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#1 Coolsam

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 04:15 PM

Hey-O! CoolSam here!

 

Well while I'm looking into various things to prepare to cover everything Arcadia when it's released including how it impacts PvP I'm gonna be taking some time to answer player questions to help out any confused players. If you wanted some long-time player advice or wanna learn interesting bits of things I've learned about Dragon Saga feel free to leave a question.

 

A few guidelines;

 

  1. If you ask me regarding video updates. I'm working on getting it back up in the future. My work schedule is more forgiving and I just need to look into good editing software at this point.
  2. Any questions involving certain groups or any involvement I've had with these groups will be ignored, and likely reported. This is way too much a bad topic for any thread. It leads to accusations, spam, anger and overall a bad forum experience. To save time, my only involvement was with a crummy-geared low level. Any rumors you've heard are false.
  3. Anything involving guide updating. Not gonna be updating that Overlord guide until after any major skill changes.
  4. About Nooby Guide Videos. I'm debating re-doing it in the future. New class, new ways, re-doing areas that had recordings lost. It shouldn't take too long if I play at right times. This time without a level 45 set available at level 1. But any questions about it are accepted.

All that aside, feel free to ask.


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#2 Agitodesu

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 05:47 PM

What interesting things have you learned about dragon saga and what are you looking forward to in the arcadia update?

You retired your overlord, are you going to play a different class or go back to overlord later on if not already so?


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#3 Coolsam

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:36 PM

What interesting things have you learned about dragon saga and what are you looking forward to in the arcadia update?

You retired your overlord, are you going to play a different class or go back to overlord later on if not already so?

 

Probably the most interesting things I learn about games in general is concepts or entire themes of updates that go either halfway done or completely unreleased. In game towns, parts of big updates, events and dungeons, etc. It's pretty interesting to imagine what-if scenarios for these. For example; an entire 2nd half of the Ragnarok Update was planned and partially, if not fully, put into the game's code. It had at least 1 extra dungeon and the ability to explore Geffen Town inside instead of hanging at outskirts. Another half-way update was Kryos Unleashed. Interesting how they retconned an entire 3rd continent's first third/half and canceled Sky Garden and Ice-Castle with Frost Elf Queen bossfight with that New Origin update. There's also numerous unused monster types probably meant for concepts of updates. I remember GM's toying with monster spawning in Port of Winds and seeing strange boss/elite mob type enemies.

 

For Arcadia, I see it more as an introduction to bigger and better things. For what's been revealed and mentioned by developers that their abilities with it are limited but it will still have new maps, weapons, quests and element balance even... But given what they have to work with I see it more as a big leap in potential for future updates. Maybe including new missions and dungeons in a sort of Part 2 to Arcadia down the line in 2017. Going back to the last answer; Maybe developers can use what's unused as a shortcut. See what maps, enemies, etc. can be reskinned and remade. I know people don't like re-used mob types (LOOKING AT YOU DR. FARRELL-GOOD!) but least this times a good reason.

 

Overlord is used off and on actually. My plan is to see how this Element System Rework goes. I might go back to Overlord, make an Arcadia Blade, and gear back into 85 PvP if it's done right. If not right...well Destroyer is a good secondary choice. Resources seem cheaper now so a PoS set won't cost an arm+leg+little brother and I have a starting setup of sockets to work with. But I really want to get back into Overlord more-so as I feel any element rework is an indirect buff to any class survival wise. Only a few things were stripped from him so I can still PvP moderately geared people. No full-fledged death-stacked like I see nowadays though.


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#4 5143121023173906760

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 10:18 PM

What makes me really sad about Kryos Unleashed is that there's even quests that was talking about going into the Sky garden.
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#5 Coolsam

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:08 AM

What makes me really sad about Kryos Unleashed is that there's even quests that was talking about going into the Sky garden.

 

The F5 quest for Kryos also warns us that "She" will soon awaken. Well alarm must have been off.


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#6 Precrush

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:49 AM

Could you explain how the element numbers below the hp bars of bosses work? Is it resistance or vulnerability? If you could add an example that'd be great!


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#7 5143121023173906760

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:07 AM

Could you explain how the element numbers below the hp bars of bosses work? Is it resistance or vulnerability? If you could add an example that'd be great!


That's both.

For exemple, Elga have high numbers for element, which makes me more consitent against element attacks. Expect for nature, which is written with a negative number.

So attacking with nature is basicly more efficient against Elga.
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#8 Coolsam

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:45 AM

That's both.

For exemple, Elga have high numbers for element, which makes me more consitent against element attacks. Expect for nature, which is written with a negative number.

So attacking with nature is basicly more efficient against Elga.

 

Essentially what he said. But it's somewhat underwhelming as element attack values never spike beyond a high amount without multiple 6-star attack cards or accessories to increase attack based on your own physical/magical attack.

 

As elements was incomplete as well I'm unsure if these element numbers are properly implemented for PvE. Perhaps when they're fine-tuned to have bigger impact on PvE then we shall see. But as he said; Elga takes more damage from nature then any other element. Some bosses however take equal damage from all or don't have any negatives. Elga's technically classed as a Demolition Element boss but I'm unsure if that element was properly put into PvE also as no resistance for demolition is supposed to exist in big numbers.


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#9 5143121023173906760

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:51 AM

I think demolition is properly implemented because if you think about it, it's firebreath from it's third phase does 500 damage, even with perfect seal activated, so this rumor is actually true.

Something that I'd truely like to knlw is what about the normal monsters ? Do they have any element or defense attack ? (Except F7 bombs, of course).

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 06 June 2016 - 08:51 AM.

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#10 Coolsam

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:59 AM

I think demolition is properly implemented because if you think about it, it's firebreath from it's third phase does 500 damage, even with perfect seal activated, so this rumor is actually true.

Something that I'd truely like to knlw is what about the normal monsters ? Do they have any element or defense attack ? (Except F7 bombs, of course).

 

Orinally Element F7 bombs never had element resistance and that you could 1-shot them. But that was obviously not intended.

 

Normal monsters it honestly depends on the dungeon. Element dungeons are obvious as they have symbols by their names to show and it's likely their resistances and damage match whichever dungeon they're in. As for other dungeons it might depend on when it was released. Akia Cave, Black Claw Nest and Galaxia for example are newer cases so they may possibly have it. But an older one like Magma Dungeon or Kundara may not have it despite their bosses probably having it.


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#11 Popcorn

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:26 AM

Orinally Element F7 bombs never had element resistance and that you could 1-shot them. But that was obviously not intended.

 

Normal monsters it honestly depends on the dungeon. Element dungeons are obvious as they have symbols by their names to show and it's likely their resistances and damage match whichever dungeon they're in. As for other dungeons it might depend on when it was released. Akia Cave, Black Claw Nest and Galaxia for example are newer cases so they may possibly have it. But an older one like Magma Dungeon or Kundara may not have it despite their bosses probably having it.

 

Also mission map end bosses have these symbols by their names, including a rate of increased or decreased damage through elements. If this is working? Who knows? If it works it's not noticeable (in it's current implementation).

 


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#12 5143121023173906760

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:42 AM

For testing if a monster have element attack, we just simply have to use perfect seal and see if there is any damage output.

But I've only seen Elga dealing some actual damage atm. I might do some tests if I find the will to waste my time.
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#13 Apocryphos

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:51 PM

What are your thoughts on class modifier's for pvp?
Currently everyone is at 0.1 or a -90% 

If so how would you set them? by class.


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#14 Coolsam

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:05 PM

What are your thoughts on class modifier's for pvp?
Currently everyone is at 0.1 or a -90% 

If so how would you set them? by class.

 

 I'm for any PvP element modifier. -90% seems good for some, bad for others. Basically I'd make it a varying range of modifiers depending on the class. You'd have to list out things of each class and see how element balancing should be done for each. Essentially look at what they really benefit using elements and tone the numbers for individual classes accordingly. They'd still be in a range of 40-90% reduction overall but some would lean towards 40% while some will really need that -90%

 

Dragoon: Only the Storm Blades and Rolling Ground are their big hitters for elements. (Like -50-60%)

 

Overlord: Although it's not a main-mandatory thing, X-spam for this class is doable. But aside from that and Wyvern+Storm Blade they're more a skills for burst-damage type class and benefit from high Physical Attack. Although they're in need of some looking at damage-calculation wise, I'd say keep x-spam based builds into account but more of a middle-ground in ratios. (-50-65%)

 

Sentinel: Only real game-breakers here is shootdown and Ice shower. Whilst Ice Shower hitting anywhere from 10-20+ times is deadly, it needs a telsa+netbind to lock down long enough to do the full burst and has awakening costs and a cooldown. Shootdown is already in debate on cooldown increases also as it's the only real thing that needs to be nerfed about Archers. Aside from those and incorporating a small x-spam into combos when they're netbound, they don't have much else. (-60%-70% Depending on if and when shootdown is looked into.)

 

Destroyer: Cases like Destroyer have skills combined with X-spam modifiers.(Gatling, Shootdown, Multishot) Which gives them among the highest benefit from elements itself. Definitely a lower modifier for element attack. As they still benefit from critical hits and skills like sniping greatly to deal with tankier players. (-75% at least. Maybe even keep the -90% like stated until a skill-balance update.)

 

Invoker: Elements basically bypasses their damage fall-off that their X-spam modifiers have in PvP. Virtually no skills they use benefit from Elements also. Despite this, Invokers still need a lower ratio as the recent fast-x-attack update allowed even below-average PC's to use the x-spam properly for these classes. But also we'd have to later see the skills they do have in a balance update later down the line to compensate. (-80-90%)

 

Sorcerer: (-40-50%) Their only element benefiting skill is missles. But that's just 1 quick burst shot which requires either an off-screen surprise or freezing. They've always had a short end of the element stick so it's not as bad as other classes. If you're frozen it was either from cooperative play with their buddies or your error. Also they're more investing into Critical hits then elements anyways.

 

Savage: (-80%+)  Final Decision, Upper Screwdriver, Breakdancing skills, Aerial Frenzy, the list can go on with the number of skills that benefit from elements.

 

Ninja: (-75%) Like Savage, a good number of skills that benefit. But it's a higher skill-cap class and most ninjas would just compensate with crits similarly to Destroyers and Sorcerors.

 

Summoner: Aside from Smar Shot their skills are a mixture of Sorceror-like spells and Summons attacks. Basically Smar Shot is their only element benefit but it's an x-spam modifier and a pretty strong one at that. Accessible as early as mid-40s and in endgame has major benefits from their horrifyingly high Magic Attack buffs (70k+ in some cases) means at times they almost don't need element attack to fight high-resist players. This would be a case where looking at both elements and skills itself would be needed again. Maybe apply a fall-off in PvP for smar-shot like Diffusion or Double Shot and keep a lower ratio (-90%+). As even with 0 element attack a +20 PoS w/ Cerbs that has 30% crit rate/500% crit damage would rip through anything.

 

Twin: (-80%, Maybe 85-90% taking into account x-spam builds) This class has a mostly skills that benefit element damage being vast case like Savages, but like Overlords can mix x-spam with it but in an even better case.


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#15 Apocryphos

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:29 PM

Considering an element rework making element a lesser component to PvP,maybe instead of damage they'd provide utility, would you stand firm with your current values?If not how would you change them?

What are you're guesses on the element system rework? Readjusting Value's? Actual status infliction Burn/Freeze/Poison/Cursing/Shock? Something Else?

Have you refreshed the page just to watch my signature change  :Emo_16: 
 


Edited by Apocryphos, 06 June 2016 - 08:29 PM.

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#16 Coolsam

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:14 PM

Considering an element rework making element a lesser component to PvP,maybe instead of damage they'd provide utility, would you stand firm with your current values?If not how would you change them?

What are you're guesses on the element system rework? Readjusting Value's? Actual status infliction Burn/Freeze/Poison/Cursing/Shock? Something Else?

Have you refreshed the page just to watch my signature change  :Emo_16: 
 

 

My values are meant to be flexible for some classes. Where future developer improvements can allow for specific changes rather then broad ones. So they're very open to raising and lowering based on what's changed in the future. We gotta find a right value and the ones I put have good reasoning but may need further testing to fine-tune the right ones.

 

Elements providing utility would be interesting. But depending on the status provided might lead to some preferred over others. For example, Ice providing a varying slow or any crowd control would skyrocket demands for Ice. As something like Nature doing a poison or Fire with a burn would be less in demand.

 

My guess is that they're gonna readjust values in both PvP and PvE. Where PvP would use small ratios to lower effectiveness. I imagine they'll take the PvE system and finally look into how to make it where elements are a decent investment. As according to Popcorn, it's current system either doesn't work or is unnoticeable unless you use stuff like Perfect Seal.

 

As for your signature, I just see it change every time I see you post and respond.


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#17 Faithx

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:31 PM

Why are you still playing this game?  :wave:


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#18 Coolsam

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 04:43 PM

Why are you still playing this game?  :wave:

 

It's really off and on playing. Seeing what they're gonna do with it now.


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#19 HakannBlast

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:46 AM

What are the pve class tier list in this game  and what are best classes for beginners?


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#20 Coolsam

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:28 PM

What are the pve class tier list in this game  and what are best classes for beginners?

 

Really for pve it boils down to preference and gear-costs. For example X-spam based.

 

Do you like exclusively X-spam and heavy damage? Summoner.

Do you like having self-sustain and healing others with moderate x-spam? Invoker.

Do you like a mixture of x-spam and hard hitting skills? Destroyer.

 

Then if you dislike X-spam. I say classes like Savage and Ninja aren't bad for PvE for beginners. Sorcerer is also a good choice. But again I'd say give multiple classes a try to a certain point and see what sticks.


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#21 HakannBlast

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:32 PM

Really for pve it boils down to preference and gear-costs. For example X-spam based.

 

Do you like exclusively X-spam and heavy damage? Summoner.

Do you like having self-sustain and healing others with moderate x-spam? Invoker.

Do you like a mixture of x-spam and hard hitting skills? Destroyer.

 

Then if you dislike X-spam. I say classes like Savage and Ninja aren't bad for PvE for beginners. Sorcerer is also a good choice. But again I'd say give multiple classes a try to a certain point and see what sticks.

 

sory for double question but is savage a better overlord ?

 

they look very alike


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#22 Coolsam

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:10 PM

sory for double question but is savage a better overlord ?

 

they look very alike

 

I would say Savage can sometimes be more efficient if it's PvE. They have good dps and super-armor to prevent skill interruptions. I like a lot of their later-game set bonuses like Bone Dragon's movement speed combo and Black Dragon Lord/Protector of Stars high Health bonuses. Overlords need something in their damage calculations looked at as despite having the highest Physical Attack, can easily be outdamaged.

 

For PvP Savage can be a decent intro class. Easy to learn, brings a lot to the group (Ground stuns/flinches, air locking), has some safety with Super-Armor making it harder to fight for some classes. Overlord I say requires more experience PvP wise also.


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#23 ChungEm

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:28 PM

Can you give us some adept reviews on Dragoon ?
I have played Dragonsaga for a while, I have many characters, but my favorite one is Dragoon, but, it seems like it's lack of something, idk how to say it, but it kinda hard to run f1, gold farming, bossing when compare to other classes with same gear.
Can you also give some advices for the dev in case they want to make some kind of buffs to dragoon ?

 


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#24 Spyropurple

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:56 AM

how good are sentinel and jumeaux pve wise ?


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#25 5143121023173906760

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 03:02 AM

sory for double question but is savage a better overlord ?

they look very alike


The major difference beetween savages and overlords, is that savages have a superarmor effect that also grants damage reduction, while overlord have higher damage value and buffes that can help evrryone in your party.
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