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#1 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:22 AM

You can change the title or whatever if it's to dramatic but this conversation needs to be had imo.

 

 

I know I speak on behalf of quite a few people when I say, it seems that there's no direction nor solid goals in mind for the classic server in terms of the types of players it's supposed to cater to.

 

You have a few basic types of players, I'm going to break them down into categories that relate specifically to RO and talk about how they affect each other and influence the game. And then I'm going to ask, are these players wanted/having anything done for them or are they (inadvertently) being driven away?

 

Understand that these roles can overlap!

 

1) PVP/WOE based players

- these are people who play purely to WoE

- they have little/no interest in PVM past what is necessary to level their character / supply themselves

- they do not need to interact with anybody else because GSBs / LK OP.

- they do not add to the economy because they have everything they need and are self sufficent.

 

These kinds of players play only to pvp eachother and kill other players. They do not care about the outcome of a fight past "winning" or the rewards/prizes. They exist for a short term goal and prefer MOBA style play.

 

2) Achievers (WoE/PVM)

- these are people who will hunt/grind for a goal. Those goals could be

   - An MVP card

   - Zeny

   - levels

   - god items

   - completionist sake (stuff like making every hat or every class)

 

These kinds of players like unique things and a reward for their play. They create a good opponent for the PVP based players but do not like them. PVP players will get their jollies off of ruining the goals of these types of players in scenarios where pvp is involved. Zeny seekers will hunt things to fuel this group and pvpers.

 

3) Scientists (PVM mainly, some pvp)

 These sorts of players like to find unique ways to kill things and discover different aspects to the game; examples would be how to reach a maximum exp per hour or how to kill the hardest bosses by themselves. These sort of players tend to overlap with group 2, as they open up new possibilities for discovery with their unique equipment or help each other gain new toys. They are also the kind of people who enjoy testing niche things in pvp. They are shunned mostly by group 1 for being ineffective.

 

4) Socializers/explorers (pvm)

These are the people who sit in town, collect cute hats, talk about cats and make innefficient yet fun levelling and mvp parties. They are the people who create a visible player base, they are the people who will hunt things just to have some zeny to get by, or because they enjoy it whilst they are chatting, or simply just to help. They are often sidelined by the "hardcore" players and spoken of very little if not with complete disregard. Yet they are important because they are the first thing new players on the server will meet before they step into other groups. They fuel the economy and often the levelling groups. They make the server active and fun.

 

My feelings on playertypes in  Classic:

Group 1 dominates Classic - and at the cost of driving almost all others away.

 

Group 2 has run out of things to do. If they continue to do things as they do, this leads to server saturation / blame from others for "ruining the game". The game is evolving to punish them.

 

Group 3 are probably reaching a similar level of boredom as group 2. Maybe not quite as bad since there's tons of things that can be scienced and done for fun on classic, but that won't last long.

 

Group 4 is basically ignored and even harmed by the catering to group 1. The socialization aspects of the game are bypassed and despite requests to create more - these have always been ignored in favour or WoE changes. They feed eachother... and everyone else. Without these guys the server is dead empty and unappealing.

 

 

On Classic in general.

Without any decisiveness on what direction the server is taking and what players the server is aimed at... its very hard to keep on playing. The community is pushing for a shift toward a moba style game (and whilst I agree that RO needs some moba style content) everyone else is neglected or pushed away. I don't believe that this is the right thing to be doing. Ragnarok Online is a persistent MMORPG that was always about long term play and long term goals and a free market. Yet these things are being changed or pushed away and those players are becoming discouraged. There are many reasons why long term play is considered detrimental... mainly the attitude of "yeah, the reasons everyone may have played RO back in the day?! Forget it! change the game!"

 

tldr; the game is changing and it's not the RO that old iRO players would remember or have been a part of. It's not "classic".

 

 


Edited by Xellie, 21 June 2016 - 03:07 PM.

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#2 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:32 AM

I'm gonna add my second thoughts in a second post here because I'm pretty sure that even though I'm talking about some real simple game theory someone will report spam me and I don't want there to be any misunderstandings with people thinking I'm editing. That typo of "to" is annoying me but it's worth it not to get falsely reported.

 

There are a lot of problems with the server mechanics being faulty along with item scripts being incorrect, yet it feels/seems impossible to get these even acknowledged. This adds to classic's problems monumentally.... the woe event thread is a great example when Ramses brings up skills per second and is immediately attacked as a player/person - yet if the server is configured incorrectly is this not something that should be of concern?

 

Things such as the WoE 2 castles being on different zones to their realms means that things like link, ka buffs, magnificat, mega resist potions, fury do not carry through when you flag in or enter a castle. This is kind of a big deal, but everyone is so busy sweating the little stuff... that something like this gets no reply from the staff.

 

It's not okay. It's really not okay.


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#3 Senuto

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:38 AM

You forgot:

 

5) BOTTERS (PvM)

 

They are one of the main reasons real players get bad mood when they want to level. Example: Sphinx 4 (Anubis)... A group of 2-3 botters in a party, u see 2 (High Priests) of them use one shot skills and others (Lord Knight, Biochemist) teleporting nonstop. Gooood feeling when suddenly u are forced to handle a mob of 2-3 monsters cause they warp away on sight.

 

What the hell WP, Oda, other GM's (?!? Are there any others actually ?!?), aren't u paid enough to hire a team that can do this EASY job?

 

Frustrating..  :bang:


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:40 AM

I'm going to play devil's advocate on that one and suggest that botters sadly make the server feel alive and fuel the economy and provide sustenance for group 1/3

 

You can also argue they eliminate the need for 2 and 4


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#5 Fapman

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:04 AM

I would agree with this. I've been playing this game since Beta and in the beginning, all players fell into #2/3/4 because WoE was new and God items had not been created. Now that most guilds/players have access to dozens of Gods/MVPs, there is no reason to be #2/3/4. People now WoE to beat players they dislike and talk sh*t. This leaves players with nothing do outside of WoE. Removing Gods/MVPs from WoE does not help players in the #2/3/4 range.

 

This leaves the game with no economy (outside of WoE equips) and little friendly player interaction. I actually don't mind the botters (who the hell is going to farm all the little things like phen cards?) My problem is when as Senuto said, botters destroy maps intended for leveling (Anubis, Goats) or maps like Chiv where players USE to go to make good Zeny because Elus,Ray/Khal/Abby cards were good money. Now I go to town and see someone with 10000 elus and 5 Ray cards because they bot. I can't compete with that.

 

Where does that leave me as a solo player with little interest in being a peon in WoE? I'm either stuck competing with bots (not fun) or looking for other players in my position (there are none). Maybe this is what happens after a game has been around so long.


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#6 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:14 AM

I'm not saying btw that pvp orientated players are the devil - quite conversely, they fuel players like myself making the goals more rewarding because they add challenge. But there needs to be some real consideration on how each type of player interacts with eachother in the available content and if there's enough variety in the content to create a healthy playerbase, not one a self immolating one.


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#7 ShinRyoma

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:18 AM

Classic and its limitations create a lack of content for every player.

 

Separating them into groups doesn't seem right. There should not be any separation in the first place, not to the eyes of staff at least. They could never please so many different playstyles at the same time or give them all attention they want.

 

There is but a single type of player:

 

1- Player.

 

The Player plays the game, the Player spends cash and helps support the company. The Player gets online when he wants and stays for as long as he wants. Of all the things to do in-game, the Player choses what he wants to do and does it. If he doesn't find anything he wants to do, he logs off. That's it.

 

Separating them in groups and trying to adress them like that will create nothing good. Each group will always try to put their own interests above all else and feel harmed if something is done in favour of other group.

 

As for driving people away, someone already mentioned relevant things about this a couple days ago, but got modded. Again, it's not group 1 that drives other groups away, or the other way around. The 20 year old game drives people away. The lack of content for Players drives Players away. And yes, sometimes Players drive Players away. Trying out renewal recently gave me a bunch of different insights.

 

They are more and that's all. They also feel lack of content, just like us. They also have community "problems" and a lot of trashtalking and forum fights ect ect. But they're a good amount of individuals, so no one thinks about all that for too long. I have also come to know a few people that still like classic mechanics, but refuses to play classic due to certain people being still part of it. Those are also Players driven away by Players.I hope I made myself as clear as possible.

 

My most sincere advice: be a Player if you want to. If you don't want or don't like x content, don't take part in it. Don't try to make the staff forget about x because you want y. Ask for y. If ultimately the game is not being fun for you, don't blame the existence of x. Take a break or something. I really don't think people should do things they don't want to. And most importantly, don't try to segregate your fellow Players because they like something different than you do. They're not better or worse than you, just different. But in the end, they're just Players too.

 

 


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#8 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 10:24 AM

Classic and its limitations create a lack of content for every player.
 
Separating them into groups doesn't seem right. There should not be any separation in the first place, not to the eyes of staff at least. They could never please so many different playstyles at the same time or give them all attention they want.
 
There is but a single type of player:
 
1- Player.
 
The Player plays the game, the Player spends cash and helps support the company. The Player gets online when he wants and stays for as long as he wants. Of all the things to do in-game, the Player choses what he wants to do and does it. If he doesn't find anything he wants to do, he logs off. That's it.
 
Separating them in groups and trying to adress them like that will create nothing good. Each group will always try to put their own interests above all else and feel harmed if something is done in favour of other group.
 
As for driving people away, someone already mentioned relevant things about this a couple days ago, but got modded. Again, it's not group 1 that drives other groups away, or the other way around. The 20 year old game drives people away. The lack of content for Players drives Players away. And yes, sometimes Players drive Players away. Trying out renewal recently gave me a bunch of different insights.
 
They are more and that's all. They also feel lack of content, just like us. They also have community "problems" and a lot of trashtalking and forum fights ect ect. But they're a good amount of individuals, so no one thinks about all that for too long. I have also come to know a few people that still like classic mechanics, but refuses to play classic due to certain people being still part of it. Those are also Players driven away by Players.I hope I made myself as clear as possible.
 
My most sincere advice: be a Player if you want to. If you don't want or don't like x content, don't take part in it. Don't try to make the staff forget about x because you want y. Ask for y. If ultimately the game is not being fun for you, don't blame the existence of x. Take a break or something. I really don't think people should do things they don't want to. And most importantly, don't try to segregate your fellow Players because they like something different than you do. They're not better or worse than you, just different. But in the end, they're just Players too.

 
That is .... completely wrong. It takes all types to make a playerbase/community and acknowledging the differences in what drives those players and how they interact is super important!
(and a lot of this theory keeps in mind that these people DO NOT GET ALONG)
 
The staff have to foster a community with all the tools at their disposal. Anybody who has worked in managing, organizing or running a community understands how different people can be. In the case of an MMO its very important to make sure those interactions exist both with eachother and the game mechanics.
 
I also understood your underhanded shot and I've come to understand the staff won't defend me when it comes to this as well:
 

when you start trying to drive away other players [...] we have to stop and think about what you bring to the RO community

 
And I mean that's okay because you and every other person can continue saying that stuff and never being any examples or proof to the table and the staff seem to think it's okay to scapegoat it on me also, but I'd rather draw attention to the mismanagement of players. RO itself isn't the problem; they have the ability to create and work on and add to current content to cater to everything in the scene. But when the blame is narrowed down to one type of player, group, guild, or even a specific player in general... yeah that's a problem.
 
If you, ShinRyoma, really believe people feel that way about individual players and it's that damaging to the game - then yes it needs to be fixed. Like actually fixed, not allowed to be perpetuated, constantly said and swept away. I have to deal with it being said on a close to daily basis and it ruins my enjoyment of the game too. Along with many things that were done - for the staff it might just be a weekly annoyance and they know its an issue.... so unless it's going to be addressed, how about we never bring it up again?

 

To this day, I have literally no idea what or who you, or campitor, or anyone else who keeps mentioning that stuff is referring to. But I do know that nobody cares to give any examples, or end the rumours, or just finish it once and for all.

 

edit: my misuse of commas annoys me.


Edited by Xellie, 21 June 2016 - 10:47 AM.

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#9 ShinRyoma

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:03 AM

I'd have skyped you the following but you're not answering me there so:

 

I think you some times mistake woe rivalry with other things. There's no underhanded shot, I just think new people could take the wrong impression if I clearly stated "I've come to know people that won't ever return to classic as long as xellie and valhalla are around." There you go, now.

 

As for the acknowledgement of different types of players, mhmmm... How can I say it? Given the fact that we can't please both greeks and troyans, this whole type of player thing if taken into account in classic's management,, will immediately put the server on the clock. (Not that is not already on the clock, but oh well).

I think staff can't afford to adress classic's population as groups related to their playstyles. It will just kill a few individuals of each group at a time.

Imho the best that can be done is to try to add things without taking away what is already there. i;e: adding a third woe with limited ruleset instead of disabling items at the already existent woes. Give that new woe different rewards - I think just supplies for participants to play the next one would be enough. Maybe small rewards to amke them better, idk. I don't want winners to be helped to keep winning.

I just think that if someone doesnt want to take part they dont need to undermine the idea too. You won't see me saying on forums "no don't put more pvm content pls I don't like it" or "stop focusing on pvm focus on my woe lel". On the contrary, if I bother to say something it's encouragement. Whatever the staff implants succesfully atm is profit. Even tho I'm most likely not gonna use that content lol.


Edited by ShinRyoma, 21 June 2016 - 11:09 AM.

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#10 Aannunaki

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:16 AM

I'd have skyped you the following but you're not answering me there so:

I think you some times mistake woe rivalry with other things. There's no underhanded shot, I just think new people could take the wrong impression if I clearly stated "I've come to know people that won't ever return to classic as long as xellie and valhalla are around." There you go, now.

As for the acknowledgement of different types of players, mhmmm... How can I say it? Given the fact that we can't please both greeks and troyans, this whole type of player thing if taken into account in classic's management,, will immediately put the server on the clock. (Not that is not already on the clock, but oh well).
I think staff can't afford to adress classic's population as groups related to their playstyles. It will just kill a few individuals of each group at a time.
Imho the best that can be done is to try to add things without taking away what is already there. i;e: adding a third woe with limited ruleset instead of disabling items at the already existent woes. Give that new woe different rewards - I think just supplies for participants to play the next one would be enough. Maybe small rewards to amke them better, idk. I don't want winners to be helped to keep winning.
I just think that if someone doesnt want to take part they dont need to undermine the idea too. You won't see me saying on forums "no don't put more pvm content pls I don't like it" or "stop focusing on pvm focus on my woe lel". On the contrary, if I bother to say something it's encouragement. Whatever the staff implants succesfully atm is profit. Even tho I'm most likely not gonna use that content lol.


If people have a personal problem with Xellie who cares? She's not the one making attacks to drive players away. It's completely -_- that the staff feed into that crap.

In the topic you should really read what she is saying, at no instance does Xellie talk about removing players or denying content. It is purely about inclusions and addition
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#11 Campitor

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:31 AM

I have removed an inflammatory post (and posts referencing it).
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#12 TheLeafs

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:38 AM

Thanks Camp being fair as always and working toward making this server better  :no1:


Edited by TheLeafs, 21 June 2016 - 11:39 AM.

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#13 Campitor

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Camp being fair as always  :no1:

You called another user's opinion "Trash". Even if you disagree with them that is unacceptable behavior.

The way Xellie responding to Shinryoma is appropriate because she gave a reason why she believes that she disagrees with the other user and did so in a way that is not insulting.
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#14 Campitor

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:20 PM

Creating more content and fixing existing exploits and cheats are our number one goal at this time, and I agree with Xellie we need to be far more aware of making sure that every cycle of updates touches on benefiting all player life goals instead of focusing on individual play types.

 

Currently for pure PvP players we are working on the Classic WoE TE whose settings are being tested this week.

For the PvE players we will be getting Hazy forest running.

 

Having another meeting with kRO tonight about cheat prevention, and the process that we need to take to move somewhere on it.

 


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#15 Campitor

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:30 PM

Classic and its limitations create a lack of content for every player.

 

Separating them into groups doesn't seem right. There should not be any separation in the first place, not to the eyes of staff at least. They could never please so many different playstyles at the same time or give them all attention they want.

 

There is but a single type of player:

 

1- Player.

 

The Player plays the game, the Player spends cash and helps support the company. The Player gets online when he wants and stays for as long as he wants. Of all the things to do in-game, the Player choses what he wants to do and does it. If he doesn't find anything he wants to do, he logs off. That's it.

 

Separating them in groups and trying to adress them like that will create nothing good. Each group will always try to put their own interests above all else and feel harmed if something is done in favour of other group.

 

As for driving people away, someone already mentioned relevant things about this a couple days ago, but got modded. Again, it's not group 1 that drives other groups away, or the other way around. The 20 year old game drives people away. The lack of content for Players drives Players away. And yes, sometimes Players drive Players away. Trying out renewal recently gave me a bunch of different insights.

 

They are more and that's all. They also feel lack of content, just like us. They also have community "problems" and a lot of trashtalking and forum fights ect ect. But they're a good amount of individuals, so no one thinks about all that for too long. I have also come to know a few people that still like classic mechanics, but refuses to play classic due to certain people being still part of it. Those are also Players driven away by Players.I hope I made myself as clear as possible.

 

My most sincere advice: be a Player if you want to. If you don't want or don't like x content, don't take part in it. Don't try to make the staff forget about x because you want y. Ask for y. If ultimately the game is not being fun for you, don't blame the existence of x. Take a break or something. I really don't think people should do things they don't want to. And most importantly, don't try to segregate your fellow Players because they like something different than you do. They're not better or worse than you, just different. But in the end, they're just Players too.

You touched upon something interesting that should be addressed. When players make statements that "I won't play the server because Y plays the on the server" I really believe that they are just looking for an excuse to not play. Statements along those lines only really serve to try and drive away one user for the sake of another user who doesn't even play on the server. 

 

Ultimately I believe that our message to users who say they won't play with someone else should be "You don't have to there is no requirement you group, raid, or even talk to them. The only times of forced interaction can appear during pvp hours where the focus should be on making their character leave your castle in as fair a way as possible."


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#16 Xellie

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:08 PM

Creating more content and fixing existing exploits and cheats are our number one goal at this time, and I agree with Xellie we need to be far more aware of making sure that every cycle of updates touches on benefiting all player life goals instead of focusing on individual play types.

 

Currently for pure PvP players we are working on the Classic WoE TE whose settings are being tested this week.

For the PvE players we will be getting Hazy forest running.

 

Having another meeting with kRO tonight about cheat prevention, and the process that we need to take to move somewhere on it.

 

You still need to consider the other types of players in there though - and the sorts of errors I pointed out regarding buffs falling off...


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#17 teresias

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 03:49 PM

Creating more content and fixing existing exploits and cheats are our number one goal at this time, and I agree with Xellie we need to be far more aware of making sure that every cycle of updates touches on benefiting all player life goals instead of focusing on individual play types.

Currently for pure PvP players we are working on the Classic WoE TE whose settings are being tested this week.
For the PvE players we will be getting Hazy forest running.

Having another meeting with kRO tonight about cheat prevention, and the process that we need to take to move somewhere on it.

I agree with Xellie's post that there are indeed different types of players. I, for one, can identify in some of the player groups mentioned.

As a more of a PvM oriented person, I appreciate your efforts Camp in trying to put new contents in. But also, aside from instances, I hope you would also put in fun quests every now and then. For an item collector like me, I appreciate your more recent quests like the Valentine quest, Aladdin/Sons of Kobold quest, and even this new Gas Mask quest. Hope we can see more of those too.

Also, thank you for the homunculus event. I think only a handful of players enjoy being Afk-mist. Hopefully, in the future, there'll be more beneficial events like this and maybe something that might be beneficial to all and not just for a specific class. (hint: something that may encourage partying and those pvp/mvp oriented people to join the casuals).

Overall, PVM events this month in Classic has been fun in a way. The historic reenactment enabled us to socialize with some players too! I couldn't say much PvP-wise cos I'm not really a PVP person.

P.S.
Hope there'll be more improvements regarding castle treasure loots and supply balancing and having a fun and a more easy to organize BG, to name a few.

Edited by teresias, 21 June 2016 - 03:51 PM.

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#18 Undying

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:31 AM

Read OP and a few other posts.

I would fall into the pvp/woe exclusive group, however I would be in the MVP group if there was anything meaningful to compete over (such as VR being added or SM ect).

My theory on why a lot of people fall into this group is the following.

1. Instant gratification. More and more games, along with society, are heading in this direction. I guess it makes some sense.
2. Nothing else to do. Get gears and supplies, done lol. Want better gears or mvp cards then it will take you longer to be "done".
3. It's the only real "challenge" in game. Let's face it, the AIs here are very easy especially after many many years of playing. It's old and predictable. People are crazy and operate differently.
4. Competition. Personally, I enjoy when there was comp over MVPs, however that's no longer a thing. Woe/pvp is the last form of competition and it's not against poor AI.
5. For many players pvm/MVP goals are all centered around woe.
6. TIME LIMITS. People grow up and don't have the same amount of time to play. RO is an old school Korean grind core game, at heart. If a lot of the playerbase has jobs, family, responsibilities, and are no longer able to invest the vast amount of time it takes to be active/competitive in all aspects of the game then they will pick one or two things and stick to that. This is where I personally fall and can relate to people. That being said, those who can invest the most time, effectively, should be rewarded/accumulate advantages.


Just some food for thought.
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#19 Xellie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:50 AM

Keep in mind that there are groups of players out there that make the very minimal amount of time that you interact with them to be unbearably toxic both in game and meta game.  The natives are honestly more responsible for these actions than the "transient pserver" players as the natives constantly believe that the transients are nothing more than an annoyance and they treat them as such.

 

Lets not place all the blame on one group of players when we fail to address the natives and their behavior.  Warnings and minor slaps on the wrists were given to the natives for the actions when the same actions would have been a permaban for the "transients".  This is why there is such animosity there, when the transient group calls out the unfairness it gets silenced.  Which is why there are a large group of players out there that do not care if the "natives" quit or stop having fun.

 

If you want players to stick around in the long term, perhaps the community should start treating them fairly.  The management can enforce this by resolving reports equally.  If a transient gets suspended for a week for cursing at someone in response to their toxic behavior, the "native" population should be treated the same as well.  Enforce the rules equally or don't enforce them at all.

 

Whilst it would be nice to have a topic without you derailing it with this subject every single time - I really do appreciate you defending me like this.

 

I've been suspended for some pretty petty things, such as:

 

 - using caps in one post

 - not knowing a word was offensive in America and the forum swear filter not catching it.

 - having guildies be acting up without my knowledge

 - asking someone to "shut their mouth and get some facts" after being falsely accused of scamming and insulted for 3 pages.

 - posting "whats with all the renewal threads being market drama"

 - being angry at cinnamon and calling her out for ignoring my reports and responding to others fast - despite staff members telling me that the behaviour i reported should be dealt with and then cinnamon telling me it was okay behaviour. Repeatedly.

 - and some others with no explanation ever offered to me at all. Sometimes I've been suspended and never been told why. For some reason my forum account has emails forcefully disabled and warnings aren't displayed to the user. They don't have the manners to PM me. So I get to invent reasons in my head.

 

And I've had threats too!

 - "group bullying" via my guildmates using alt accounts to upvote someone, once. As if I know their behaviour 100% of the time.

 - reporting people that repeatedly insult me / accuse me of ruining the server

 

So I appreciate the fact that you're defending players like myself and standing up for me, I would appreciate it more if you didn't come and derail every thread I post in with it. I have to tell Valhalla members all the time to be more careful when they're defending me or it can be harmful to the cause, so I'm telling you the same thing. I know your heart is in the right place, but this is not the appropriate channel.


Edited by Xellie, 22 June 2016 - 05:59 AM.

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#20 Xellie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:52 AM

Read OP and a few other posts.

I would fall into the pvp/woe exclusive group, however I would be in the MVP group if there was anything meaningful to compete over (such as VR being added or SM ect).

My theory on why a lot of people fall into this group is the following.

1. Instant gratification. More and more games, along with society, are heading in this direction. I guess it makes some sense.
2. Nothing else to do. Get gears and supplies, done lol. Want better gears or mvp cards then it will take you longer to be "done".
3. It's the only real "challenge" in game. Let's face it, the AIs here are very easy especially after many many years of playing. It's old and predictable. People are crazy and operate differently.
4. Competition. Personally, I enjoy when there was comp over MVPs, however that's no longer a thing. Woe/pvp is the last form of competition and it's not against poor AI.
5. For many players pvm/MVP goals are all centered around woe.
6. TIME LIMITS. People grow up and don't have the same amount of time to play. RO is an old school Korean grind core game, at heart. If a lot of the playerbase has jobs, family, responsibilities, and are no longer able to invest the vast amount of time it takes to be active/competitive in all aspects of the game then they will pick one or two things and stick to that. This is where I personally fall and can relate to people. That being said, those who can invest the most time, effectively, should be rewarded/accumulate advantages.


Just some food for thought.

 

Totally agree, but I think that to feed the server and the woe population we need to spend some time thinking about those other types. I feel like the majority of other players have quit or moved on, or never really "hook in" to the game because it's unappealing to their nature.


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#21 Undying

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:16 AM

Agreed. For pure pvm stuff the challenge dung is still a decent idea. Ideally making new updates with new maps, mobs, MVP and gear would be the best course of action. Thinking about saturation while putting MVP drops and timers together should be a major focus. Gear drops are important too. They don't have to be slightly "better" then existing one, but could be more "class focused" and highlight helping alternative builds be stronger. The gear concept might be a bit beyond what the staff is honestly capable of and by that I mean knowing what will make a difference while not being too over powered. Realistically I don't know if this is a possibility or even how much time/effort is required to make QUALITY content.

Woe/pvp pop will have to step out of woe to stay updated with gears maybe. Plus comp on new MVPs is always great. Personally I'd like to see new big updates and also include some instances like renewal, however not only instances.

Turn in system with challenging maps could reward party play, although there should be a designated location for party recruitment. I hate to compare to renewal, but it's the closest thing we have. For gramps there is a commonly know. Place to recruit for parties and same for bio4. If we as the community pick a central party recruit area that might help. Forgive me if it exists, it's been a while for me.

Edited for iPhone autocorrects.

Edited by Undying, 22 June 2016 - 06:17 AM.

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#22 Xellie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:27 AM

iPhone

 

I found your problem.

 

Anyway, I think the hardest group to satisfy is the achievers in terms of if they have more to reach for, it creates power creep. Perhaps items that server a different function to the ones they currently have but have a time limited basis would server to satiate their needs?

 

I'd like to see more crossing over of pvp players into pvm - the GSB in turn in idea increasing the visible population (we are invisible in GD)

 

Something like VIP warpers in asgard just more centralization (think eden and the aperture warper) would help the community interact more. We could also have casual quests in the area... mining or fishing type things just to give people reasons to be in the same place.

 

I like the idea of some pure class based stuff too. Items that only those classes can create? It would certainly be interesting to think of things to do for them.

 


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#23 Undying

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 06:54 AM

I like the idea of some pure class based stuff too. Items that only those classes can create? It would certainly be interesting to think of things to do for them.


Agree with all of your points. VIP warper (mimicking renewals) in Asgard would be a great thing!

Quoted above because of many reason, although hard to express currently. Bare with me lol. As a pally player, when cross shields were first introduced (and rapid smite could be endowed/bypass immune) it was amazing to have alternative builds. Basically more "options" for builds that were not just for a novelty. RO is old and there are some limitations on what can be done by certain characters. However, the vast majority of skills are left useless. Back to the pally example, when the brudium shield came out it offered hope for pvm shield boom pallys. However, it was inefficent and the main use of the shield became extra go.

So going off of that crude example, instead of making a better version of a nyd garb or twinblade ect, why not make viable class specific gears? Some exist and some are amazing. A great example is LoD for hindsight scholars. I just think it would be cool to promote more of these gear types to promote alternative builds. Why not make a few slots in a bow that enables double attack for stalkers? To get 190 aspd on that class is extremely difficult as is, so the dps will never compare to a sniper, but it's a fun and efficient option. Wouldn't it be nice for a sinx to get a weapon or gear that actually makes poison a viable thing? Or a staff that lets a super novice cast SG? Or maybe give blacksmith an axe that can break gear through Fcp? Possibly better hp/reduction gear for a soul linker? What about making biochemist plants drastically stronger in woe settings so they do more then 2 skill buttons (3 if they first aid)? Anyways, just being creative for a moment and thinking about some fun things.
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#24 Xellie

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 07:13 AM

I think we should start with the basics tho - simple things that build social interaction and possibly bridge groups of players to increase the visible playerbase.

 

So Asgard. What else could it offer?


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#25 Fapman

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 08:29 AM

Agree with all of your points. VIP warper (mimicking renewals) in Asgard would be a great thing!

Quoted above because of many reason, although hard to express currently. Bare with me lol. As a pally player, when cross shields were first introduced (and rapid smite could be endowed/bypass immune) it was amazing to have alternative builds. Basically more "options" for builds that were not just for a novelty. RO is old and there are some limitations on what can be done by certain characters. However, the vast majority of skills are left useless. Back to the pally example, when the brudium shield came out it offered hope for pvm shield boom pallys. However, it was inefficent and the main use of the shield became extra go.

 

This! OMG! I never understood why SL had Crusader Spirit that benefited Shield Boom but then there were little items that could actually make the skill useful. Sin-x get 2x dmg and never miss with their SL, Saders get shield boom? PSH! Like you said, The game is so much more fun if more non-standard builds were viable.

 

Shield boom+link pally would be FUN!

 

My main is GC pally and it's a pain in the ass cause GC is VERY SP intensive, and it's a skill designed for mobbing (AoE dmg) but when monsters stack, it only it's them once. I could end up spending 2-3x the SP to kill one monster cause it stacks funky. If they had an item/items that reduced SP cost of GC or allowed GC to 3-Hit stacked units, BAM, GC pally is viable and much more enjoyable to play.

 

Obviously I'm bias, but I think it's important to know not everyone plays WoE Vit-Sac pally. Expanding these classes roles outside of WoE would make the game more enjoyable for us PvM people.


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