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#76 KuraBomb

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:09 PM

We already did, how about you earn it without exploits and relying on the GMs to hand you a lucky break?

 

I'd like to note that it only broke the previous week because we were DCed by the same guy. This seems to be overlooked by the staff.

 

 

Warnhal hasn't read my PM yet.

 

 

All we want is the chance to defend our econ fairly. Hell turn off the treasure/okolnir NPCs till thurs. Just make sure that the woe can be replayed as it should.

 

LOL, Never said i earned it did i? Let me scroll back up....nope! :p_idea:   But You can earn it too.  :thumb2:

Edit: you have every right to want that(defend it fairly) But thats in the hands of the GM  :p_hi:


Edited by KuraBomb, 18 August 2016 - 02:12 PM.

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#77 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:12 PM

LOL, Never said i earned it did i? Let me scroll back up....nope! :p_idea:   But You can earn it too.  :thumb2:

 

We did not earn the loss. Nothing dictates that we should not be in possession of the castle at the beginning of WoE.  Everybody is more than aware that a zergrush to the emp is a lot more favourable to the attackers than plainly attacking the castle with defenders in place.

 

 

so tell me why exactly my alliance shouldn't be able to defend from the get go? If WoE was to have never happened, (as we are asking) that is exactly as the situation would be.

 

 

The current GM decision punishes my alliance by taking away what they have earned, whilst not punishing the enemy alliance as they stood to gain nothing and thus lost nothing.

 

(assuming the exploit bans are equal in fairness regarding those two individuals - it now comes down to the alliance v alliance)

 

edit: I nearly forgot. Previous instances of castles being taken via exploits or bugs (two come to mind) both resulted in the defending guild having the castle restored.

 

Valhalla's Payon 3 on Classic

And the Valfreyja fort on Chaos that was delay recalled on - which is the reason emps cannot be broken with the third barricade present.

In both of these cases, the econ was restored to the original owners. There is a precedent here.

 

edit2: I should mention that in both of those cases a small penalty was applied to the castle economy. It wasn't to rule out that the castle could have broken, but gave the cleanest way of replaying the next WoE in a fair manner. The penalty applied was 10, I believe.

 


Edited by Xellie, 18 August 2016 - 02:25 PM.

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#78 PaulElgan

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:20 PM

@Campitor Where is my hat? :D
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#79 Campitor

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:25 PM

@Campitor Where is my hat? :D

Several hats will start distribution today.
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#80 lyndel84

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:25 PM

We did not earn the loss. Nothing dictates that we should not be in possession of the castle at the beginning of WoE.  Everybody is more than aware that a zergrush to the emp is a lot more favourable to the attackers than plainly attacking the castle with defenders in place.

 

 

so tell me why exactly my alliance shouldn't be able to defend from the get go? If WoE was to have never happened, (as we are asking) that is exactly as the situation would be.

 

 

The current GM decision punishes my alliance by taking away what they have earned, whilst not punishing the enemy alliance as they stood to gain nothing and thus lost nothing.

 

(assuming the exploit bans are equal in fairness regarding those two individuals - it now comes down to the alliance v alliance)

 

edit: I nearly forgot. Previous instances of castles being taken via exploits or bugs (two come to mind) both resulted in the defending guild having the castle restored.

 

Valhalla's Payon 3 on Classic

And the Valfreyja fort on Chaos that was delay recalled on - which is the reason emps cannot be broken with the third barricade present.

 

In both of these cases, the econ was restored to the original owners. There is a precedent here.

 

^

 

Why change the way you deal with this from a fair to an unfair decision? At least explain your reasoning behind it. Xellie "used" the bug after WoE so it should not be related to this case. The unfairness DURING WoE was only brought forth towards one side. Even if both guilds would have been dced (which frankly wasn't the case) the defending alliance would always be at an disadvantage because everyone of the alliance that dc's has to try and get back into the defence position, trying to get past dozens of angry people that just want to kill you. The attackers are in front of the defending position so in most cases they will be gathered up in order to cut off every path that leads back to the defence. Every DC will weaken the defence more than it weakens the offence. 

 

LOL, Never said i earned it did i? Let me scroll back up....nope! :p_idea:   But You can earn it too.  :thumb2:

Edit: you have every right to want that(defend it fairly) But thats in the hands of the GM  :p_hi:

 

Please get your head out of your arse.


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#81 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

This deserves to be seen, I edited it much so here's a fresh post:

 

I nearly forgot. Previous instances of castles being taken via exploits or bugs (two come to mind) both resulted in the defending guild having the castle restored.

 

  • Valhalla's Payon 3 on Classic
  • The Valfreyja fort (valf 5?) on Chaos that was delay recalled on - which is the reason emps cannot be broken with the third barricade present.

In both of these cases, the econ was restored to the original owners. There is a precedent here.

 

I should mention that in both of those cases a small penalty was applied to the castle economy. It wasn't to rule out that the castle could have broken, but gave the cleanest way of replaying the next WoE in a fair manner. The penalty applied was 10, I believe.

I remember these both quite well, as I talked with Heimdallr at the time. We discussed the fairness/unfairness of the Jologs castle quite a bit and it was my feeling that they should still hold it despite being "teh enemy" - the economy penalty was the concession for my side.

 

I'd suggest that people consult the hel.....Heimdallr fossil.


Edited by Xellie, 18 August 2016 - 02:30 PM.

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#82 teresias

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

edit: I nearly forgot. Previous instances of castles being taken via exploits or bugs (two come to mind) both resulted in the defending guild having the castle restored.

Valhalla's Payon 3 on Classic
And the Valfreyja fort on Chaos that was delay recalled on - which is the reason emps cannot be broken with the third barricade present.

In both of these cases, the econ was restored to the original owners. There is a precedent here.


If there is a precedence, then there should be consistency. Otherwise, tell us what's the difference between these scenarios before versus the scenario now that GMs were able to do restoration before and now they are not willing to do so.

Also to staff: if you provide us other channels of communication, hopefully, it is a working and active one. Not just a queue collector.
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#83 KuraBomb

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

If I had the choice you guys could have the fort back so we can duke it out again, I was having fun :p_laugh:  yet this whole thing got carried away with a non intentional incident, and was exaggerated to make it sound intentional :p_sleep: . Facts from the other side, We dc'd several times as well and knew nothing of the source(was assuming it was you guys) until after woe  :hmm: . Back to the point, Lets be honest I have no clue why the fort wasn't given back to you due to you using the same bug outside of woe. You earned the ban for the intentional stuffies yea, but no clue why they involved it into the decision of fort owner.


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#84 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:34 PM

If I had the choice you guys could have the fort back so we can duke it out again, I was having fun :p_laugh:  yet this whole thing got carried away with a non intentional incident, and was exaggerated to make it sound intentional :p_sleep: . Facts from the other side, We dc'd several times as well and knew nothing of the source(was assuming it was you guys) until after woe  :hmm: . Back to the point, Lets be honest I have no clue why the fort wasn't given back to you due to you using the same bug outside of woe. You earned the ban for the intentional stuffies yea, but no clue why they involved it into the decision of fort owner.

 

Exactly, that's all we're asking. I know a lot of people will fight the request for fairness based on disliking me or my guild - but that should not be a factor.

 

Also I'm sorry to hear that you guys got dced. That can't have been fun. :p_sick:

 


Edited by Xellie, 18 August 2016 - 02:38 PM.

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#85 Campitor

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:47 PM

Classic is now Open.
TLAPD(Fishing) can be started by speaking to Westley in Alberta by the docks.
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#86 KuraBomb

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:49 PM

Exactly, that's all we're asking. I know a lot of people will fight the request for fairness based on disliking me or my guild - but that should not be a factor.

 

Also I'm sorry to hear that you guys got dced. That can't have been fun. :p_sick:

 

 

It was still fun, wasn't fun hearing someone got banned for the non intentional thing without investigation or speaking to said person.

 


Edited by KuraBomb, 18 August 2016 - 02:50 PM.

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#87 Fonzie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:59 PM

<Oda: Please feel free to report bugs or suspect behavior to the GM Team through the ticket system! The forums are not the place to make accusations. >

 

 


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#88 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:05 PM

It was still fun, wasn't fun hearing someone got banned for the non intentional thing without investigation or speaking to said person.

 

Yeah, to be honest we didn't expect anything too severe to happen to him - there's no real polite way to say it, most us believe Tolrin to be reasonably smart. But I did neglect to consider that he may have been looking for a source of blame outwardly for his DCs as that stuff is "expected" of me for reasons. In due time I'm sure the GM team will make it all right and fair. That is more reason in my mind to reset things as if they did not happen.

 

If it means anything, one of the examples I listed was done by an alliance leader of mine without the knowledge of me or my guild. In that case it was very much deliberate - but still not appropriate to punish everyone. It really only takes one person being a douchebag to reflect on everyone else.

 

 

I'm not sure the person who is well known for rule-breaking in WoE in the form of portal recalling and using no emblem, changing emblems mid WoE, or using near transparent emblems as a means of "strategy" (lol) is in the position to be telling other people to "earn a castle without exploits."

 

Hrmm, funny. Last time I checked portal immunity went away with portal casting and is bypassed by spellbreak anyway.  Emblems both invisible and changed were legal on the server I used to play (old iRO chaos) and I have adapted to the Classic rules in terms of not changing them. We can talk about how that rule only exists because of an exploit on renewal (a guy spamming emblem changes super fast with WPE causing constant invisibility and lag) - but I do not believe that is an exploit on classic in regards to REGULAR emblem swapping.

 

There is literally no precedent for portal recalling. None. We used to report people for it all the time. ALL THE TIME. It's BM AF but you can just spellbreak the player in question if they are truly portal ecalling.

 

Furthermore, I am of the belief that iRO should adopt the rule of requiring all players to be in a guild inside the castle WITH AN EMBLEM. Other servers do this, as an instant cast offensive ME/LP under hibram is much more devastating and harder to prevent than an 8 second recall. We have lost castles to this and guildess Champions being able to apply damage to stones.  however, because only one side expresses concerns about my guild being able to do "stuff" with no emblem the request I have to review the rule for fairness often goes ignored.

 

In regards to emblem swapping. I do not. We do however have seven Valhalla guilds, with a variety of Emblems. There are logs for these things that the GMs check and I assure you I have received no warnings or sanctions for such a thing in over a year.

 

Now, I don't want to get into a call out war with you, but if I felt so inclined, please remember the videos I have on my yt channel of your guild. I don't believe that a guild that breaks the rules in terms of 3pps should be calling out another on their design tastes in emblems, or decisions to recall immediately after portalling (not portal recall as you so often call it). If you want to discuss this stuff with me and ask me to stop, do so politely and in my PM box.
 


Edited by Xellie, 18 August 2016 - 03:11 PM.

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#89 lyndel84

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:05 PM

I'm not sure the person who is well known for rule-breaking in WoE in the form of portal recalling and using no emblem, changing emblems mid WoE, or using near transparent emblems as a means of "strategy" (lol) is in the position to be telling other people to "earn a castle without exploits."

 

I don't think you can call any of that an exploit except for recall abuse. Everything else is griefplay at best and probably happened before my time as a member in this alliance as I have never seen any of that stuff happening during my active time in this guild.

 

Apart from that: If any of these exploits / any sort of griefplay happens to you, you're free to report it and the GM's shall take appropriate actions. I already mentioned in another thread that our alliance doesn't consist of angels only and everyone who thinks that everyone in their guild is always playing by the rules should get a reality check. 

 

But that's exactly the reason WHY we have to deal with these things appropriately, to make sure people play by the rules and to make sure that an environment of fair play is provided for EVERYONE.

 

PS: I'm not saying that the guild/person in question caused the DC's on purpose however with the frequency of which they happened towards the end of the last WoE and the fact that it was mostly us DCing due to the fact that the person was on our screen it's just hard for me to believe it wasn't intentional. If it really was just an accident then I feel sorry for the person being banned but all of that still doesn't solve the issue of an alliance losing their castle through unfair means.

 

This is something the GM's could fix or not, depending on how important fair play is to them or not.


Edited by lyndel84, 18 August 2016 - 03:13 PM.

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#90 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:09 PM

I tried to bring this up but got told I was starting drama, in a thread dedicated to reporting bugs. But I guess I was wrong because its normal for someone to load in 2 minutes after recalled magically after the castle breaks.

 

Uhh.... it takes less than 2 minutes to speed pot through any castle in the game... also cloaking how does it work.


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#91 Fonzie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:12 PM

Uhh.... it takes less than 2 minutes to speed pot through any castle in the game... also cloaking how does it work.

 

So you're saying you can speed pot an entire castle in 3 seconds after emp breaks? Because I was referencing the Sinx in your guild that came into emp 3ish seconds after it broke, to which you said he was lagging and you had just recalled. But yeah lets keep being a smart mouth about it because you run the show.


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#92 Xellie

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:14 PM

the recall delay bug has a timeout and 2 minutes would not work.

 

If anyone spawned into the emp room it would be because I recalled them and they landed on the portal at the time of the break. #justluina4things


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#93 Themes

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:25 PM

 

Please dont tell people to PM Warnhal if he isnt going to read their messages.


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#94 Oda

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 03:28 PM

Thread goes into hibernation mode! As Campitor is stepping back from the forums that means that I have to step in and remove some posts. Posts that are calling out, accusing people of ill mannered activity, either current or past are going to get removed. That's what the ticket system is for. Anything else is just making this place more into Tirades 2.0, in which case we just start posting maintenance threads pre-locked. 


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