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Reduce the max DMG from certain skills / nerf new gears for some classes


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#1 HeresNatan

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 06:48 AM

Hi

I know some People that's doing 1 million~3,6 millions in damage.

Maybe I only play with support classes, but I think that's no good for ragnarok. We don't need 3m in dmg, thats not Ragnarok.

Also with bio5 content, shadow gear for classes and bio5 cards, hat-> we can get a balance for some classes like AB, Warloks, Maestros, Wandies, SC, etc...
But at the same point: some classes who's doing 3,6 millions... will it make 7 millions?

I think that some classes could only get 500k easily-> 700k OP -> more than it 10-20 ppl in server...
support classes could do Offensive dmgs with OP gears, because ppl have the righ to decide what they want to have and all should get a balanced succes (not toooo balanced but we cant commpare 3 millions with 70k, and both can be OP)

 

I dont like OP damage like that for anyone... thats to much....

TY


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#2 ROCKheir

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 09:21 PM

Wishing they just implement a damage cap for all normal attacks and skills and tone down the skyrocketing HPs of MVPs and other monsters. I don't understand how a normal (critical) attack can dish out such outrageous damage to which no (non-burst) skill damage can ever compare. I don't think normal attacks are meant to outpower skill damage. This part badly needs balancing.


Edited by ROCKheir, 31 August 2016 - 02:00 AM.

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#3 Kusanagisama

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 12:35 PM

That would be great. Some classes need to be toned down as much as other classes should be buffed. But a class has a main role, and must be good enough to perform it, and not as good as others at other roles. For example, Wandys and Maestros should never be as good as rangers at dealing damage, else, why would anyone play ranger, if you can both buff your party and deal the same damage as them? This phenomena happened a lot with sorcs when my main Warlock was on High TI leveling stage. I almost didn't see another WL, and some parties didn't want to invite me at all. Sorcerers are both great supporters (even by only serving as SP battery, they are already a great support), and can deal as much damage as a Warlock maybe even more, since they can chain spells. And they don't have access to the Staff of Destruction That doesn't mean that the difference should be as ridiculous as it is now, plus SR has a lot of drawbacks that AS doesn't.

 

Same for ABs, but this class is from an outdated design philosophy that is hard to change within Ragnarok's context, where a full support class existed, and all others basically depend on them for healing and buffs. Nowadays MMOs have a wider range of support classes, and all of them can do ok as damage dealers (not as good as main damage dealers), but some support skills are also available on damage dealing classes, so that all classes can be authonomal to a certain extent, but still able to bring unique contributions to a party.

 

For example, I always thought that DB should be gated by cooldown rather than delay. It would be good both thematically (after all, it's the dragon who produces the flame or frost, not the Knight) and mechanic wise, forcing RKs to have a bit of phyisical skills to cast inbetween Dragon Breaths, also making them easier to balance. Look, they would be knights! AND spellcasters! AND dragon trainers! Aha! Rune Knights for you, "beach"! Not "Lizard Mages". Then, if the cooldown were deemed to be too much, they could release a cool dragon-themed headgear or something, restricted to level 160+ or 170+, that reduced the cooldown of DB for those high level pokemon dragon trainers.

 

Probably won't be done, though. Unfortunately.


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#4 ROCKheir

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 02:53 PM

I really pity the wizard classes who used to be at the top for damage output before 3rd classes came to be. Now they're part of the "unwanted" classes in most leveling parties. Wishing to see their glory restored. AS and DB have become too maintsream, it's sickening.
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#5 HeresNatan

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 05:26 AM

That's horrible.

I had a wizz in the past. There was a problem because wizz had too much power. You was killed in 1shot with JT, 2, or infinites because you even could hit them.
People complaint about this class in past so they nerfed it. Poor Harry Potter fans, Hobbit, they dont have a place in Ragnarok


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#6 Kusanagisama

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 06:47 AM

That's horrible.

I had a wizz in the past. There was a problem because wizz had too much power. You was killed in 1shot with JT, 2, or infinites because you even could hit them.
People complaint about this class in past so they nerfed it. Poor Harry Potter fans, Hobbit, they dont have a place in Ragnarok

 

I agree. Though Wizards frequently lost to Hunters in MVP hunting, because hunters were better at Single Target DPS. But it was a decent competition most of the time. The problems are:

 

1) They nerfed too much;

2) They had a VERY LONG TIME to adjust the power curve, but didn't;

3) They buffed too much other classes in comparison to what their predecessors used to be.

 

So, there. Useless class successfully created.


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#7 HeresNatan

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:19 AM

At this point I only ask for OP reductions because It's not ragnarok online

we don't need to be JRO (also they could help us with balances, possibly because that's a rich country and  can pay for more developers) but we need a balanced game.
If they test every class in PVM, PvP, WoE (one against one, they only could make OP gears for too weak classes like +300% dmg while nerf OP dmgs over 1m DMG.
How many cash point's they can afford  :p_omg: 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

 

instead a class for something specific thing:
if you want to spend 200m- to do 300k dmg -> chose rangers
If you want to spend 2b to do i 300k dm in average time of 1 AS with one of these skills AV, SR or metallic sound-> you have to spend more than a ranger but they should get the same power when they have same lvl (but with more difficulties because that's not the 100% purpose)
So, people will like every class and will feel able and comptent as another.


I know that we are talking about WL, but thats important to give a game xp for new players. God knows that's one of those classes that ppl choose because they like the new serie, movie or another MMO. 
Actually ragnarok is near from old privates. In privates they had only monks, now woe= monks. RK, gx, rangers and genes->mvp. So, they would recover the spirit of 2006 game. 
I really like a lot of things about renewall, but classes doesn't have a way to compare now. befor most of classes could be OP.

 

I had an OP monk, none killed me in pvp when I was OP gear, but I got tired. Thats a OP class that I think that's taking the funny in woe + ranger (u die and even dont know how for AS)...
 


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#8 Kusanagisama

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 01:06 PM

At this point I only ask for OP reductions because It's not ragnarok online

we don't need to be JRO (also they could help us with balances, possibly because that's a rich country and  can pay for more developers) but we need a balanced game.
If they test every class in PVM, PvP, WoE (one against one, they only could make OP gears for too weak classes like +300% dmg while nerf OP dmgs over 1m DMG.

 

Korea is also a rich country, and it has nothing to do with the country. The company which owns kRO is richer. That's a big part of the reason why jRO is better developmentwise.

 

Also, balancing a game is a VEEEEEEEEEERY complex work. Most players think they are balance experts, but most of them don't know even the basics, and this is one of the few reasons which make me disagree with the rejection of anything that comes from kRO because it "seems op" in their eyes. However, it's clear like water that Ragnarok is unbalanced and it already affected game healthy a lot.

 

instead a class for something specific thing:

if you want to spend 200m- to do 300k dmg -> chose rangers
If you want to spend 2b to do i 300k dm in average time of 1 AS with one of these skills AV, SR or metallic sound-> you have to spend more than a ranger but they should get the same power when they have same lvl (but with more difficulties because that's not the 100% purpose)
So, people will like every class and will feel able and comptent as another.

 

This is exactly why unbalance occurs in the first place. If you need to spend 10 times more in a class to do the have the same level of efficiency that some other class have, then, by the time you can do it, the forementioned class will be many times richer than you AND will be able to deal 10 times more damage than you do. IMO, a big problem for Rangers is that they have great gears that are extremely accessible, thus being cheap. No other class have gears as effective for the same price... actually, most will need to pay way more money than they do. This is so true that most rangers still use WW sets or parts of it on high levels, the difference is that they use enchanted versions. So, if you want to release new gears for rangers, they will need to be even more OP, else nobody will use them.

 

For classes to be equivalent in power, they need to have the same level of effectivity at similar budgets. This include difference in roles, so, it's nothing strange that Rangers deal way more damage than ABs, but it IS strange that they deal way more damage than Warlocks at similar budgets. My second warlock deals roughly the same damage than most rangers in High TI (when No Limits is off), though I'm sure my gears cost at least 4 times more than theirs. If they had the same budget, they would surely oudamage me by far.

 

But in your example, comparing rangers to maestros, you're somewhat right that maestros should need to pay a big premium (I wouldn't say as big) for dealing damage similar to rangers, BUT they should be able to deal reasonable amounts of damage AND be great at supporting on the same budget.


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#9 Ashuckel

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 01:22 PM

Actually SR deals more damage over time than AS, but no one remembers this :v
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#10 HeresNatan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 02:44 AM

Actually SR deals more damage over time than AS, but no one remembers this :v

 

I cant do 700k with SR honey... I cant do half with better gears than a ranger. Ranger can make a very good dmg why are u saying IT?

AS has no limits + mora set + autumm headband= OP mvping... you should make this think before...
So now as you said maetro is the best one. All rangers want to be a maestro now, lol.... 
And you can't compare a 0,5seconds skill with 3 seconds skills because you can cast more thn 1 in same time


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#11 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:03 AM

SR reuse with Tempest Bow is only 1s higher than the reuse of AS. And yes SR can reach a higher total damage than AS, just take a quick look at both skills formulas :v

Edited by Ashuckel, 01 September 2016 - 03:03 AM.

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#12 ROCKheir

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:24 AM

if someone can show a video of that happening, would be nice. But then again if it's indeed true (which I still doubt atm) would be a little sad for Rangers if their supportive counterparts outdo them in 3rd Class Bow Skill Damage. I imagine it's gonna be the same drama from the pre-balance and performers will get the beyond godlike nerf the second time around.


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#13 HeresNatan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 03:46 AM

if someone can show a video of that happening, would be nice. But then again if it's indeed true (which I still doubt atm) would be a little sad for Rangers if their supportive counterparts outdo them in 3rd Class Bow Skill Damage. I imagine it's gonna be the same drama from the pre-balance and performers will get the beyond godlike nerf the second time around.

 

 

 

Reduce the damage for OP classes. Ranger can do 800K fastest than anoter classes. I won't transform It in another perform topic because all players know whats the most trashest nerferd class since renewall. There's no arguments against facts. But I think 800k is okay, not 15 millions, 3 millions... that's my purpose. There's no sense for 1m + damages because they dont need 3 seconds to do it.. Acid bombs cast and recast and castand recas...... so 1m is 4 m in some seconds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Severe rainstorm has a better formula, but theres no gear like ranger gear.. and we dont have no limits, so that's only same salt in sallad

Ragnarok Is all about the gear, about the gear, about the gear XX XD xD...
you know ..  we cant do same dmg

https://youtu.be/oryFOds-1OE?t=23s thats my daage. Also with a full attack build we can do 400k... but in 3 seconds + 2 cooldown seconds while a ranger with no limits made ++++++ more..

Anyway my prefer skill still beeing av AV because Its a good animation.. Same with mage... trans and 1st+2nd classes has beautiful animations.... 
Renewall skills has a lot of copy nd paste + ctrl x + ctrl delete


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#14 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 07:57 AM

i'ts actually quite simple to math it out

Arrow Storm 10 = 1800% * lvl/100>1800%* 175/100 = 3150%

Severe Rainstorm 5 = (Agi + Dex) * (skilLv/5)% * Lv/100 *12 hits = ((160+200) * 1)% *175/100 *12hits = 7560%

(its not hard to reach around 200 dex and 160 total agi)

 

 

But then ranger has WWset(50%) and bxb(+12=60%) and autumn(34% at 175) that boosts AS: 3150 * 2,44 = 7686%

But now Performet can make use of Hawkeye enchant to boost their SR formula(not counting their atk boost as well) with 200 dex: ((160+400)*1)% *175/100 *12hits =  11760%

I did not counted individual gear bonuses on purpose, but if anything, while ranger can get some extra ranged damage and FS on his set, Performers can use of the boosts granted by gear such as Temp Dex, FAW, Eddga Hat, etc, so they are kinda even in the end on this specific point. 


Edited by Ashuckel, 01 September 2016 - 07:58 AM.

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#15 HeresNatan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:16 AM

i'ts actually quite simple to math it out

Arrow Storm 10 = 1800% * lvl/100>1800%* 175/100 = 3150%

Severe Rainstorm 5 = (Agi + Dex) * (skilLv/5)% * Lv/100 *12 hits = ((160+200) * 1)% *175/100 *12hits = 7560%

(its not hard to reach around 200 dex and 160 total agi)

 

 

But then ranger has WWset(50%) and bxb(+12=60%) and autumn(34% at 175) that boosts AS: 3150 * 2,44 = 7686%

But now Performet can make use of Hawkeye enchant to boost their SR formula(not counting their atk boost as well) with 200 dex: ((160+400)*1)% *175/100 *12hits =  11760%

I did not counted individual gear bonuses on purpose, but if anything, while ranger can get some extra ranged damage and FS on his set, Performers can use of the boosts granted by gear such as Temp Dex, FAW, Eddga Hat, etc, so they are kinda even in the end on this specific point. 

 

Ranger is one of best classes in game. Also the only oe with balance. No OP like gene or RK... only in WOE (it takes the fun of game)
Anyway...


You dont need to hide more no limits ^^:

The Ranged     Damage boost stacks additively to other mods from equipments/cards

also you need to calc a fight because you are looking for final damage. when you cast sr you get 100% at the end of 3 seconds so we can cast 2 sr. With AS you make 1 and can hide of everything, trap, warg...
own... also + 40atk with beast bane (plants and brute) and camouflage

 

Each second in Camouflage grants +10% Crit and +30 ATK and reduces DEF by -5%, up to +100% Crit and +300 ATK. Attacking normally and using skills while in Camouflage will cancel its effects (+++potential)


Make a maestro do 500k in 1(max 2) seconds (time to make one AS). If you can't try to fight with a MVP with maestro and compare with ranger isntead only a metadata
Theres no efficience to have more dmg formula when u have a skill that needs 3 seconds to complete a damage. 
Get your maestro and do It, make a video and proof that you can do it better.

 

https://youtu.be/Wy74fcpvV_o?t=2m5s

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl9ONDrRN8k
https://youtu.be/F6ynKQq-tQk

 

 

also you need to calc a fight because you are looking for final damage. when you cast sr you get 100% at the end of 3 seconds so we can cast 2 sr. With AS you make 1 and can hide of everything, trap, warg...


Edited by HeresNatan, 01 September 2016 - 10:30 AM.

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#16 HeresNatan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:32 AM

http://pasteboard.co/fMjgZv2cg.jpg

Cheers


Edited by HeresNatan, 01 September 2016 - 10:40 AM.

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#17 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:33 AM

There's no need to determine a target if the target is the same for both, the result wont change.

And all i said was

Actually SR deals more damage over time than AS
 
in wich i'm not wrong
 
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#18 HeresNatan

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 10:40 AM

 

There's no need to determine a target if the target is the same for both, the result wont change.

And all i said was

 

 
in wich i'm not wrong
 

 

well...  I know that Sr can do + (but 3 seconds to complete it), and->
wheres no limit in your formula?
whats the maestro with 700k dmg?
theres a difference between theory and practic, and ranger wins 


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