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Renewal WoE Revitalization Project


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#51 WolfTri

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:19 AM

It is the same people against the set as it has always been. It honestly has made almost no difference since the majority of people haven't have an opportunity to utilize the set.

Pretty much, we've had this debate already. No real point re-opening it. 


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#52 Civic

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:20 AM

I just wounder if GM can do something for Maestro and Wanderer. Musician need love at woe too. Right now we mostly just walk in fort and got kill right away *Sadface* 


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#53 Toxn

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:21 AM

Yeah, no point in talking about a crap implementation that is essentially 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Clearly.


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#54 WolfTri

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:23 AM

^

 

Masq skills should have Casting limes even .05 Casting time would be fine, so many Cheating Happening on Chasers

Casting time won't change much when it comes to cheating, it's the delay that matters. I'd say put both cast time and delay on it lol, given how stupidly strong shadow chasers are. 

Someone mentioned suras being a problem, I think the best way to address that to fix the fact that most of their damage is not affected by reductions.

If you want to make suras balanced, just make sure that all their damage is properly reduced by equipment as it's supposed to be. The current outliers are:

1) Gates of Hell's missing hp portion.

2) Tiger Cannon's splash damage. Reduction of splash targets is not taken into consideration, the damage the targeted opponent takes is spread onto everyone else in the splash AoE.

 

This damage is only reduced by a GR card, nothing else. Make it reducable, and the oppressive damage of a sura, both single-target and AoE, vanishes. They still have supreme mobility (Snap) and supreme disable (Cursed Circle). I'd say gfist is balanced in itself due to having to swap to specialized gear if you really want to drop someone with it, and 10sec cooldown period during which the Sura is fully vulnerable.


Edited by WolfTri, 06 May 2016 - 11:24 AM.

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#55 WarlockFier

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:24 AM

Is it too late for me to say that the unfrozen shadow set shouldn't exist in WoE? I feel like we haven't made that clear enough some how


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#56 Toxn

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:28 AM

A fixed cast time on Masq isn't that bad of an idea. It would reduce the amount of :"wtf just happened" moments when you end up with a masq on you before a chaser even lands on your cell from flying kick,

 

At the current moment, it would require switching to Temporal Dex to achieve instant masq, but would result in breaking the WoE set. Which is a fair trade off in my opinion.

Problem is, the balance would be basically undone if iRO ever implements the fixed cast reduction costume enchants kRO has.


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#57 WolfTri

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:28 AM

Yeah, no point in talking about a crap implementation that is essentially 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Clearly.

There were several points both for and against, and it was decided that they would go through with it, due to a lack of consensus. Implementation has clearly shown no major change in the WoE Scene, thus setting to rest the apprehensions that people may have had. All this does is derail the topic.


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#58 Myzery

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:28 AM

Yeah i remember that discussion, you with Sendo were against it because it will only benefit the people with zeny, funny thing is, you guys(and a lot of the other people against that specific shadow gear, like Kami, Toxn, Fier, to name some) were right...but hey the ones who try to proclame how this will benefit the people who are not rich can ignore that, is ok :P
 

 

I honestly don't care if the unfrozen shadow set is removed, but I don't believe that enough of the population has access to it to get any type of real data to oppose it.
You have no data to back up your statement, but the poorer people probably didn't risk upgrading their sets.


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#59 PervySageMarty

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:30 AM

Very nice idea overhaul Campitor but you havent addressed bishop healers in this discussion. Our healing department is very lacking considering our only bonuses can come from headgear cards, the bellum bible and a few accessories which in turn morbidly reduces our chances for survival outside of our protection skills, might you also add qualities towards Bishops who innately also must play as a healer at woe? I could be possibly flamed for this though because everyone else in these forums go on about how "healing is invalid" or "if you heal in woe, your playing the class wrong" or "if you invest in the heal skill for woe build, you may as well delete you character and burn in hell" or "Marty, can your AB please go crash into a tree and die please" or "white slims > healing. Heal is useless in pvm".

Edited by Marty5337, 06 May 2016 - 11:31 AM.

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#60 ChakriGuard

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:52 AM

Honestly RO has become anything but fun for me recently partly because of how terrible WoE has become, I'm really happy to FINALLY see some things being done to fix that because I was really starting to think RO was just going to come to an end with a Ymir 2.0. Though it's been long overdue, thank you for at least trying to fix some of the problems the server has been having.

 

You're just mad because you cant move in WoE. You dont even move /gg


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#61 Sewasan

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 11:57 AM

I honestly don't care if the unfrozen shadow set is removed, but I don't believe that enough of the population has access to it to get any type of real data to oppose it.
You have no data to back up your statement, but the poorer people probably didn't risk upgrading their sets.

 

ok, what makes you happy...im thinking, words are an amazing thing :)
 


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#62 Myzery

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 12:09 PM

ok, what makes you happy...im thinking, words are an amazing thing :)
 

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, but you made blanket statement about whoever being right when there's nothing to really sample from on either side.
All we have so far are a few people that love the unfrozen set that were opposed to it in the past, but probably for the "wrong" reasons.


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#63 Mayhem

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 12:17 PM

If I could choose one thing to fix, I would choose balancing of classes and skills.

 

A lot of it wont matter or make people want to woe if you are still just playing sura, or your any other class that is just getting one shotted/or useless to woe.


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#64 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 12:41 PM

I would say enable PK ranking for WoE (only)  It doesnt need any stat buff or anything like that just for bragging rights. and that's it.

Using potions should have a 0.5 sec cool down as well


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#65 Darksorrow1234

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 01:27 PM

whatever nerfs you guys are going to implement, pls do not hurt the pvm aspect.


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#66 sheepmia

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 01:55 PM

Blanching classes and skills is really a blank statement.
Maybe if we all play the same class, it would seem balanced to everyone.
I understand why shadow chaser gets so much hate because they are hard to kill and makes you vulnerable.
But at the same time people are complaining god items users being too strong, while shadow chaser is the only way to counter them, just look at these exceed break RGs with 200k hp.
And when did chaser chaser ever be able to kill anyone? Never. If you get masq and die that means your team work is -_- or yout teams are doing the wrong thing.
To me I can careless how people want to nerf shadow chaser, since I can play whatever feels more OP. But shadow chaser is the most nerfed class already,
(no arrows, deadly infection, shadow form, fire trap, rapid throw, chaos panic basically half of the skills got nerfed since renewal)
their only value lies in masq, and if you add want like 1s delay to sc it will kill the purpose of the class completely, (average 5 spams for masq to success takes 5s, pretty much useless and die trying to do anything) then you will go on accusing people soloing everything because they have god items etc.

In the end IRO and its community do not have the knowledge requires to alter the game mechanics towards a right direction which makes everyone happy, because it's not possible. I would say do something else like promoting woe returns and dramas for better result. Again nothing will be balanced, not even relatively.
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#67 havokkmorands

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 01:58 PM

Ragnarok died now.
 
This isn't a revitalization, it's a death to all.
 
I think this plan it's made without seeing the actual scenario of war of emperium.
 
What we need is fix of some class, like Sura, SC, RK and an update on GRF who will break the client edit (all clients edit, no exceptions).
 
And a smart system, who will break external and malicious programs.

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#68 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:08 PM

ban all 3rd party prgrams thats used for woe. remove maya p from woe.

 

Look at why woe te is soo succesful and make it work for woe 1 and woe 2


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#69 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:11 PM

Also stat debuff make it harder to obtain. since everyone is 175/50 make stat debuff be at 130 stat rate for 100%


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#70 Necrohealiac

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:14 PM

remove maya p from woe.


that doesn't really stop anyone. it's disabled in woe TE but people still have absurd 6th senses on where all the cloaked/hidden players are.
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#71 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:17 PM

that doesn't really stop anyone. it's disabled in woe TE but people still have absurd 6th senses on where all the cloaked/hidden players are.

 

Ban them automatically :)


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#72 ChakriGuard

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:22 PM

Blanching classes and skills is really a blank statement.
Maybe if we all play the same class, it would seem balanced to everyone.
I understand why shadow chaser gets so much hate because they are hard to kill and makes you vulnerable.
But at the same time people are complaining god items users being too strong, while shadow chaser is the only way to counter them, just look at these exceed break RGs with 200k hp.
And when did chaser chaser ever be able to kill anyone? Never. If you get masq and die that means your team work is -_- or yout teams are doing the wrong thing.
To me I can careless how people want to nerf shadow chaser, since I can play whatever feels more OP. But shadow chaser is the most nerfed class already,
(no arrows, deadly infection, shadow form, fire trap, rapid throw, chaos panic basically half of the skills got nerfed since renewal)
their only value lies in masq, and if you add want like 1s delay to sc it will kill the purpose of the class completely, (average 5 spams for masq to success takes 5s, pretty much useless and die trying to do anything) then you will go on accusing people soloing everything because they have god items etc.

In the end IRO and its community do not have the knowledge requires to alter the game mechanics towards a right direction which makes everyone happy, because it's not possible. I would say do something else like promoting woe returns and dramas for better result. Again nothing will be balanced, not even relatively.

 

240k HP *cough* I am sorry. I should've never come up with CRIT EB in iRO :P

 

Well RG is not that OP. Ther are many ways to counter CRIT EB RG. I know this because I'm the one that came up with this build so I know all the weaknesses. It's actually hilarious that it took people months to actually figure it out how to ez counter and we're talking about skills in iRO xD

I say, dont balance the classes. People are not dumb. They can play w/e class they think is OP. I've seen many CRIT EB RGs out there when I post my build and then ... the only real CRIT EB RG that is very good is Alligator. Most of them? Quit because the build is probably not as OP as they thought to be and then all went back to Sura or SC or RK haha


Edited by ChakriGuard, 06 May 2016 - 02:24 PM.

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#73 Dreimdal

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 02:52 PM

Suggest:

Sura should not have mobility (snap) survivability(hgh hp, gentle cure), mass disability(curse circle) mass damaging ability(tiger cannon) amd single target ability(goh gfist) in one package.
Reduce Curse circle duration by half and reduce damage of tiger Cannon by half.

Adding a long cool down to masquerade is stupid, it takes 10+ attempts to successfully masq some people, you guess how long. Better disable masquerade completely so it's all about more sura. This further discourage team work because you will never die with high hp and high end gears, if not masq.

but every step you take you bring in new problems anyway

 

 

Posts like this are ridiculous. It makes it clear everyone who's posting is just looking our for their own interests. Whether it be their own class, or their own guild, or their own alliance.

In any case, no kind of changes should be pushed through or set in stone until the entire WoE community has had a chance to weigh in on each individual change or alteration.

Also, to rebut the above post. Shadow chasers are even tankier than suras, for one. Secondly, they have a minimum success rate with masquerade skills, so trying enough will eventually succeed in masquerading.

I'm not trying to defend suras. I too think their attack skills are too strong, but I believe that's because portions of those skills are not affected by demi-human reductions. That is the part that needs to be solved.


My own opinion is that, I like the idea of introducing an irreducible cooldown on everything (using a skill, a potion, etc), but only if it's no higher than 100 milliseconds.

To be clear, I'm suggesting that multiple actions can be done at the same time, for instance, using a restorative item AND using a skill within less than 100 ms of each other, or using two DIFFERENT skills within less than 100ms of each other. But repeating the same action would be impossible for less than 100 ms. Essentially, a cooldown on individual actions to prevent high-speed rapid fire repetition of exact same packet sent by a client to server.

Additionally, all damage skills except those that do fixed damage (i.e. Gloria Domini, Gravity Field, etc) should be affected by demi-human reductions.

Just the two changes "100ms cooldown on everything" and "all damage skills affected by gear reductions" would go a long ways towards making WoE more balanced, in my opinion.


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#74 VModCinnamon

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 03:08 PM

Yooooooooooooooooooooo.

A remainder for now and onward, please make sure you are still within topic. Thank you.


Edited by VModCinnamon, 06 May 2016 - 03:20 PM.
Derp

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#75 Myzery

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 03:13 PM

Yooooooooooooooooooooo.

A remainder for now and onward, please make sure you are still within topic. Thank you.

 

What is the remainder though?


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