16 replies to this topic

[dagger47]

taking up coming magic gears in mind in episode 16.1 which would the more powerful class to solo instance sorc or warlock?

[lorenz1375]

You really love seeing people fight on your threads don't you?

[Ashuckel]

both

[PervySageMarty]

They will both be evenly matched by that episode. But they will both be totally crap in damage aspect with bio5 mobs.

[Kusanagisama]

But they will both be totally crap in damage aspect with bio5 mobs.

 

Because no Tempest Shadow Set? 

[PervySageMarty]

Because no Tempest Shadow Set?

That is correct but everyone will say that you don't need those OP shadow sets to do good magic damage on them, everyone should just aim to hunt themselves a highwiz card which is obviously, you know, going to drop majority of the time and the MvP can be soloed easily.

We totally dont need the tempest sets. While I'm at it, i totally don't need to grope your boobs.

Edited by PervySageMarty, 27 July 2016 - 07:01 AM.

[dagger47]

They will both be evenly matched by that episode. But they will both be totally crap in damage aspect with bio5 mobs.

 

which class in your opinion will be best against BIO 5 mobs?

Because no Tempest Shadow Set? 

 

this saddens me...all those KRO videos of warlock doing 200 to 300k damage had me excited 

 

 

would a ME/adoromus AB be better at dealing with bio5 mobs then sorc and warlock?

[Kusanagisama]

That is correct but everyone will say that you don't need those OP shadow sets to do good magic damage on them, everyone should just aim to hunt themselves a highwiz card which is obviously, you know, going to drop majority of the time and the MvP can be soloed easily.

 

I first thought that they should nerf the sets so that it would give +10% penetration at +30 upgrade, but after I saw the Bio 5 MDEF values, I think that +30% at +30 is still lackluster. Though it will stack with KVM weapons for Tomb of the Fallen monsters, I'm sure that a lot of new monsters with retarded DEF and MDEF values will be designed.

 

I really don't care about all that argumentation on how MVP cards will be rended useless, specially since a lot of MVP cards have been rended useless with renewal and over the years, as well as normal MVP cards. Also, I care a little bit only about all the effort people had to get their hands on the MVP cards (since it's WAY more luck dependand than effort dependant, unlike Knightage Cards, for example). The problem is that the designers are making all future content based on the premise that such items are highly accessible, so stuff like 800 MDEF monsters will be a think. Ash will most likely - as we talk in a slang in our country to not give a crap about something - "cagar e andar" (crap while walking, as a cow does), since he has a High Wizard Card, and -_- other players, but this should be addressed before this content is released, since I guess only those old timers alone can't pay enough to keep the server running.

 

I also don't like the fact that something that destroys an in game mechanics to be highly accessible... from my point of view, this souldn't even be a thing at all, for god's sake, but those stupid developers already made it like this, and I'm 100% sure they won't customize all future released monsters to fit a server with no Penetration and no Tempest sets. So it seems to me that the introduction of those sets are the lesser evil in the long run. Even better if they are nerfed.

 

 

We totally dont need the tempest sets. While I'm at it, i totally don't need to grope your boobs. 

 

Thanks heaven's...

[Ashuckel]

I have a KK mvp card and even i didnt knew about it

Easy way around bio5: instead of feeding the power creep, review and rebalance the content.

[Kusanagisama]

I have a KK mvp card and even i didnt knew about it

Easy way around bio5: instead of feeding the power creep, review and rebalance the content.

 

I think you said something about having one in the past. 

 

BTW, this is kRO's devs answer to you... or us, since I also think the same way, and also think that classes should be directly rebalanced instead of indirectly through gears:

 

Edited by Kusanagisama, 27 July 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[Sewasan]

Both will be equally good, even now they are kind of paired (if not because the different skill sets both classes have and make the playstyle kind of different), i think anyway that probably Sorc is more viable because of shadow or neutral monsters being kind of difficult for WLs (Devil's Tower or Charleston es an example) and Sorc can kind of bypass that using neutral PW. But that being said you can play around that difficulties and solo stuff with no problem. With the new gear tho i think WL will be awesome in terms of DPS, specially if we talk of ghost/undead monsters because SE will be really OP.

 

About the Tempoest set discussion, i think what Ashuckel said is most interesting than just keep bringing shadow gear with mvp effects, and i dont think is impossible for our CMs to actually do that, i mean maybe balance the value of the MDEF to be a little bit paired with the DEF, so magic and physical dmg will be both viable on things like mvp or the next to come bio 5. I mean probably will be a huge thing and will take months, but i believe is a better approach, and as i said before, i think it can be done by iRO without so much delay and burocracy.

Edited by Sewasan, 27 July 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[PervySageMarty]

It all sounds good written on paper but the amount of rescripting is alot more demanding, not to say its a custom balancing for one server out of 10, and its not, as many of the devs say, part of the big 4 as well. Making custom headgears are one thing but going back through a script log to add,change,check and certify a complete update for one server.....well what do I know, its not like I know their staff temperament.

I still believe we should implement the shadow sets but if an alternative with Gravity can be achieved not like I can complain anymore.

[Kusanagisama]

I tend to say that sorcerer is stronger PVM wise because their previous classes were designed to support, and they do very well both as supports and as a suplementary DPS for a party. Also what you said about PW and holy/shadow monsters. Warlocks can't support in PVM, except for freezing entire mobs, which is unreliable and even when it works, sometimes it can hinder people rather than supporting them. On the other hand, warlock is probably the best damage-dealing class against ghost property monsters, and is also top-tier against the undead (and will be even more with OMSH).

 

Setsuna, do you really believe that any balance can be done here without going through kRO's bureaucracy? I really wish you were right, but for me it looks like they need kRO's blessings, if not kRO's direct intervention for anything. So, if the community doesn't like kRO's balancing approach, we are simply forced to chose between the lesser evil, and I tend to think that it will always be to follow the direction that the developers are taking. Not because they understand the game better than the players, but because:

 

1 - They will take that balancing feature in mind for future updates, and will react to them, so if we're missing content, there will be an even greater distortion in the future; and

2 - They can correct their mistakes in future updates, while the community cannot. Hell, we cannot even make a consensus about what is good or bad for the game, and a lot of people always resort to accusing, shunning and calling other people "elitists" or "spoonfed". Let alone admit a mistake. Thus, even if the whole community admited it, we can't change the game from that point on; and

3 - Also, game balancing is way more complex than it looks like, and every player likes to think that they are experts on it, while the vast majority doesn't even have the basic understanding.

 

Maybe in the future WP will need to add a new server if they want to please everyone: There will be the Loki Classic Server, the Chaos Renewal server and the Whatever "Classic Renewal" server, without enriched events, shadow sets, etc.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 27 July 2016 - 09:40 AM.

[Sewasan]

I tend to say that sorcerer is stronger PVM wise because their previous classes were designed to support, and they do very well both as supports and as a suplementary DPS for a party. Also what you said about PW and holy/shadow monsters. Warlocks can't support in PVM, except for freezing entire mobs, which is unreliable and even when it works, sometimes it can hinder people rather than supporting them. On the other hand, warlock is probably the best damage-dealing class against ghost property monsters, and is also top-tier against the undead (and will be even more with OMSH).

 

Setsuna, do you really believe that any balance can be done here without going through kRO's bureaucracy? I really wish you were right, but for me it looks like they need kRO's blessings, if not kRO's direct intervention for anything. So, if the community doesn't like kRO's balancing approach, we are simply forced to chose between the lesser evil, and I tend to think that it will always be to follow the direction that the developers are taking. Not because they understand the game better than the players, but because:

 

1 - They will take that balancing feature in mind for future updates, and will react to them, so if we're missing content, there will be an even greater distortion in the future; and

2 - They can correct their mistakes in future updates, while the community cannot. Hell, we cannot even make a consensus about what is good or bad for the game, and a lot of people always resort to accusing, shunning and calling other people "elitists" or "spoonfed". Let alone admit a mistake. Thus, even if the whole community admited it, we can't change the game from that point on; and

3 - Also, game balancing is way more complex than it looks like, and every player likes to think that they are experts on it, while the vast majority doesn't even have the basic understanding.

 

Maybe in the future WP will need to add a new server if they want to please everyone: There will be the Loki Classic Server, the Chaos Renewal server and the Whatever "Classic Renewal" server, without enriched events, shadow sets, etc.

 

Well yeah i was thinking more on solo situation, on a party probably Sorc will be better because is more versatile. Anyway depending on the mob WL would be better instead.

 

About kRO being needed, well, yeah im aware of that, i thouhgt that maybe some changes could be done by iRO, like for example changing some of the values of mdef of monsters or such. Im not claiming that should be the best idea, but i guess there are some things that iRO could de balance-wise, on their side, of course Campitor and Oda and the others probably knows more about what can be done and if should be done.

 

1.- Thats true, and is a really good point, sadly then, we are forced to localize every thing if we made changes now (wich is not necesarilly that bad)

2.- Well thats also true, anyway, iRO is not forced to ask to make any change on the game (to the playerbase), and of course, you will never make happy everyone, plus the rethoric in this server is strong lol xD

3.- I agree with this also.

 

Well i dnt think that considering how much people is actually playing hahahahaha
 

[PervySageMarty]

A quote comes to me when regarding about following the path of kRO or customizing iRO's own path that i find very relevant, taken from the recent tvb drama im watching "A house of old friends" starring my favourite actress Nancy Wu and my less favourite actor, Bobby yeaung:

Po Foon (Bobby) : Why are you so old fashioned(my take on the meaning of "lork hauw", which really is more of an expression to mean someone is not "in" with the current generation of thinking)? They call him Dollar-A-Mong (the cantonese name for doraemon post 2000) now.

Chanchan (Nancy) : Ding-Dong (the cantonese name for doraemon from its introduction in HK in 1975 - 2000) will always be Ding-Dong, it will never change.

From these quotes you can see there are reasons to follow or not to follow kRO's way in both quotes.

[Kusanagisama]

Should you not follow, you should just freeze time then. No new instances, no new gears, no new monsters, no new quests, no new... players, maybe? :v

 

I acknowledge that there are reasons for not following kRO, and acknowledge these reasons as well. I just want someone to refute my points and propose an alternative that is, practical and real life appliable, preferably fundamented in historical data that shows that this kind of implementation is possible. The unbalance between classes is a real problem that should be addressed, and kRO already did, even though in a manner that many here dislike. As I told before, we're forced to chose the lesser evil, and I just exposed my points to why I think that it will be following kRO at least the vast majority of times, if not all of them.
 

Plus, rebalancing the SHADOW GEARS rather than all the future content seems something more doable, but it will still come with a price for the players, specially for mechas, RGs, performers and spellcasters.

[PervySageMarty]

There is no such thing as a good alternative though Kusa my dear, we have no idea if an alternative would actually do any better considering the push itself comes from that minor party of the forum communities. I do believe though we should discuss it in the general forums though and somehow get the CM's involved to see how it goes.