouldn't be understood as "range"

_Sorcerer's Reverse Gravity

_Sentinel's Multi Stripe

_Pathfinder's Untouchable; or is it that "devastated" should mean "OS", which I highly doubt

Edited by Rainnowx, 23 April 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Vossel]

The thing is even if we know the equation what will change? Each skill is either working correctly or have a different equation according to the system. Will we boost the damage dealt to buff skills or leave it as is?

I would recommend to buff it for PvE first to test how well the changes work and if there are any problems etc. before we could do any changes to the PvP damage

[zirothos]

Donner Monk>invoker for skill calculation

Class info = POS weapon +20 Weapon

Weapon Physical power / min: 5589    Max 13284

Weapon Magic power / min: 7170   Max: 19302

Hero power Physical: 13673 / Magical powers 22158

 

 Rain of Fire lv 5 = Weapon magic attack power 250% +350

Number of possible hit, not shoing for lv 5 but say 6 combo for the lv 6 so let say hit 5

Should do Min: 18275 – 48605

Damage shown 19700-33200

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lighting strike lv 1 : Weapon magica attack power 75%+100

Should do 5477,5 – 14576,5

Damage shown: 18189 – 30015

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diffusion canon: lv 5 : 78% + 50 of magical power

Should do ‘’I don’t know cause the skill description say only magical power so I don’t know the minimum and max I only got 1 number of average : 17333,24 (I will let popcorn check this one cause he got the real calculation formula)

Damage show 11357-20142

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chain lightning: lv 5 70% magical power

Should do: I got the same text like the diffusion canon magical power so I got only a average number 15510

Damage show: 10085-18533

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spark rock  LV 5 : weapon magical attack power 67%+400

Number of possible hit  don’t know not showing

Should do 5238,75 – 13428,85

Damage show : 15205-22870

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wraith of heaventh lv 3 Weapon magical attack power 1000%

Number of possible hit 2

Should do : 71700 – 193020

Damage show : 39995 – 50392

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the last one ‘’ultimate’’ lighting storm lv 1 337.5% weapon magical attack power

Number of possible hit 20

Should do 24198,75-65144,25

Damage show : 8707-9781

----------------------------------------------------------

double shot 1/1 "Edit'' + question

 weapon magic attack power 12%+40

if i do the calcul like popcorn show the skill suppose to do super weak damage but i think it a bug from the skill text. and i think the skill do base damage + the skill info

 

so if i do my ways of calculation the damage

 

should be 8070.4-21658.24

damage show : 14467-27800

( now the question if for the skill ''double shot '' what is the real formula even with the number show on the skill text all my formula don't come even close to the number show on the monster.

 

PS : many of the skill damage are way up on the monster data, i know the formula i use is wrong cause it only base on the text that is showing in the game and they is some hidden info for all skill that player don't have but with the data i gather i hope it will help to see if the skill is stronger or weaken then attended.

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Now question for Popcorn :  is some skill suppose to have a lower damage impute cause they hit multiple time or all the damage is base on 1 hit.

 

that all the info i gather for the monk > invoker class i hope it help. if you need more info let me know

 

 

 

 

Edited by zirothos, 25 April 2016 - 02:46 PM.