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Remove the After-Cast delay already


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#51 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 03:46 AM

To clarify the proposal is as follows.

 

  • Development of kRO of post cast delay cool downs for all skills in game. The minimum post cast delay for the skill should be EXACTLY equal to the minimum delay required to play the skill's animation as reduced by stats, and items. This should not be a nerf but a forcing of the proper cast times for all skills.

Please note that should should create no change for players. Why is this important? The game weirdly relies on animation delay instead of set cast times for a majority of skills. In stead of doing a jury rigged system we want it to be set in this manner so no matter the animation that is played there is a consistent usage rate that isn't weirdly affected by how laggy a computer is or if the moon is shining brightly on a data cable through the window.

 

Then may I ask you to explain why Bowling Bash is the odd man out?  500ms essentially caps the animation delay at an absurdly low attack speed. BlackCROSS came up with it capped around a pathetically low ~180 atk speed.  This seems like a bigger issue at hand that either you and/or kRO saw.  And there's no clear, concise explanation I can find from Gravity.

 

I hope you understand that high attack speed Rune Knights are narrowed down to only Auto Attacks.  There's really no benefit of having high attack speed with RK's skills Ignition Break, Sonic Wave, and Wind Cutter.  So that leaves Bowling Bash.  But someone's bright idea decided to that's not "fair" and slap on an absolutely insane 500ms delay.

 

Why?

 

Is asking it to be lowered to 200ms too much?


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#52 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 04:18 AM

It has been already explained, many times, they added it due to ndl abuse in woe.
If ppl didnt cheat the game would habe nice things but meh.

And yes, pvm always suffer the consequences too, coz it seems they cant apply skill changes on woe maps only. If one day they are able to do changes individually for each scenario, we may have both better pvm gameplay and better woe balance.

It may have not been a thing to worry on cheating until a while ago, but it can be a thing now that WoE TE exists.
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#53 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 04:30 AM

If 500ms was deemed necessary, then it must have been a big problem.

 

 And I mean pretty bad...

 

to justify crippling a class leveling and end-game build that would've been a OK alternative to Dragon Breath.  Another point is that not everyone participates in this 2 hour 2-3x a week event, but WoE has always been the staple of RO for a good amount of players.

 

I just can't fathom why such a huge # of 500ms.  It's unreasonable.


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#54 Kadelia

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:31 AM

Explain to me why rune knight should be the only class in the game that still has a valid second-class skill that can compete with third class skills in DPS by spamming at attack speed??????

The only distant second to what you were trying to create would be double strafe and that's not even an area of effect and has lower damage... and its only you so you can hit lock things from 12 tiles away which is a completely different abuse that's outside of this topic!

Original intent for the nerf necessary anymore or not, you can't even justify why this skill should be as strong as you want it to be. Given that this skill was always super overpowered pre-renewal and the only thing kind of holding it back was the grid lines on maps-- and the fact that there are now third-party applications that are allowed on Ragnarok that completely eliminate the handicap of the grid it's completely valid to just leave this skilled nerfed as it is now! Citing the super broken Japanese server in Korean server as your reason why we should have this skill be broken again is completely asinine.

Honestly I don't care about the minutiae of this skill so much as how selfish and deceptive your arguments are. Your persistent noise on this issue is literally what is driving me to reply to you not the actual issue itself.

Edit: note to self. Text to speech on cell phone sucks

Edited by Kadelia, 19 May 2016 - 05:52 AM.

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#55 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:55 AM

You're deliberately ignoring the other side.

 

From your and iRO's faltered view (Not kROs), 2nd class skills shouldn't be able to compete.  Why has acid bomb not been tweaked?  Sure it's a single target skill and can't be spammed with high attack speed.  But it is the highest single target, ranged 2nd class DPS and even completely dominates Tier 4 skills in certain scenarios.  But god forbid iRO customizes its beloved "Pet" class.

 

Same goes for High Speed Cart Ram.  It's got 0 delay, and can be abused to reach ungodly amounts of DPS that dwarfs most 4th tier skills.  No one bothers though, because it's mechanic; a class full of bugs and small fixes needed but neglected by the developers.

 

So how is it justified to single out a skill some cheaters decided to use to ruin a potential class build?  In the meantime, agi/ctrl click RKs are stuck auto attacking because their' attack speed doesn't benefit enough skills that warrant use.

 

edit:  and no, you are the toxic poison lingering around supporting this fix.  You just admitted your 1-sided view stating BB has always been super strong and a nerf was needed.  cmon really?


Edited by cory, 19 May 2016 - 05:58 AM.

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#56 Kadelia

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:02 AM

1) acid bomb is not a 2nd class skill.
2) its actually inferior to cart cannon for mvping now!!!! Understand what you're
Talking about before arguing!
3) acid bomb has not been nerfed! If it was and someone was begging to unnerf it 3x a day like you, I'd be wrecking them the same way I am you right now. I strongly recommend you drop this pathetic straw you're clutching at.
4) HSCR is single target you cannot be serious with this crap. If BB was single target we wouldn't be having this convo because your pvm/woe te abuse avenue wouldn't be here.
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#57 LegendaryTorgue

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:08 AM

Cory, do yourself a favour and get back to your cave.

 

This is you at the moment ...

 

aChc6oo.gif


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#58 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:08 AM

Acid bomb is a 2nd class skill

Bowling Bash is a 2nd non-trans skill.

I never said AB was nerfed.....

So single target abuse is not as big of a deal as aoe.  K.


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#59 Spoon

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:11 AM

Honestly if u have a problem with the current skills offered (or the current game mechanics affecting them), why not just change ur build to a more viable one, this game constantly changes, ur not,the first to have "their build" screwed, at least now a days it isn't hard to switch.
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#60 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:29 AM

Honestly if u have a problem with the current skills offered (or the current game mechanics affecting them), why not just change ur build to a more viable one, this game constantly changes, ur not,the first to have "their build" screwed, at least now a days it isn't hard to switch.

 

Looking back, I remember being informed that Bowling bash delay was 0.8 seconds. in this thread, back in 2010.  AFAIK, the 0.5s delay has been in since Renewal was first released. And previously, it's always had a 0.8 second fixed after-delay before that date.

 

So why was Kaddy debating that BB needed a "nerf" when in fact it wasn't nerfed at all since 2010?

 

This would bring me to a conclusion that there NEVER WAS ANY ABUSE OR CHEATERS  in the first place with Bowling Bash.  And my argument to at least lower the delay to 250ms has brought on a biased bandwagon of players who are 100% against anything regarding reducing/removing anything Rune Knight related because they had a bad experience somehow.

 

Was the delay removed accidently in a patch and cheaters started to abuse it?

 

Or

 

am I the victim of one of the reasons why iRO is in a sad state of band-aids and cheap fixes?


Edited by cory, 19 May 2016 - 06:30 AM.

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#61 RichieDagger

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:31 AM

Acid bomb is a 2nd class skill

Bowling Bash is a 2nd non-trans skill.

 

You shouldn't conflate these two. The natural progression of the core character classes is...

1st job gains first tier skill tree.

2nd job gains second tier skill tree.

Transcend 2nd job gains third tier skill tree.

3rd job gains fourth tier skill tree.

 

Actually, trans 2nd class skill, so, tier 3.


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#62 Spoon

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:57 AM

Looking back, I remember being informed that Bowling bash delay was 0.8 seconds. in this thread, back in 2010. AFAIK, the 0.5s delay has been in since Renewal was first released. And previously, it's always had a 0.8 second fixed after-delay before that date.

So why was Kaddy debating that BB needed a "nerf" when in fact it wasn't nerfed at all since 2010?

This would bring me to a conclusion that there NEVER WAS ANY ABUSE OR CHEATERS in the first place with Bowling Bash. And my argument to at least lower the delay to 250ms has brought on a biased bandwagon of players who are 100% against anything regarding reducing/removing anything Rune Knight related because they had a bad experience somehow.

Was the delay removed accidently in a patch and cheaters started to abuse it?

Or

am I the victim of one of the reasons why iRO is in a sad state of band-aids and cheap fixes?


My point is still valid, you have an issue with the current mechanic, you voiced it, got an answer, did not like the answer, but never the less your question was answered. So now, either stay with a build that is obviously infuriating you with the way the game works now, or switch and be viable
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#63 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:00 AM

This thread was created on the basis that Bowling Bash received a 500ms delay because of cheaters in WoE TE.  This looks to be not the case anymore.

The delay has been in effect since at least 2010 or god knows when.  Case closed

 

Please close this thread while I think of something else to make this forum more "lively".


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#64 Toxn

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:21 AM

BB was given a delay because of cheaters in WoE. As in, PreRenewal. NDL BB was a massive issue.

The issue of cheating would still apply to this day because of TE.


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#65 Havenn

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:21 AM

more complaints incoming


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#66 LegendaryTorgue

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:25 AM

This thread was created on the basis that Bowling Bash received a 500ms delay because of cheaters in WoE TE.  This looks to be not the case anymore.

The delay has been in effect since at least 2010 or god knows when.  Case closed

 

Please close this thread while I think of something else to make this forum more "lively".

 

Took how many people to drive it into your head? Sigh.

 

Unless the topic is useful, we don't need any of your "lively" topics. Attention seeking should have a limit, and stupid topics shut down.
 


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#67 3025140119203620510

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:41 AM

They should just remove BB+IB physical build out from RK wiki page as it's completely trash in iRO, but I believe BB should have its delay reduce/removed at least in PvM, where the majority of player plays. I really hate seeing knight sitting behind a dragon spitting out fire instead of fighting with sword like some good old medieval times in pre-renewal RO.  

Anyways this is a very old game and the developer is milking out every cent they can get until they shut it down. Good luck trying to get things changed. It's better just to move on to other class / build than waiting for never going to happen fix to be honest like other poster suggested.  

We should have had physical melee equivalent of expert archer enchant. But you can clearly see the discrimination against melee class in this game the longer it goes on. 


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#68 cory

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:41 AM

Took how many people to drive it into your head? Sigh.

 

Unless the topic is useful, we don't need any of your "lively" topics. Attention seeking should have a limit, and stupid topics shut down.
 

 

You're too far-fetched to say this was a stupid topic.  How many assumed BB delay was implemented before renewal hit?  I'm sure many didn't know.  That's a long time. 

 

And no one knows for sure, except Gravity, the exact reason why that delay exists.  You're saying it's because of cheaters.  I digress.  500ms is too long.  


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#69 Hopscotches

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:44 AM

If only there's a way to apply the change they did only to WOE scene.


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#70 RaveMaster

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:47 AM

They should just remove BB+IB physical build out from RK wiki page as it's completely trash in iRO.

 
lol ^
 
BbJxyDw.png


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#71 Toxn

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 07:48 AM

You're too far-fetched to say this was a stupid topic.  How many assumed BB delay was implemented before renewal hit?  I'm sure many didn't know.  That's a long time. 

 

And no one knows for sure, except Gravity, the exact reason why that delay exists.  You're saying it's because of cheaters.  I digress.  500ms is too long.  

 

The nerf literally was because of cheaters. I suspect you never particpated in PreRE WoE where it was heavily abused.

Regardless of if the nerf came with renewal, or before it, the nerf was put in place because of cheaters. I would say the nerf was completely unnecessary in Renewal, but then WoE TE was a thing that was created.

 

If only there's a way to apply the change they did only to WOE scene.

 

I would be completely cool with a shadow gear or something that removed it for BB, but didn't take effect in WoE or PVP areas.

Or even just add the effect to sword guardian cards and veteran swords or something.


Edited by Toxn, 19 May 2016 - 07:54 AM.

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