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Crimson Katars VS Elemental Katars


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#1 inspectortrix

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 02:58 AM

I guess its time to rest my +9 inverse scale cause there is the new crimson katar (holy). Anybody tested how much better the crimson katars versus the elemental katars?
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#2 Javaman144

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:08 AM

I'll be riding in this thread sorry,

 

Crimson katar effects looks good,
For those who did the math,
Is it enough to replace my +12 Thanatos Katar[AK] ?


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#3 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:43 AM

They are definitely better than the elemental katars, by leagues; They only beat the Thana at higher refine rates (+10 or more). 

 

They'll be particularly nice for non 120 STR builds, I think, as the majority of their attack is from eATK. 


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#4 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:51 AM

These values are at lvl 175 ofc.

 

155 str total (120 str build)

 

+7 Thanatos

395~525 wATK *EDP= 1975~2625
+9 Thanatos

409~567 wATK *EDP= 2045~2835

+12 Thanatos

430~630 wATK *EDP= 2150~3150

 

 

+7 Crimson

246~301 wATK *EDP=1230~1505

50+49= 99 eATK *EDP= 396
wATK+eATK= 1626~1901

+9 Crimson

256~327 wATK *EDP=1280~1635

50+63= 113 eATK *EDP= 452

wATK+eATK= 1732~2087

+12 Crimson

271~366 wATK *EDP=1355~1830

50+144= 194 *EDP= 776

wATK+eATK= 2131~2606

 

 

125 str total (90 str build)

+7 Thanatos
362~492 wATK *EDP= 1810~2460

+9 Thanatos

376~534 wATK *EDP= 1880~2670

+12 Thanatos

397~597 wATK *EDP= 1985~2985

 

 

+7 Crimson

226~281 wATK *EDP= 1130~1405

50+49= 99 eATK *EDP= 396

wATK+eATK= 1526~1801

+9 Crimson

236~307 wATK *EDP= 1180~1535

50+63= 113 eATK *EDP= 452

wATK+eATK= 1632~1987

+12 Crimson

251~346 wATK *EDP= 1255~1730

50+144= 194 eATK *EDP= 776

wATK+eATK= 2031~2506


Edited by Ashuckel, 19 August 2016 - 07:53 AM.

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#5 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:04 AM

The thing that will push them over the edge over Thana, IMO, is the 2nd card slot. Given we get 20% from advanced katar mastery, one could mix n match with AK and size/racial/elemental card for an ideal katar, or just go double AK for a total of 1.7x boost to attack power. 


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#6 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:08 AM

Carding them with AK

Up to +11 Thanatos wins considering weapon alone

At +12 they are equal

+13 or more, crimson starts to get a little ahead, not that great difference tho
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#7 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:13 AM

No it isn't, but it's something I guess. I'll probably still use my AK Thana for RC because the leech effect is actually really nice. Though these will make for very nice holy/shadow weapons. In the previous thread I mentioned how crimson weapons won't be _amazing_, but good. I still hold that view, but with the realization that you can use them from base level 1 -- it will make the mace, dagger, sword, and bow verrrrrrrrry useful for leveling.  edit: apparently that's an error, have to be base 70 to use the weapons. 

 

I personally think the mace and the dagger will be very nice, and the staff/rod. The katar will replace inverse scale/unholy touch, but thana + converter will probably be better as a general weapon (I wouldn't want to make 5 or more +11 weapons with various elements loaded with AK cards.)

 

Still, the JdR will make rolling cutter great again (or more great, rather). 

 

edit: oh right, I guess if we consider that equip attack bypasses the size reduction mod, there may be some circumstances where the crimson would deal significantly more damage than a thana on large or small enemies specifically. 


Edited by mildcontempt, 19 August 2016 - 12:07 PM.

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#8 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:18 AM

Those were comparisons considering only the wATK/eATK coming from the weapons, if you get some more eATK gears(temp str, eddga etc) crimson katar will get better than thana a bit earlier.

But the leech effect is indeed nice :v
Also, Megs wont change the comparison result, i calcd :b

Edit: that was vs Medium, if ur target is small/big, crimson gets an extra edge

Edited by Ashuckel, 19 August 2016 - 08:21 AM.

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#9 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 08:34 AM

I used my actual setup for my comparisons, and I typically only calculate median variance for overrefine (as its random, anyway), and I found Crimson would win at +9 or so assuming you put 2 AK cards in it and were attacking boss flagged monsters. 

 

Still, JdR uber alles. It combined with two white knightage cards will have me verrrrrrrrry happy. Then, if I can get my hands on a Kiel to get that "almost 193" RC per second, oh my oh my. 


Edited by mildcontempt, 19 August 2016 - 08:35 AM.

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#10 inspectortrix

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:42 PM

I better farm those elements now. Another set of elemental katars would be added to my collection. So i guess a +7 elemental crimson carded with elemental card would still do the job right?
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#11 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 01:46 PM

Elemental katars were bad to begin with :v
These ones are much better ofc
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#12 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 03:46 PM

Only the holy one is worth it, IMO, and only on certain bosses. If need be, just ele convert it -- better than refining and carding multiple weapons. 

 

I could also see getting a fire ele one and carding it with double insecticide specifically for leveling on centipedes -> scaraba, but I think the hp leech effect of thana is better than the extra damage. Especially since EDP makes normal mobs a joke. 


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#13 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 04:52 PM

You can replace thana katar leech with a malicious set, the extra card slot then adding more damage
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#14 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:11 PM

I go all out on leech stuff, maximum cheapness $_$

 

(also, sp leech 2gud, at least until I/we get that headgear costume sp leech enchant)


Edited by mildcontempt, 19 August 2016 - 05:12 PM.

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#15 Ashuckel

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

I survive well enough with just thana katar+blood sucker, so i guess malicious set can replace it perfectly fine. Can switch to vana from time to time to just proc it once, no problem


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#16 tubers

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 11:24 AM

Do these outclass those KVM katars?


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#17 Ashuckel

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 12:07 PM

never


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#18 inspectortrix

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:04 PM

I was thinking using these elementals katars back to back with vana, mali set and succ/incu pet for some heavy grinding in scaraba hall. I don't know if it can do a nice sp and hp leech. Im currently using rideword, thana hf, mali set and succ pet as my gx default equip.
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