12 replies to this topic

[Feuer]

DO IT. NOW! 

8 SECOND RECHARGE.

 

/end rage. 

Edit: this was totally not where I wanted to post the topic but oh well. 

Edited by Feuer, 27 July 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[todesfrucht]

If such a high cooldown should be added to mana shield ( which wouldnt be bad), the mana shield shouldnt be possible to be removed by disspell. Since this would just instantly kill a mage.

[Feuer]

False. 

 

When a mage is fully buffed they have 10 buffs at the same time.

A Knights dispel is an 80% success rate to remove 1 buff. This means your odds of removing the Barrier with a Knight dispel is 8%. 

Barrier = 1/10 (0.10)

Success = 0.80

 

(10 * 0.1) 0.8 = .08 [8%]

 

This little 'trick' is often obfuscated to prevent any legitimate balancing taking place, and I'm not going to stand idly by any more on it. Taking Barrier off the Dispel list for a trade off to Barrier having a CD is like a seesaw move, one side goes down, so you take weight off it for it to return to the exact same position. In effect, no actual balance takes place.

 

So no. Barrier should NOT be taken off the Dispel list, and should get a cooldown. 

[todesfrucht]

On the other hand, mages itself got the spell Fierce Cudgeling. Which means, in a one on one pvp a mage with the skill Fierce Cudgeling would always win against a mage without this skill. This is kind of rediculous, since this means, that every mage who goes for pvp needs to skill Aural Pierce to level 5 and Fierce Cudgeling.
So again 10 skill points would be wasted. This reduces the variety of mage builds again alot.

 

With the paradigmn update the variety playable mage builds already got reduced alot, this would just lead into 1 standard mage build everyone is going to play.

 

You described the pvp situation between a knight and a mage. I totally agree with you, that I think it is fair that knights can disspell the mage shield. But that mages can disspell other mages mana shield would just screw the pvp between mages up, if the mana shield would get cd.

 

So if the mana shield should get a high cd, I would love to see one of the further updates as well:

- Fierce Cudgeling gets a high CD like 10secs ++

- Fierce Cudgeling gets removed from the mage skills

- Mana shield can not be disspelled

 

Thanks

[Feuer]

Mage against Mage was left out because pitting the subject of discussion against itself does nothing to compare it to the rest of the subjects. No amount of arguing the internals of the Mage when compared to itself will reveal any crucial details when your end goal is to balance it to the environment it's in. In effect, you're using circular talk to run in circles around the issue, instead of addressing it directly and it's these types of fallacious debates that have prevented any true progress from being made in the past. I'm putting an end to it. 

[yamz]

or make all classes to have dispel

[Feuer]

Again, Dispel is AN answer in some cases, but in others it's not reliable to any degree. Seeing as you can 'hide' your barrier among the other standard buffs, each successive buff divides the success rate of dispelling the barrier specifically. Even if you get it once, by the time you've managed to break it a second time [it normally takes 2-3 barrier breaks with a skilled player] they've recovered all of their health. 

 

In short, Dispel is not THE answer, it's just something that can help, but majority never does.

 

The only 2 mechanics that can help you are:

Mute: Only Muse + Sword Champion have mutes in PvP.

Dispel: Only Mages and Knights have access to dispel in PvP.*

 

*Technically Bow Scouts can get a Mute, but it's highly unreliable, incredibly detrimental in group scenarios, and nearly impossible to get off before you die or they notice what you're doing and just move 15 pixels away...

 

[blaze10]

8s cd on mana shield would make mages useless, i cant think of a class that couldn't break the shield in under 5sec especially when buffed.

[SpawN9999]

8s cd on mana shield would make mages useless, i cant think of a class that couldn't break the shield in under 5sec especially when buffed.

 

visitor.

[Feuer]

8s cd on mana shield would make mages useless, i cant think of a class that couldn't break the shield in under 5sec especially when buffed.

 

Spear Champion. Bow Scout. Gun Artisan. Gun Bourge. [Or were you just talking about the elitest cookie cutter class/specs being mained right now?]

 

Beside the point.

5~6 seconds to break the shield.

Mage has range advantage.

Mage has more stuns than any combined total of second and first class skills. [ie Mages have more stuns than Champions and Knights Combined]

Mages have Several other hard CC's like Snap and Mutes.

 

If you're telling me, you can't survive 2~3 seconds between cooldowns with the toolkit Mage's have, then you need to practice more and come back when you realize how easy that would be. 

[blaze10]

my main is a bow scout and i have no problem breaking mana shield even on sellbuffs...

[antsmeister]

^^ Most certainly a mage here

[Feuer]

my main is a bow scout and i have no problem breaking mana shield even on sellbuffs...

 

Please provide a video link of you meeting the criteria we were discussing.

 

Break a full Barrier, in under 5 seconds in a 1v1 on a Mage of equal gearing to yourself. [This include clan passives and IM/Valor/Honor passive amounts, King set[s] etc]

I want to see you win that fight.