32 replies to this topic

[DanaAtkinson]

It is not really about the DPS, but surviability, which RK and Gene can provide over Ranger. 10-30k Cannon / DB are actually plenty under string / wandy. I have no doubt that glass cannon like Ranger are capable of bringing down KK. The biggest issue from our experience so far is they die too often, and often somewhere far away from the party (when hit by JT). The ranger themselves often don't even know where their corpses are, and this leads to a search and rescue mission, which causes my party to wipe more often than not. The over-reliance on RK for DPS is not without merit. DB RK are dependable, because it is a wipe if all DPS in the party are dead, and we want our DPS to be as tough as possible. Gene would be a second best pick since it can survive much better than a Ranger and ability to output great damage with Ghost cannons.

 

In Bio4, Ranger usually die within a range of a party, and can be GWing back / resurrect anytime. They provide a very nice DPS on fire/water resist mobs like Randel. That is not applicable to KK.
 
​GX would be fine if they manage to survive somehow. Every GX we recruit so far mostly get one shotted by some random Fireball. They are better off solo leveling at Scarba Hall, as they are very capable soloist by design.

​We have a WL party once. WL Jack frost did works to some extent, but KK cannot consistently be frozen. And the frozen KK are mistaken with a fronzen teammate. Spellbreak is very consistent and produce much better results in practice.

​I am not sure about masquerading the KK, since Shadow Chaser is a rare breed in PvM.  

[Doomsquare]

If you're recruiting later, perhaps I can join you on my ranger  

Like most, I've choosed to focus on my other chars due to this unfavorable mob. Exp, do you get enough to compensate for the deaths, waiting time, consumables. But I'll love to see how my ranger flares against these xD

[Kusanagisama]

Seriously, people... just go to Scaraba Hall entrance and make a party there. At least you can get one TI quest per day with a lot of BBs done. Just recruit at eden. You'll need a smaller party, and the exp will be better.

 

I disagree with both Ashuckel and Sewasan this time. There's a lot of strong monsters in the game (like Incarnations of Morroc, specially the angel one and Thor Volcano mobs), and there's no need to create a map harder than biolabs 3 for players that have not yet left their 120s. It seems to have the exact opposite effect, since very few people - even after maxing their characters - dare to chalenge the actual Bio 3 map, going for the easy peasy bio 4 after level 150 instead (there are even some level 14x people chalenging it). They could hide some Cecils and KKs there too. It would spice things up. I still think that should be a mid-low TI and a mid-High, and the "true" High TI should be for levels 140-150 only, and it would be no problem to have bio 3 mobs there. But that's only my opinion...

 

Though Fuyukikun (I think) said somewhere that those TI weeks are not for leveling, but for farming. That could be a good idea, but not the way it is now. If that's the idea, just put 2 biolabs 3 monsters there from time to time and make those quests accessible to everyone level 126+, since Gramps won't give exp for those above 150/50, it won't make any difference in the leveling aspect of the game, and would give players one more option for farming the high tier items of biolabs 3.

[cory]

Scaraba hall isn't mobby enough for a party.  

 

This weeks high TI was a completely unnecessary wake up call to the newbies relying on the Gramps TI "Crutch".  It's unnecessary because after high TI, most go to Bio4.  There's no comparison in difficulty between Bio4 and Bio3.  

 

Certain players need to get it in their heads that putting KK in Gramps is a terrible idea for the state of the game.  

 

We all can agree Gramps is a crutch, but would you honestly expect people from a "special education center" to pass a medical school entry exam?

[Kusanagisama]

The lack of any reasonable solution is a good evidence that this mobs shouldn't be there. I don't follow people who propose such mobs into the TI, as it is causes grievances to so many other players. The usual response "you should learn how to play RO" is getting old; a truly competent RO players who knows the game well would be able to see that this mobs are not fit for level 126-141 in places like high TI.

 

Nevertheless, I found that you can finish this TI by using some gimmicks and teamwork, after 6 completed 400 counts. There are no good strategy that will easily beat this TI without a wipe. It is usually about 3-4 wipes per each 400 counts from my experience, which is awful for a well coordinate and well geared team of players.

 

General Guidelines:

​1- Do not recruit squishy classes that cannot wear a shield (Ranger, GX). They are liability and will likely get your party wiped. 1 or 2 Ranger would be a maximum but not recommended at all. They die too often to everything and it is more of a burden to AB than the DPS benefits they provided.

​2 - General party composition would be: 

​   1-3 Sorc

   2-3 Full Support AB

​   2-4 DB RK with 120 DEX wearing Temporal DEX boot.

​   1 Stringer

   1 Wandy

​   0-1 Cart Cannon Gene (Pick Gene over Ranger)

   1 Sura

   You can get by with the minimum number required and still have 3-4 spot available. You can recruit any classe that are not squishy and can wear a shield.  They will require to have a spellbreaker accessory and Yggdrasil Leafs. RG Sacrifice is not required and you will probably want an extra hand to cast spell break (which RG can also do).

​

3 - Getting into entrance.

​    1 - Send one person on a suicide mission at the entrance to scout for opportunity to get in. 4+ KK is generally a NO NO and should wait for KK mobs to die down before attempting. 

​    2 - All of the RK should go in first, DB the mobs, and Bwing back to safety. Repeat until the mobs are cleared, then everybody go in at once. You can send Sura to tank the mob, and follow up with RK, which works as well given Sura are able to cast MS in time.

​4 - General Tactics around KK

​    1 -  Main Sorc is dedicated to cast and recast magnetic earth, and perform the usual SP battery role. ME should be recast immediately once KK breaks a hole in it. Your party lives count on it. Expect 300-400 yellow/blue gems for a 400 counts of TI.

​    2 -  String and Wandy are doing Magic String and Gypsy Kiss with other fancy buff like Dance with Warg and Frigg Song.

​    3 -  RK are main DPS, and they should stay within Magnetic Earth and spamming Dragon Breath / Water Dragon Breath under String. Brynhild / Cranial Strong shield is highly recommended. It is better to die on the spot and be revived than to take less damage but fly 20 miles away, resulting in a search and rescue mission to find your positionally bugged corpse.

​    4 -  Geneticist should use Ghost property cannon for extra DPS.

​    5 - Sura is there to be a pinball for KK. Leading the party and taking any JT hit. Brynhild is recommended to fix the annoying positional bug. If you cannot move, it usually means your character is somewhere else and you need to click at various random location on a screen to restore the correct position.

​    6 - DO NOT engage more than 3 KK at once. 4+ KK will result in a casualty and 6+ KK is generally a wipe. This duty is up to Sura to warn the rest of the team of potential danger. Sometimes you may run into the 7+ KK or it spawn next to you, and there is little you can do but to wipe and start over. Very frustrating.

​    7 - Gwing is generally a suicide.

​    8 - AB is doing the usual AB role. Unbinding praefatio is a good idea. All attacks are magic and assumptio is preferred. Stay inside Wandy and spam col. to keep everybody HP full is not a bad strategy.

​    9 - The rest of the class in the party and spare sorc have one role. Spam Spell break on the KK. This works surprisingly well if you engage UP TO  3 KK at a time. 

    10 - Unfrozen Wind armor + Cranial shield are probably the best, but will not save your life.  Nidhogger Shadowgarb, KBC Accessory, and Glorious Ring comes very handy for survivability.​ 

 

That strat is actually very nice. The only thing missing is a single Sura walking in the back lines of the team to attract those KKs that appear out of nowhere. They are the ones that usually wipe parties out, taking everyone by surprise and spreading chaos. Also, Warlocks with Soul Expansion and Intensification can be a decent help. They deal less damage than rangers, but die a lot less too, because... Cranial shield and cheap wind armor in Mora. And if there are too many KKs, they can White Imprision one to keep her at bay while the others are killed. Problem is that few warlocks have maxed SE (let alone Intensification) at High TI level, and even less can play around it, and even those with WI that I saw there didn't think about trying to lock the KK, and only used it to scape death.

 

Another thing to notice is the formation. Most fail parties I saw were just a bunch of people sticking together close to the action. It doesn't work! ABs and damage dealers shouldn't get close to the fight until the tank(s) have the mobs under control. And even when things are controled, it's always better for the healers to keep some damage. If they shot a Thunderstorm, at least the healers won't die senslessly, and can resurect the deceased.

 

It looks like the major problem is that even when people (seem to) understand this, at some point they get distracted and start acting as usual, with genetics running in front of the party, trying to kite everything, rangers getting ahead without camo and getting easily killed, people sticking together like they're hugging each other in fear (and dying a grupal death by a single spell), and so on.

 

Well, so, it's doable, only almost impossible to do without any form of coordination... It would work nicely with voice chat and everyone speaking the same language. XD

 

All the talk about trying to silence KKs... it's usually not an option for most ABs at TI level. I spammed lex divina many times there, and couldn't silence them a single time. Looks like most status ailments chance is affected by the difference in level between the caster and the target. That's why I could never freeze any Cornus at level 100 even though Jack Frost's freezing chance is 100%, and that's why I could freeze them 100% of the time at high levels. Same thing about Hazy forest mobs. When I chalenged it at first time (about level 120), I died miserably because I could never freeze any mob there. When I came back, at 140, it was not 100%, but I could freeze most of them nicely. Now the only monster there that can resist my freezing is the Little Fatum (with almost 200 MDEF...), and even them get frozen sometimes, though it lasts a second or less. My guild's 175/60 AB can easily silence KKs at Endless Tower, but my (now 140) AB could never get it done.

 

 

Scaraba hall isn't mobby enough for a party.  

 

That's definitely not true. Just spread out your party and cash the exp that comes and goes. AB follows one squishy (usually ranger or lock) and the others keep teleporting and killing, and get heal and buffs when they get close to the AB. I did some very good parties there.

 

We all can agree Gramps is a crutch, but would you honestly expect people from a "special education center" to pass a medical school entry exam?

 

That's more or less what I think about it. And it also helps explain why people complain so much when a bio 3 mob is put in High TI.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 07 June 2016 - 09:30 AM.

[fuyukikun]

for frozen chance such as cornus, it is affected by their mdef. cornus has 95 mdef. with 100 hard mdef = immunity to frozen, which makes it has like 95% resistance to get frozen. but i am not entirely sure about 100 mdef means frozen immunity since i ever froze a celia with 300 mdef in bio4 using my WL, even tho the chance is pretty small and the frozen duration is pretty short.
for lex divina/silentium, level difference of player-monster play a role here.

Edited by fuyukikun, 07 June 2016 - 11:12 AM.

[Kusanagisama]

I can't say for sure, but I have the clear impression that at least all the old status ailments (silence, stun, freeze, stone curse...) are affected by the difference in level between the caster and the target. At least in PVM. Never tried anything in PVP since I started playing in iRO...

[Ashuckel]

All status resistances are affected by base lvl. Also immunities from stats (such as stun with 100 vit) are completely negated if u are 11 or more lvls bellow ur oponent, both pvm and pvp