39 replies to this topic

[Semitron]

Will there be any solution/fix that will help out classes such as clerics/summoners will have a way better time farming f1, with spamming x (which they are supposte to do) without getting a F all the time?

[Coolsam]

I mean it isn't hard to use a few skills alongside it. Sure it adds a few seconds but what's a small extra time compared to very unstable ranks. Invokers use Spark Rocks and magnet+heaven wraths, Summoners use rolling stones and other skills.

[5143121023173906760]

Chain lighting = Autoaim + No cooldown

[Fliederduft78]

Chain lighting = Autoaim + No cooldown

 

^ This.

 

 

We have some invokers and priests in our guild and I've seen them doing their thing. This is the most underrated skill ever. Use it, it is pretty effective.
 

[Agitodesu]

You can cast spells with any x spammers and complete it relatively fast with an S-SSS.

[Precrush]

Well it's still not good, only tolerable.

 

EDIT: If and when the damage situation gets sorted, I'd say then there's good reason to look for some improvements here. Right now clerics and summoners kind of pay for their high damage and clear speed in dungeons with this drawback, so it's in a way justified.

Edited by Precrush, 05 September 2016 - 07:15 PM.

[UpSyndrome13]

Well it's still not good, only tolerable.

 

EDIT: If and when the damage situation gets sorted, I'd say then there's good reason to look for some improvements here. Right now clerics and summoners kind of pay for their high damage and clear speed in dungeons with this drawback, so it's in a way justified.

 

This. Played Dragon Saga back when it's handler was gPotato. The Cleric's "Double Shot" back then was passive and dealt a big amount of damage compared to what it is now. When Gravity took over Dragonica, the Clerics were nerfed to the point where we struggled for a moment to get our timings. "Double Shot" became active, "Rain of Fire" dealt less damage, etc but our heals got bigger tho.

 

Back before the "balancing", I used to solo Lavalon and can finish him in 8-10 minutes at level 45-48 with no proper equipments. Right now, people say that soloing Lavalon at these levels takes forever. Haven't tried it yet.

 

And ohh. Don't forget. Spark Rock's area got a lil bit smaller.

[5143121023173906760]

#MakeDragonSagaGreatAgain
#GetMMOoutOfRpg

Cleric is the worst class to play for sure, need buff so badly. Galaxia ruined this class.

[IsThisKrustyKrab]

I thought the popular opinion here is that Sorcerers and Dragoons are the worst classes ever. But let's not cause an argument, now, shall we?

 

Summoners can use a huge repertoire of skills, but heavily dependent on Energy Circulation though. I recently respeced to such a Summoner, and while the clear time is not as good as it used to be, it's not so bad once you get used to it. Heck, you can even crowd control in Dungeons with such a play style.

 

I think the x-spammer who has it the worst are Clerics/Invokers. With only 4-5 skills to toy around with in F1 ranking, and long proc and cooldown times bar Rain of Fire (*shudder*) and Chain Lightning (VERY susceptible to internet lag), it can't really do anything much solo besides x-spam (gives terrible rank) and heals.

[Coolsam]

I thought the popular opinion here is that Sorcerers and Dragoons are the worst classes ever. But let's not cause an argument, now, shall we?

 

Summoners can use a huge repertoire of skills, but heavily dependent on Energy Circulation though. I recently respeced to such a Summoner, and while the clear time is not as good as it used to be, it's not so bad once you get used to it. Heck, you can even crowd control in Dungeons with such a play style.

 

I think the x-spammer who has it the worst are Clerics/Invokers. With only 4-5 skills to toy around with in F1 ranking, and long proc and cooldown times bar Rain of Fire (*shudder*) and Chain Lightning (VERY susceptible to internet lag), it can't really do anything much solo besides x-spam (gives terrible rank) and heals.

 

Not quite. Dragoons you can say as well, they're balanced and quite good but there's so much better with less difficulty. Even Savages are considered the "New Dragoons" with their super-armor and mixed ground/air combos.

 

Sorcerers on the other hand, are a great class. An amazing team player, good PvE clear, healing with good damage. I'd personally love to try Sorcerer in the future myself even.

 

Summoners are meant to be a sorta Sorcerer/Invoker hybrid but with less healing. The skills themselves are basically crowd-control with okay damage like a Sorcerer. Then you have Smar-shot which by itself is the Invoker half. Just when chain combos got introduced Smar shot got the god-send buff that made it terrifying.

 

Invokers aren't so bad. Chain Lighting is good for rank building, Spark Rock is okay once you use Casting Acceleration which if you don't have I feel bad for you. Awakening Heaven's Wrath is a good rank-spike and you can use a combo with Magnet in the F1 boss-room to make sure you blast every mob in an AoE.

[Onyzer]

Invokers and Summoners can easily farm end-game instances which isn't something every other classes can do. I already saw a Summoner clearing Elga in less than 10 minutes while (with more or less the same gear) it takes me a little bit more than 30 minutes as Destroyer. I also know an Invoker who can solo it in aproximately 15 minutes.

 

I think the way it is now is pretty fine since they have a big advantage somewhere and a disadvantage somewhere else.

[5143121023173906760]

I think the x-spammer who has it the worst are Clerics/Invokers. With only 4-5 skills to toy around with in F1 ranking, and long proc and cooldown times bar Rain of Fire (*shudder*) and Chain Lightning (VERY susceptible to internet lag), it can't really do anything much solo besides x-spam (gives terrible rank) and heals.

Invoker's skills can instant kill as soon as you land a critical hit. So the best option you have is to build a whole critical rate build and you can complete the arcade in less than 1:30.

Also Chain Lightning isn't a big deal as soon as you get used to it, and if you lag, you simply don't farm arcade at all. It will be bad regardless of which class you play.

[Popcorn]

Hello,

 

main problem of the most x-attack classes is being overstacked with items increasing the damage. With a "normal" damage rate everyone can get a rank quite good. The ranks are calculated from "ability" and "sense" (as the former devs called it). It does not show any ability to one-hit kill a monster. The less hits you need to kill a monster the less rank you will get.

 

However, also 2 invokers can easily get a rank. One invoker in front of the monsters one jumps to the back of the monsters. "BackAttack" increases the rank very fast.  (I can make a video playing in a party of 2 invokers getting a rank SSS with one mission map when monsters are 7~10 levels below in that map only using x-attack)

 

Always keep in mind, this game is called an MMORPG and not "how to solo a mission map in less than 30 seconds". Create parties and learn how to play without being overstacked then a rank is no problem.

 

 

As for the classes which are too weak: Most classes just need a little boost, but you shouldn't compare the classes to the Summoner, because the Summoner is just OP.

Just something to think about:

 

Invoker Diffusion Canon - 3 balls - 70% damage per ball

Summoner HelixShot - 3 balls - 140% damage per ball

 

and

 

Summoner's weapon has about twice MATK than Invoker's weapon has

 

 

 

[Agitodesu]

On the note of summoners being op, Will you consider lowering the damage of helix shot in pvp at least? They benefit from elements far more than any other class besides invokers. Maybe let summoners play with the dark knight that deals 38,000 damage crits instead of both at the same time

[Precrush]

Well I wouldn't say the main issue is stacked dmg since with x-spam you just wont get (enough) rank. For cleric at least it's really problem with low quality gear since your clear speed suffers a lot more than a stacked players from not getting to x-spam.

I don't think it's fair to leave summoners and clerics at a disadvantage because "it's an mmo and you should party". Well other classes don't have to and they do better, and that's not fair. So again I'd say it's fair because of the clear speed and damage these classes get in dungeons, but when that's balanced somewhat I see no reason to keep this disadvantage. Basically you'd be forcing people to play suboptimally in a major part of the game, which doesn't sound too fun.

Edited by Precrush, 21 September 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[Fliederduft78]

I doubt you got what Poppie was trying to say. The game sees "playing" by pressing and holding down one key not as any sort of ability. Despite the fact this playing style is completely senseless (not only in the eyes of the game btw) you can't expect to be rewarded for doing so. You have skills, use them (chain lightning does do wonders). Maybe you will need 50 seconds instead of 30 BUT you will get a rank.

 

Plus Poppie is completely right, the more damage output I have the lower my ranking will get. I am playing a bandit. I noticed this fact as I put on STR cards - you should do that as physical class, just a hint for the players that are not over stacked. Cause it does give a boost in damage and that meant in my case I needed less hits to kill the monsters. This in my case resulted in my constant SSS ranking go down to constant SS. I am not stacked, so the impact of the damage increase is not as bad as for the stacked players here. But even me unstacked player noticed the rank thing. Maybe take off one of your rings for f1 farming, you will need more hits to kill the monsters and this means your rank will increase. Yes it will take a little longer but maybe it's worth it. Or do the mission map with a level 1 weapon like many do it already to get a rank. Why this works? Simple - you need more hits to kill monsters with a level 1 weapon.

(for all the bandits out there with a ranking problem, use Rolling Stinger it does help lots)

 

Yes, overstacking yourselves is a problem when trying to get a rank - but sadly this is a self made problem based on the poor decisions made by the former devs. I do not blame you guys for stacking, I do blame the former devs for only seeing their "fllling wallets" when they implemented this possibilty. Because at the end it were the former devs who totally unbalanced the entire game and killed it's classes because money was all they saw.

Edited by Fliederduft78, 20 September 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[Agitodesu]

This may be the odd comment, but whenever I pve, with a +20 pos with solars or without, I manage to get an SSS without fail regardless of killing them in one blow since I do have near 40% cr with 600% cd.

I don't see an issue with pve for any players rather than a minor inconvenience due to the classes skills/mechanics. I play with and without op gear, high level and low level with all classes in pve more than pvp. I just feel it is just a strong inconvenience to some players who compare the x spamming classes with a different class that specialize in some parts of the game due to skills/mechanics. If you enjoy the class and respect for what it is, it wouldn't be a problem.

 

Imagine if you only played invoker and didn't know of any other class. You'd figure that using skills to rank up would be the "normal" and the mechanics is not just hold 1 button to clear.

[Precrush]

That's why I said for cleric, that's what happens with all classes but it's not the issue here. And he wasn't talking about pressing one button, he was just talking about the one shotting which causes this rank decrease on high dmg.

Giving proper rank for x-spam would be the thing to change if we wanted a fair system (once classes do ~equal damage). You could say it's easy to x-spam but that would imply killing with skills isn't.

[Popcorn]

Before this goes out of hands: We won't "fix" the calculation for the ranks in mission maps, because there is nothing to fix,

 

Playing invokers myself since I started to play about 7 years ago I have a good advise to everyone who does not get a rank with X-Spam classes:

Learn how to play and learn how to use skills. Sometimes I feel that some people would like to enter the mission map, immediately get into the boss room, wait 2 seconds and get rewards for doing nothing. I always ask myself: Why do they play? Maybe I forget that the "playing" part might only be a peeve for them because they need to kill mobs before they get rewards.

[Precrush]

I also play a cleric and can solo fine enough for my needs, but I can also acknowledge that it's harder than the other classes. And I know for a fact that this confuses new players too when they try to play this class, they see pretty soon that x-spam is what clerics are about only to realise that's not viable here. If classes are balanced in pve, what's the reason not to give rank for x-spam? There's other places where to force people to "learn to play the game" if that's what we are after. It's not like it's hard to do f1 on these classes, it's just subotimal and not as fun. After all it's a pretty easy game we are talking about here.

[Popcorn]

 what's the reason not to give rank for x-spam?

 

Don't you get it? I get rank when x-spamming. Also classes have skills to be used. Even if they have an X-Attack.

I know skills look good, but they're not only there to look good, they're there to be used.

Case closed.

[Agitodesu]

I agree.

Edited by Agitodesu, 21 September 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[5143121023173906760]

The fact that people don't like using skills even though most of us think that X-Spam is boring is kinda bugging me.

And honnestly, many of us switched from a certain class to a X-Spam class just so dungeons become easier for them. So why wouldn't it be opposite way when it comes to gold farming ?
Anyways, there are already many messages above that explains that X-Spammer can farm F1 without any difficulty.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 21 September 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[Popcorn]

Popcorn's Miracles Episode 1:

How to get an SSS-Rank (119/120) with a Lvl. 76 Invoker in only one mission map using Skills

 

https://youtu.be/GV-xB0vyw9w

 

+15 [Artifact] Zauharant Staff

+4 [Advanced] Secmathian Set Parts

No F6 Rings

 

So you can call me not being "overstacked".

[Agitodesu]

That balloon you have is clearly pay to win.

 

Anyways it's obvious the clear time is slow, but possible to get an SSS, however find a party for an F1 in DV or Kryos is almost guaranteed.