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Renewal WoE Revitalization Project


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#126 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 04:56 AM

Whats the difference on killing someone and forcing him to bwing outside other than keeping/losing buffs?
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#127 louisn1234

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:15 AM

Thank You Campitator for at least start to solves these problem.


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#128 miliardo

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:15 AM

RGs need 130b+ worth of gear ( unless you rent, wich is about 1.6b per month) to make what you described work. SC doesn't comes even close. Its a reward for the super high investment, while chasers are a low/medium investment with guaranteed high reward.

Also, many on this thread who are SC players have asked to "nerf"(cof cof balance) the class, so who's acting on own interest here?

So just because a class cost more to gear makes it's not op? one can argue that the main problem now is because of all the high end gear available. A lot of classes and skills were not bad before specialist builds to make them shine. The problem is in all these new updates adding more stats/more dmg applying gears without any def against them. Woe set was the last and best gear has come out for woe. Then after some time people were able to make those useless with tt bow arrow storm. Iro is full of people trying to get an advantage this will never change. No matter the changes you make give a few weeks and new ways will come out to make something else op.

I'll put some ideas out there of what like and what I feel would be a good fix.

After cast delay for shadow chasers help prevent abuse don't got be much can start small and adjust later if needs to be.

Db still being abused relook into adjustment for that

Stasis over wall abuse. Stasis is apart of the game and should not be changed anything else. If we need to look into later we can. Just don't want to get to ahead of ourselves and make skill useless.

Howl over wall. This is sort of in line with stasis.

I think we need to look into balancing not making classes or builds unusable. <>

Edit:fixed auto corrects spell check


Edited by VModCinnamon, 07 May 2016 - 09:29 AM.
Removed, no guilds drama please.

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#129 Myzery

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:17 AM

Whats the difference on killing someone and forcing him to bwing outside other than keeping/losing buffs?

 

Yeah, it is essentially the same thing.
Disabling fsk or backslide would make a huge difference. No idea why Heimdallr thought it would be a good idea to allow backslide in WoE in the first place.
Sure, it's good for GX, but Chasers should have never had it.

 

I also don't think that Chasers should be nerfed, but I'm a bit biased because Stalkers were made useless by coat for so long.
Cheating ruins everything and the GMs could just ban people that are obviously cheating, but they don't.


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#130 louisn1234

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:32 AM

All veteran cheaters know how to avoid being get caught . Just saying  :p_smile:  :p_swt:  :p_idea: . reminder to gm too :P


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#131 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:41 AM

Even when gms get them they arent banned/ released in the next day :v
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#132 Myzery

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:56 AM

Because Heimdallr "Believes in reform" which isn't going to work with the Ragnarok community.
I honestly think he's one of the most uninformed people working at Gravity and it's kind of insane that he has the authority that he does.

 

If they would make the second chance be a punishment like a reverse vip buff where the person can't take kafra warps, save outside castles, etc., it might actually deter cheating.


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#133 VModCinnamon

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 06:16 AM

Earlier banning cheaters derail discussion had to be removed under the instruction of the CM, so if you wish to engage in this thread keep that in mind.


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#134 meli

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 06:17 AM

Amusing how certain people feel targetted so easily when community is only trying to adress real issues here, self-centered much. Perhaps there's a reason people complain about something over and over since the start of woe (check old threads and it's basically the same complaints), just saying.


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#135 RecaIIer

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 06:31 AM

Masquerade should be fix, should have fix cast tym even a bit to prevent that Stupid 1 flying kick and get 3 diferent masq

 

the reason why Chasers will not be caught Cheating is because Masquerade has no Cast to see.

 

i know someone who can spam Masquerade  6 -10 times per sec with no Casting.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

also main Issue here on Defending Castle is:

 

Auto Masq is on

 

a Bot SC with auto Masq is use in a corner where People Pass especially in Water Choke Defense

 

when u pass a chaser standing on a corner  u get auto Masq.

 

To see this Auto Masquerade thing, a Fix cast time should be put.


Edited by RecaIIer, 07 May 2016 - 06:43 AM.

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#136 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 06:44 AM

 

  • ​Treasure
    • Divide the god item pieces by realm with each castle receiving a unique peace
    • Left over god item piece needs to be assign to a different realm so that guilds will branch into other realms in order to complete their set.
    • Update OCA to reflect modern card drops

 

Would be better to keep them as is but increase the rate back up to .8% drop rate for god peices in woe 1.0 instead of the dumb nerfed rates which are more like .05%.

Also some treasures should just be swapped out to other things or have rates increased to actually make a typical castle worthwhile to hold. Garbage like dead branches or Old blue boxes aren't really something satisfying to get from a castle.
 


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#137 Hissis

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:03 AM

one more problem i have with sc is masq gloomy on Db Rk. It basically remove your dragon, and will force you to go back to respawn point to get back your dragon.
So let me ask you, isnt it pretty much the same as dying?

Sc have one skill that allowed them to "remove" a db Rk from a team fight and they can spam it to multi target.

Now, let see what will happen if we put that game mechanic into other class.

What if sc can use masq enevertion and permanently remove sura's spirit spheres and ability to cast zen until that sura talk with a npc outside castle.
How many of you will actually be happy and accept that concept?

So my suggestions are:
1) Prevent the usage of masq gloomy inside castle. Chaser still can use Masq ignorance to "silence" the dbRk if he need to instead of permanently silencing that dbRk until that Rk speak to npc outside of castle.

2)Create a item to summon dragon. and mado. and other type of mount. Seriously, why only ranger have this option? I know this is rangerok and all, but still.

3)Create a couple of npc inside castle where you can get your drag back. (for woe2, maybe one in every stone, barricade, and emp room).

 

So,your suggestion is to remove masq gloomy because you are playing as DB RK  (i hate this build,worst build in every aspect,killed the RUNE RUNE RUNE knight aspect).

 

fun

 

----//----

 

btw,i don't see a reason to nerf EB.

 

maybe a 0.5 sec CD can be enough,the class don't have any offensive skills,i don't think anyone  like to be a slave for 2 hours if they nerf EB...

 

 


Edited by Hissis, 07 May 2016 - 07:07 AM.

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#138 DemliekCake

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:15 AM

So,your suggestion is to remove masq gloomy because you are playing as DB RK  (i hate this build,worst build in every aspect,killed the RUNE RUNE RUNE knight aspect).

 

fun

I played as agi Rk. I couldnt careless about DbRk build.
But i know you play sura. How do you feel if you have to talk to npc outside castle everytime you got masq. That is a stupid game mechanic.

And i have to point this out since i feel that no one will get it if i dont explain it.

If you remove masq gloomy, it is actually a nerf and buff to sc.

Nerf:
1. Less effective against Db Rk. But you still can silence them if you use masq ignorance. The difference is, they dont have to be instantly wing out just to do their job again.

Buff
2. It remove masq gloomy from your masq cycle. So you will stick with either weakness or ignorance.
Let say you see a Rk with dragon running around. Before, you can either use 3 type of masq.
And against Db rk, 2 actually disable them. But against agi Rk, only 1 disable them.
So you basically have 66% chance to disable db rk (or 100% since you will use gloomy) or  against agi rk, 33% chance.

but if you actually remove masq gloomy from masq cycle, 1 out of 2 masq will actually disable both agi rk and db rk.
against db rk: masq ignorance.
against agi rk: masq weakness.

so even tho you are slightly weaker against db rk, you chance to masq agi rk should be higher, instead of using those 2 wrong masq and cost you your life.

edit: tl;dr: remove masq gloomy, sc weaker against db rk, stronger against agi rk.


Edited by DemliekCake, 07 May 2016 - 07:23 AM.

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#139 ChakriGuard

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:25 AM

Let's compare a SC to a RG Alligator
1. HP:
RG Alligator doubled, much more tanky
2. ATK:
RG Alligator one shot most people using crit EB, if not can use bellum flail
can achieve instant cast
SC masq enermy in (1-5) attempts,
using all buffs, but can not kill
3. Def:
RG Alligator has inspiration whichs make them immune to all debuff including masq, tank even gfist easily, tank no limited AS
SC are vulnerable to White imprison and masq and stone curse, Cannot tank a good gfist, a chained GOH, no limited AS.
4.Mobility
SC has more, but it doesn't matter caz CC is istant cast and 100% success rate, die after being CCed.
RG Alligator tanks everything, doesn't matter.

LOL so why is RG Alligator untouched? Oh and btw why is sura untouched? When did warlock become a problem? Not long ago you guys laugh about how bad it was, who made you fear warlock now?

 

The whole RG class should not be suffered just because ONE person is OP. The only RG I can think of that fits in your statement is Alligator. Other RGs? No problem, at least to my experiences when I was still active in WoE.

I dont really care if people want to nerf RG because I already quit RG. Everyone knows this. I like you as a good SC player Sheep but you're kind of biased on this :/
 


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#140 Hissis

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:31 AM

I played as agi Rk. I couldnt careless about DbRk build.
But i know you play sura. How do you feel if you have to talk to npc outside castle everytime you got masq. That is a stupid game mechanic.

And i have to point this out since i feel that no one will get it if i dont explain it.

If you remove masq gloomy, it is actually a nerf and buff to sc.

Nerf:
1. Less effective against Db Rk. But you still can silence them if you use masq ignorance. The difference is, they dont have to be instantly wing out just to do their job again.

Buff
2. It remove masq gloomy from your masq cycle. So you will stick with either weakness or ignorance.
Let say you see a Rk with dragon running around. Before, you can either use 3 type of masq.
And against Db rk, 2 actually disable them. But against agi Rk, only 1 disable them.
So you basically have 66% chance to disable db rk (or 100% since you will use gloomy) or  against agi rk, 33% chance.

but if you actually remove masq gloomy from masq cycle, 1 out of 2 masq will actually disable both agi rk and db rk.
against db rk: masq ignorance.
against agi rk: masq weakness.

so even tho you are slightly weaker against db rk, you chance to masq agi rk should be higher, instead of using those 2 wrong masq and cost you your life.

edit: tl;dr: remove masq gloomy, sc weaker against db rk, stronger against agi rk.

 

I never bwing when someone masq me... and i really don't care if i need to waste 30 sec~1min comming back to the castle...

 

I understand your point but you want to disable a skill to benefit a class ? I could care less if you are asking for no limits disable or something like that.

 

but whatever,you eventually will be one shotted by GOH/TC Suras  :heh:


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#141 DemliekCake

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:38 AM

1. That because you played as sura. You dont need to talk to npc outside of your castle everytime you want to cast zen when you got masq.
2. That because you played as sura. You have snap. so 30sec~1 min dont really matter.

as db rk, when you got masq gloomy, you will be a sitting duck without anything to do. Yeah, you can pretend to be useful by spamming Hundred Spear or  using Rune, but we both know you dont do anything useful. If you are hybrid, then maybe you can swap to bkatz and try to ctrl-click someone. But 1bil fix to stupid game mechanic is stupid.

and yes, GOH/TC deal stupid damage and most DB rk dont even gear swap and default tempdex, faw 24/7.


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#142 Mulder1

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:43 AM

LOL so why is RG untouched? Oh and btw why is sura untouched? When did warlock become a problem? Not long ago you guys laugh about how bad it was, who made you fear warlock now?

 

Kevin and I.


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#143 sheepmia

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:44 AM

RGs need 130b+ worth of gear ( unless you rent, wich is about 1.6b per month) to make what you described work.


Incorrect, using eden boots with spear can also do the CRIT RG job. Stop watching video and actually believe 2 megs and one hammer is required to play RG.
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#144 DemliekCake

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:45 AM

and as for no limit, surprisingly i dont have that much trouble with it. Yea, it give stupid amount of damage to AS, but on the bright side, it has long azz cd that you cant bypass with alt spamming. As for SD and Stasis, guy please. CD exist for a reason. If the one who create this skill doesnt think it should be spam and placed a cd on it, it mean it shouldn't be spam that easily.

The only different between spamming DB with ndl and spamming SD/stasis with alt is one is legit, and another is not. But is one really better than the other?

​meh.


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#145 Jezs69

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:46 AM

Remove the Global Cooldown of Release spell please!

 

Actually fix it since Release Spell is not supposed to have a global cooldown.


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#146 Hissis

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:51 AM

1. That because you played as sura. You dont need to talk to npc outside of your castle everytime you want to cast zen when you got masq.
2. That because you played as sura. You have snap. so 30sec~1 min dont really matter.

as db rk, when you got masq gloomy, you will be a sitting duck without anything to do. Yeah, you can pretend to be useful by spamming Hundred Spear or  using Rune, but we both know you dont do anything useful. If you are hybrid, then maybe you can swap to bkatz and try to ctrl-click someone. But 1bil fix to stupid game mechanic is stupid.

and yes, GOH/TC deal stupid damage and most DB rk dont even gear swap and default tempdex, faw 24/7.

 

1- I don't really care if i need to go outside for 5 seconds,i need to wait 10 seconds to fist someone.

 

2- i have played some woe's as kagerou,just speed pot .

 

Yeah,RK is useless without DB but instead of asking for something to help DB RK why not something to help the other RK's ?

 

whatever,that's not my problem and i don't think gravity will do this change .We have a lot of important things around the server for years.


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#147 Mulder1

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:57 AM

 

By all reports WoE has gotten stale. Its the same battles, for the same gear, with the same tactics.

 

<>

 

Anyway, don't mind me... I'm just waking up =).

 

Please don't add cooldown to classes that depend on DPS and can't 1 hit K.O. Please don't be biased on making decisions or at least, don't do make it that obvious lol.

 

I do like the changes btw, no alliances makes it more fun because the friendly fire. Stasis is too OP (hence why I don't use Stasis unless I Stasis my own alliance/guild when I'm bored) but that is part of the class... in kRO, I believe is not allowed to have alts, hence why Stasis was never changed. 

 

The wall bypassing thing is something that need to be addressed and the Stasis resistance formula works (I personally tested when the balance patch came in).

 

Everything else seems fine from my  point of view but the cooldown that will affect DPS classes (<>) and benefit the 1 hit K.O. classes (<>).

 

That's it... now I guess I'll go have breakfast.

 

Thank you for your time reading this =).


Edited by VModCinnamon, 07 May 2016 - 09:40 AM.
You said you were waking up! Ok. No guilds drama please.

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#148 sheepmia

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 08:39 AM

1) I'd say arguably the two would be equally difficult to kill (while they do nothing but pot).
2) Not much to say about Atk, SC has none. But they can debuff anyone and take away their shield within ~2sec, and prevent them from using any skills. (For ~20sec). Pretty much makes them as useless as a dead man. The difference is that SC has Flying Kick, Backslide, Feint Bomb, and can easily access the enemy backline, and target whoever he wants unless he is killed. SC can also immediately change targets as soon as he is done with one, by just fly-kicking onto the next target.
3) SC with Tao Gunka is impossible to one shot, I think. Except maybe Tanee gfist. Maybe. (not going to bother counting SD or TC splash). Also inspiration is pretty high cooldown, and you need to recast your buffs after that.
4) Mobility alone allows them to do so much more than an RG ever can.

Please if you have never play a SC, do not state SC is OP base on solely your feeling toward the class.

1) how is a SC hard to kill, if people are not doing it wrong?
Its HP max out at ~50k, a properly chained tao GOH can kill a SC in 2 hits
A Warlock using stone curse and white imprison combo can disable the SC as so call useless dead man easily.
A ranger can one shot sc with no limit.
A RK with bradium flaid and kaltz and proper state build and easily force SC to escape because masq hardly works fast enough before SC dies.
A sura can cc and disable SC instantly, with only poting available, the SC is likely to Be dead.
A RG can kill a SC in 2 eb, without god items.
Not to mention howls.
RG almost have non of the above problems.


2) Then how about CC? everyone can do nothing but pot and it's also an AOE debuff, so everyone is useless as dead man you say? Sura has much more mobility than a shadow chaser, and can target whoever he want, this is a funny argument btw.

3) Oh you THINK you can one shot any TAO users? It's SC's fault now? RG doesn't need inspiration to survive.

4) In reality not much more except maybe 1s faster than using speedpots. The only time a SC survive fkick into the mob of enemy is when everyone is Stasis ed.

Again since most people have never play and probably have no idea how to counter SC, doesn't mean SC is OP and have to be punished.
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#149 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 08:50 AM

So I assume my idea is the best bet about increasing the status immunity cap to 130 stat points instead of 100. Let's get this going. I'm going to ignore all the drama posts tho since its all useless hot air from plebs. So camp can you start with the status immunities cap to 130 instead of keeping it at 100. Thanks
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#150 WolfTri

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 08:50 AM

Please if you have never play a SC, do not state SC is OP base on solely your feeling toward the class.

1) how is a SC hard to kill, if people are not doing it wrong?
Its HP max out at ~50k, a properly chained tao GOH can kill a SC in 2 hits
A Warlock using stone curse and white imprison combo can disable the SC as so call useless dead man easily.
A ranger can one shot sc with no limit.
A RK with bradium flaid and kaltz and proper state build and easily force SC to escape because masq hardly works fast enough before SC dies.
A sura can cc and disable SC instantly, with only poting available, the SC is likely to Be dead.
A RG can kill a SC in 2 eb, without god items.
Not to mention howls.
RG almost have non of the above problems.


2) Then how about CC? everyone can do nothing but pot and it's also an AOE debuff, so everyone is useless as dead man you say? Sura has much more mobility than a shadow chaser, and can target whoever he want, this is a funny argument btw.

3) Oh you THINK you can one shot any TAO users? It's SC's fault now? RG doesn't need inspiration to survive.

4) In reality not much more except maybe 1s faster than using speedpots. The only time a SC survive fkick into the mob of enemy is when everyone is Stasis ed.

Again since most people have never play and probably have no idea how to counter SC, doesn't mean SC is OP and have to be punished.

First and last statement: lol. Clearly you don't know my game accounts.

1.1) Shadow Formation. 

Also, the same GoHs will drop an RG unless he's on DA. In which case he's slow as mud and can't kill crap unless you walk next to him.

1.2) WL can just as well Stone/WI the RG. 

1.3) Same as GoH's, Defending Aura.

1.4) If you can't use Masq: Weakness before your hp drops to 0 from a flail+katz RK, then you're seriously doing something wrong. Very wrong. 

1.5) SC can weakness the RG even before he can get one EB off. Or he could just manhole him. Also he can just pot it right back up.

1.6) A sura can CC an RG as well. Follow that up with a Dispell, and RG is much more vulnerable than SC.

1.7) Howls will prevent RG from killing anything either. Just that now the SC has to speed pot to escape, like an RG always has to.

 

2) I mentioned in an earlier post to remove the damage that the Sura has from TC and GoH in order to balance them, then they will only be a disable/mobile class. The difference between CC and Masq is very obvious, but I'll spell it out for you. CC isn't targeted, the Sura needs to snap to you. Once he uses CC, he is placed under CC state as well. CC only lasts 6 seconds, with an 8 second cooldown, while masqs have 2sec cooldown when successful, and last 20 seconds. The comparison wasn't between SC and Sura. It was SC and RG, when did Sura come in. Either way, Sura is also OP because of their mobility. No disagreement there.

 

3) Tao suras can be one shotted. Tao Exceed Break RGs can be one shotted. Tao SCs? Not so much.

 

4) Pretty sure there's video footage of SCs completely destroying backlines without stasis.

 

And this is all notwithstanding the additional power that the SC has from Bloody Lust/ Chaos Panic/ Maelstrom/ Reproduce. Also Full Divestment, which forces people to use FCP. And Divest Accessory. 


Edited by WolfTri, 07 May 2016 - 08:52 AM.

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