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The Zeny-BOT Paradox


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#1 fuyukikun

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 09:46 PM

we all know cards such as thanatos can go up to 100b, samurai 50b, meg is 40b and so on. but, do you know how the zeny introduced in the first place? how can those bilions of zeny flying around, and where are they come from?

 

well, the only way (afaik) zeny is introduced to server is by selling something to NPC and that NPC will give you zeny which will be circulated thru the server. the amount is getting bigger if people keep selling something to NPC.

 

now, which kind of player contribute most of zeny introduction on server? prankly saying, i think they are bots. those mindless drones who hunt trash items all day and sell them to NPC which generated zeny to the server. how about normal player? sure there is many people like to hunt in magma dungeon, or greeding in TI, and sell those junks to NPC for zeny. but i believe the contribution of bots on generating zeny in the server is greater than normal player.

 

well, it is the black truth i hate to admit. And also i dont actually say that whether having a lot of zeny in server is good thing or bad thing, but i can say those mindless drones are the 'hero' of this phenomenon. by introducing more zeny in server, the server will be inflated when all things will increase in price (but NPC items still have same price), and one way to counter it is by introducing zeny sink like raffler event or such.

 

TL;DR: BOTS ARE THE ONE WHO MAKE THINGS HAVE PRICE OF SKYSCRAPPER


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#2 DeadIntern

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:13 PM

What about devaluing the trash items that drop from normal monsters?

 

Then the influx of new zeny will only come from boss loots or instances. Though that would kill those players looting in TI.

 


Edited by DeadIntern, 25 July 2016 - 10:26 PM.

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#3 995150831045349567

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:36 PM

Devaluating the "trash items that drop from normal monsters" would make the (really) new players unable to keep playing xd many rely on selling loots to get zeny for pots, fly wings, npc gears, etx. There's bounty boards and TIs and some quests for pricey items, sure, but many don't know about those things o.o
I'd go for OP's proposal.

Edited by 995150831045349567, 25 July 2016 - 10:37 PM.

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#4 fuyukikun

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:39 PM

oh yeah, i forgot about zeny prize from TI and bounty, but the amount is so small compared to selling junks to NPC. 

 


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#5 mrricebox

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 11:02 PM

What about when GMs generate billions of zeny to uphold one end of a deal when a dupe is removed?


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#6 MyNameIsTaken

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 02:39 AM

What about when GMs generate billions of zeny to uphold one end of a deal when a dupe is removed?

Don't think they are generating more zeny, they are just giving zeny which already existed back to person
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#7 RichieDagger

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 02:56 AM

At one time, Oda said that WP staff have the capability of auditing the money supply. Not sure what, if any, measures are currently being taken to mitigate inflation.

 


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#8 soudou

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 03:08 AM

Though perhaps unlikely, I thought it'd be interesting to see a bot check using the same template as kROs Lucky Roulette machine. Similar to what Sortables does for phpBB forums to weed out basic bot registrations, whereby you simply drag and drop stuff from one side to the other. Bathories has an NPC you talk to before access, but the dialog options are textual and fixed so bots have an easy time getting through to farm items compared to something more randomized and image-based. As with Lucky Roulette, real players could also be rewarded for their time participating with a random item. Again, probably not gonna happen, but just a thought.

Spoiler


Edited by soudou, 26 July 2016 - 03:25 AM.

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#9 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 03:08 AM

Don't think they are generating more zeny, they are just giving zeny which already existed back to person

They do generate new zeny


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#10 gorgoroth1

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 03:22 AM

Somehow on my part it's harder to gain zeny since few month or so especially from TI/quest loots /pif. It's fine if fighting vend price with similar manual players like me but when bots join in.....eventually they will control everything, heck they already did i guess lol


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#11 hashtagplus4

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 03:43 AM

I npc-sold my two months worth of loots and only got 60m. I could've bought two KBCs with that zeny years ago. I wish we can have a bot free server.
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#12 dagger47

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:07 AM

The botter uses his 40 bots a day to collect ygg seeds making him hundreds of millions without having to do anything. He uses his free generated zenny to buy over priced gears. This keeps the prices

 

inflated at a stupidly high price point since there many botters willing to pay anything. Who loses out? the honest casual player.

 

 

In the past many people used dupes and botted to get mvp cards and gods,that why SO MANY people have gear over 100 bil. You see some of those people in woe 2, i rem hearing whispers of people selling

 

gears/accounts with gods ect on facebook/skype and you could only buy using RMT, some accounts costing over $1000. This is still going on do something CM!

 

 

Its the very reason many get angry when you ask them how they made over 100 bil.  They'l respond by insulting saying things like ''we sick of people like you who wana be spoon fed'' they know they all cant say they found a thanatos card.  :p_devil: You see they feel guilty, ashamed and know full well there isn't anything else they could really say, insulting is the best way to deflect the question.

 

 

the result?  they ruined the market for the honest casual player, only the man who has 10 accounts to only hold his duped manuals is laughing.........i hope CM ODA takes away all their stuff and bans them for life.

 

 

solution? devalue the price of everything to the point where it doesn't require RMT to buy.

 


Edited by dagger47, 26 July 2016 - 04:32 AM.

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#13 EdwinKuswanto

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:11 AM

Based on my experience in another game called "Alker Harbor", there is a "Item Limit", so this is how its work:

 

Poring, they drop: http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1002/

Poring are LV 1 monster, so if your char is 10 LV more higher than poring (LV 11), when you kill a poring, poring will not dropping anything.

 

This system called "Item Limit" will force those bots scum user to create a new char, every time they hit level limit.

 

Example:

 

Spore maps: http://db.irowiki.or...nfo/pay_fild08/

Average monsters LV is: 17(1= Spore) ~ 18 (2= Boa & Wormtail).

 

If you go to Spore maps with a char LV 29++ killing those Spore, Boa, Wormtail, you will got nothing, those monster I mentioning above will not dropping anything.

 

GM/staff can make an exception by disable this limit if you are Transcendent classes, or VIP.


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#14 4853121207141913140

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:17 AM

other servers have the level limit feature, it is disabled on iRO.


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#15 soudou

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:20 AM

This system called "Item Limit" will force those bots scum user to create a new char, every time they hit level limit.

 

Quite a few players these days are killing themselves over and over on maps to stay within level range of certain TIs, so I wonder if the bots would do the same.

If EXP % is greater than X, go to <coordinates> (with aggressive monsters), loop until EXP % is less than X, carry on farming.


Edited by soudou, 26 July 2016 - 04:22 AM.

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#16 dagger47

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 04:24 AM

GM can obviously look in anyones storage and if they find 10k manuals/safe cerf  should ban the person. But some reason they have not banned these criminals ....even after people confessed on this forum

 

they have accounts just to hold manuals!....hmm i wonder why....


Edited by dagger47, 26 July 2016 - 04:38 AM.

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#17 fuyukikun

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 05:41 AM

dagger47, you dont even understand what am i saying do u? those items dont introduce new zeny to the server, it just circulates the zeny flow from someone to other person. new zeny introduced to server by NPC from selling loots or completing quest.

for item penalty drop, i think it wont harm the bot at all since they can just make new newbs to hunt low level mobs if the bots level got too high, the penalty only hurt normal player.
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#18 mildcontempt

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 05:49 AM

The item penalty is godawful and will make it so no players ever hunt for their own items/cards. It's already a pain at .02%, turning it even smaller than that will basically guarantee the only way to get cards being OCA or bots.

 

I've always thought about how exactly some people accumulate hundreds of billions of z, and my only conclusion can be that they get a high end item like an mvp card or ultra kawaii headgear and then sell it to someone who has RMT'd money somehow (whether directly or via cash shop spamming). 

 

It's not exactly hard to see who RMT's, but that's another topic and one that'll likely get censored anyway. 

 

As for the bot introduction of z, yeah I agree. If spending 1 hour just casually killing 1k zenny loot monsters leads me to make 1-2 million, I can only imagine that a slightly less efficient but 24-7 running bot will do something like:

 

1 mil per hour @ 24 hours @ 30 bots = 720 mil per day. This isn't even counting rare drops like cards or vendable goods like strawberries or +20 food items, just generic loots you can OC like harpy feathers, antelope horns, etc. 

 

I wonder if we were to magically end all botting right now, how long would it take for the zeny to deflate to a normal degree? 

 

Side note: there's less botting in servers like euRO, and yet their inflation issue is worse than ours. Though part of that may be because of things like Bossnia which will straight up destroy MVP card markets on the spot. I don't know what other custom content they have, but eh. 


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#19 PervySageMarty

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 07:19 AM

Well an appropriate zeny sink raffle would be to have MvP cards as prizes. We will eventually get those instances that let you roulette against 3 random MvPs (with a cooldown of course) and that will make them more common as the years go by eventually anyways, so yeah? MvP raffle?

When zenny is too abundant, people sell prices higher to get more zenny; when zenny is scarce, people sell prices higher to get more zenny....its a vicious cycle.
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#20 Myzery

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 08:15 AM

Don't think they are generating more zeny, they are just giving zeny which already existed back to person

 

In special cases they create zeny and items to compensate people.
I am pretty sure it's a last ditch effort to compensate victims that have long term dupes or if the zeny has already spread to a ton of other users.


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#21 Myzery

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 08:17 AM

Well an appropriate zeny sink raffle would be to have MvP cards as prizes. We will eventually get those instances that let you roulette against 3 random MvPs (with a cooldown of course) and that will make them more common as the years go by eventually anyways, so yeah? MvP raffle?

When zenny is too abundant, people sell prices higher to get more zenny; when zenny is scarce, people sell prices higher to get more zenny....its a vicious cycle.

 

The richest people are probably not going to put their on the raffle.
You're gambling for a chance at nothing, and for an MvP card, the buy in would have to be pretty damn big.
New content is what we need. Wasting zeny on enchants, etc. is one of the best ways to get it out of the economy.


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#22 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 08:36 AM

Well an appropriate zeny sink raffle would be to have MvP cards as prizes. We will eventually get those instances that let you roulette against 3 random MvPs (with a cooldown of course) and that will make them more common as the years go by eventually anyways, so yeah? MvP raffle?

When zenny is too abundant, people sell prices higher to get more zenny; when zenny is scarce, people sell prices higher to get more zenny....its a vicious cycle.

 

People will always try to sell for the highest price possible and to buy for the lowest price possible. How high or low they can get will depend on the supply of money, in this case, zeny. If zeny is scarce, no matter how much you try to sell your MVP card for tons of zeny, sooner or later you'll either give up on selling it or give up on the price and selling it discounted. If zeny is abundant, higher prices will be achieved.


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#23 Campitor

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:04 AM

The GM team very rarely generates a positive amount zeny  when doing tradebacks; as often, it get comes down to one user whose removal from the economy means a net negative adjustment to the zeny/value pool.

 

 

On a personal note:

I would however like to see more systematic long term zeny sinks for higher level content with cheaper basic adventuring supplies for lower level players.


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#24 PervySageMarty

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:09 AM

The richest people are probably not going to put their on the raffle.
You're gambling for a chance at nothing, and for an MvP card, the buy in would have to be pretty damn big.
New content is what we need. Wasting zeny on enchants, etc. is one of the best ways to get it out of the economy.


I only disagree on the assumption that to win big, you must put in big. I believe losers will always be losers but those that can risk the stakes, make a huge deficit and drink cement and shrug it off are the real winners, because at least they had a chance to win. Stop "anal"ysing the stakes too much in percentages, its more fun considering it either you win or you lose..

And if you think i just said all that load of bull-_- for a free post count and to have my lovely Cinnamod come to moderate me, then yes you are right!!!
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#25 PervySageMarty

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 09:14 AM

Of course in relation to what Campitor says, i dare say if we do supplies we maybe make the prizes be potions that heal more than the normal and such, things that create demand easily such as that and won't turn too far into equity.

I am sure the moment you suggest it to kRO they will allow it immediately.

While we suggest such things, might i also suggest a consumable that will, for 30 minutes increases the users heal skills by 100%, grant the use of heal lvl 20 and increase sp cost of healing skills by 1.5x? I am sure it would be very popular with many, especially me where healing on my main AB is the most quintessential thing to do. You can then even include them in lucky boxes in the future!

Edited by PervySageMarty, 26 July 2016 - 09:33 AM.

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