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Upcoming Refine Event Discussion Thread 9-13


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#1 Campitor

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 08:23 AM

300 items were involved in testing.

 

137 items broke

 

72 accounts were involved in testing.

 

20484 refine attempts were made last night.

 

 

2 times items reached/lost levels to level 19 (All of them were REDACTED)

8 times items reached/lost levels to level 18 (All of them were REDACTED)

13 times items reached/lost levels to level 17 (10 of them were REDACTED)

56 times items reached/lost levels to level 16 (24 of them were REDACTED)

189 times items reached/lost levels to level 15

697 times items reached/lost levels to level 14

1151 times items reached/lost levels to level 13

2494 times items reached/lost levels to level 12

8246 times items reached/lost levels to level 11

6376 times items reached/lost levels to level 10

58 times items reached/lost levels to level 9

69 times items reached/lost levels to level 8

105 times items reached/lost levels to level 7

135 times items reached/lost levels to level 6

165 times items reached/lost levels to level 5

175 times items reached level 4

175 times items reached level 3

175 times items reached level 2

176 times items reached level 1

 

 

 

 

1st conclusion. REDACTED has an amazing amount of luck... there is no other way to express that as long as he doesn't participate in the event no level 20 items will be made. His initial push to 18 was all successes and that was just strange to see.

 

 

40 distinct items reached level 15

12 distinct items reached level 16

5 distinct items reached level 17

1 distinct item reached level 18

 

 

Keep in mind that these numbers represent an unlimited supply of Ore and Zeny with which to refine. In reality players are for more likely to stop sooner rather than push higher.

 

Judging from the logs the event makes +12 a possibility for more users. Beyond that is luck. It took 2.5% of all the refines done last night for an item to touch level 19 and that was sheer random chance.

 

 

Discussion Points:

What are your concerns after viewing the data? I intend to meet with the studio before the event goes live next week. Where I will ask the clear and concise concerns the community shares here.

 

Stated Concerns to raise with the studio.

Spoiler

 


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#2 Diskence

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:09 AM

I intend to meet with the studio before the event goes live next week. Where I will ask the clear and concise concerns the community shares here.

 

So the event is pushed back to next week?


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#3 KamiKali

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:10 AM

Again, these are the calculated averages:

 

These are averages for a Level 4 Weapon/ Armor:

+10 -> +13 - 168 Ores - 2,345 KP

+10 -> +14 - 896 Ores - 12,539 KP

+10 -> +15 - 5,028 Ores - 70,396 KP

+10 -> +16 - 28,453 Ores - 398,351 KP

+10 -> +17 - 172,359 Ores - 2,413,031 KP

+10 -> +18 - 1,056,358 Ores - 14,789,022 KP

+10 -> +19 - 9,012,363 Ores - 126,173,077 KP

+10 -> +20 - 80,616,408 Ores  - 1,128,629,710 KP (~10,000,000 dollars)

 

For Level 3 Weapon:

+10 -> +13 - 33 Ores

+10 -> +14 - 89 Ores

+10 -> +15 - 260 Ores

+10 -> +16 - 776 Ores

+10 -> +17 - 2,845 Ores

+10 -> +18 - 11,126 Ores

+10 -> +19 - 58,058 Ores

+10 -> +20 - 324,014 Ores

 

The screenshots posted in the other thread, most of the +15s were from the safe to +14 NPC). All these naysayers really need to stop.

 

I'll edit it to include amount of KP spent and stuff in a bit.

 

Nonstatistically speaking, a concern or lackthereof, almost all the suras in my guild, including the accounts we lend out have +13 KVM Maces. The push to +14 won't be that bad. I have fought people with +14 kvms, and honestly, it's not that special.

I do propose to lift the reduction cap of the Cat Ear Beret, Red Pom Band, and Immune Sheild other reduction caps in this game to slightly alleviate the increased damage cap that this will create.

 

I've been against the Unfrozen Shadow Sets (still am), and MVP Shadow sets, but this is an event I'm looking forward to! c:

 

My personal results with 5k ores on a level 4 Weapon (aka 75,000 KP)

 

+14'd 10 times (includes downgrades)

+15 6 times (includes downgrades)

+16 2 times (includes downgrades)

+17 2 times (includes downgrades)

+18 1 time


Edited by KamiKali, 13 September 2016 - 01:59 PM.

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#4 Campitor

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:11 AM

So the event is pushed back to next week?

The refine portion was always scheduled to start on 9/22

The sale portion starts this week.


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#5 Diskence

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:17 AM

Why do I have a feeling you guys are going to put in enriched for this week and then this refine event for next?


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#6 Kusanagisama

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:22 AM

[...]

2 times items reached/lost levels to level 19 (All of them were REDACTED)

8 times items reached/lost levels to level 18 (All of them were REDACTED)

13 times items reached/lost levels to level 17 (10 of them were REDACTED)

56 times items reached/lost levels to level 16 (24 of them were REDACTED)

 

[...]

 

1st conclusion. REDACTED has an amazing amount of luck... there is no other way to express that as long as he doesn't participate in the event no level 20 items will be made. His initial push to 18 was all successes and that was just strange to see.

2nd conclusion: Ashuckel ("REDACTED") should be banned from this event.  :p_laugh:

 

I do propose to lift the reduction cap of the Cat Ear Beret, Red Pom Band, and Immune Sheild other reduction caps in this game to slightly alleviate the increased damage cap that this will create.

 

I agree, as long as it is possible to do this without affecting the damage increment given by the refinement rate of these items?


Edited by Kusanagisama, 13 September 2016 - 09:25 AM.

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#7 Undying

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:23 AM

Please put enriched event in prior. It will allow people (of all levels in the game) to participate more fairly and evenly.
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#8 Casval17

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:26 AM

Why do I have a feeling you guys are going to put in enriched for this week and then this refine event for next?

 

+1

I do have the same premonition too :p_laugh:


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#9 WarlockFier

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:28 AM

I'm going to question how do you guys expect new guilds to rise, to fight against these guilds with +13s and +14s and even lend them out. My friends and I have been discussing about how to encourage new players to play the game, to participate in WOE, and it's been difficult when you slap them with these sort of high entry barriers.

 

697 times items reached/lost levels to level 14

1151 times items reached/lost levels to level 13

 

Those numbers are still extremely high for a server with 2k populations, and we are talking about how +13 and +14 are extremely painful in WOE that further makes 'one shot fest' a thing. Good luck to whoever is still in it.

 

Again if you guys are looking to increase monetization, you seriously need to look at focusing on bringing in new players and creating boxes/ kafra packages that caters to them. :u When RO went on Steam, it was one of the best times having so many new players on board again.

 

I think I'm just talking into the void here, so I'm out. I will just watch how this unfold since I believe you guys are going to go ahead with it anyways... :y gg gl hf happy milking.


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#10 Myzery

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:32 AM

The Surapocalypse is about to begin.


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#11 Diskence

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:33 AM

At this point I just want to know what the lucky boxes will be tomorrow. Please add in those golden super kawaii wings.


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#12 Spoon

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:37 AM

I do propose to lift the reduction cap of the Cat Ear Beret, Red Pom Band, and Immune Sheild other reduction caps in this game to slightly alleviate the increased damage cap that this will create.

If u have to recommend items be tweaked to make up for this event, u are basically admitting its a broken idea and shouldnt be done at all, in my opinion atleast

Edited by Spoon, 13 September 2016 - 09:37 AM.

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#13 KamiKali

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:42 AM

If u have to recommend items be tweaked to make up for this event, u are basically admitting its a broken idea and shouldnt be done at all, in my opinion atleast

 

I've never agreed with the cap in the first place. But it wasn't worth the +13 back then. Now =13/14 is quite viable to make, so why not lift it?


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#14 Campitor

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:43 AM

I'm going to question how do you guys expect new guilds to rise, to fight against these guilds with +13s and +14s and even lend them out. My friends and I have been discussing about how to encourage new players to play the game, to participate in WOE, and it's been difficult when you slap them with these sort of high entry barriers.

 

697 times items reached/lost levels to level 14

1151 times items reached/lost levels to level 13

 

Those numbers are still extremely high for a server with 2k populations, and we are talking about how +13 and +14 are extremely painful in WOE that further makes 'one shot fest' a thing. Good luck to whoever is still in it.

 

Again if you guys are looking to increase monetization, you seriously need to look at focusing on bringing in new players and creating boxes/ kafra packages that caters to them. :u When RO went on Steam, it was one of the best times having so many new players on board again.

 

I think I'm just talking into the void here, so I'm out. I will just watch how this unfold since I believe you guys are going to go ahead with it anyways... :y gg gl hf happy milking.

I am sorry you feel that way. I will make sure that the question you opened with is asked of the studio.


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#15 Myzery

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:45 AM

If u have to recommend items be tweaked to make up for this event, u are basically admitting its a broken idea and shouldnt be done at all, in my opinion atleast

 

The potential for power creep has always been there.
Raising the refine limit would give people more to strive for, but it would also make people feel that it's mandatory to compete.

Complete double edged sword.


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#16 Spoon

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:47 AM

I've never agreed with the cap in the first place. But it wasn't worth the +13 back then. Now =13/14 is quite viable to make, so why not lift it?

Or can find a better solution than changing items already in place, cuz think about it, that is still hurting people who may come into the game or cannot participate in the event right now. By raising the cap, you created an even LARGER gap, which is already going to increase due to this event between vets and noobs. Because now not only has the damage cap essentially increased, but now those same ppl also get a defense increase, and where does that leave noobie mc noobface. Essentially way farther behind than before


Edit: I would like to point out that I don't woe, this event prolly will have little effect on me except,maybe in mvping, but, I don't want to see the game get any more broken and die. I'm trying to see this from both sides, but I just can't see the pros out weighing the cons

Edited by Spoon, 13 September 2016 - 09:52 AM.

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#17 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:50 AM

meh so if some one has 15k bradiums /craniums

they would be doing well in this event right? well then it seems my time has come to go all out in a bang. I should just charge people to upgrade items and burn throw all my bradiums and craniums


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#18 Diskence

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:53 AM

If u have to recommend items be tweaked to make up for this event, u are basically admitting its a broken idea and shouldnt be done at all, in my opinion atleast

 

I do agree with your point and WarlockFier's points but the game does need to progress itself. It's like any other MMO and smart phone games. When the end game content hits a ceiling and players are sitting there doing nothing (aka sitting in prontera looking cute with cute headgears) instead of playing the game you have a problem.

 

The only endgame content right now is:

1. Make new character.

2. WoE.

3. Hunt MVPs.

4. Try and get better gears for all of the above.

 

And when players who are extremely into the game with all the characters, MVPs and at a upgrade peak, you need to give them something to do (Seriously the game has been out for 12 years). I personally don't need anything from the game itself to be honest except for a Thanatos Card (which I just spam Bloody Branches and Central Lab and pray to RNGesus[Who is apparently Ash right now or REDACTED]). I have every single god item, my gears are all ~+12 for the character I play. Only option I have left is make a bunch of new characters that I will most likely never play. 
 

You will probably argue that this isn't the right way of giving out end game content and this will widen the gap of new players to veterans to which I also agree with. Then what's the point of everything I said above? To make myself feel better and my anus less sore when I think about how many people might stop playing. 


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#19 Toxn

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:54 AM

Remember how there is requirement for WoE that is so high, it's not feasible for any new players or any new guilds to compete with? Thanks for having an event that strengthens that fact.

It doesn't affect just WoE, but all forms of competition or standard expectations. But WoE is the biggest to suffer from it.

You increase the amount of +14 KVMs and other gears while the established and current population can make use of it, and you decay any potential future for growth. You increase the reduction cap for things like CEB/RPB, you only make it worse for the potential future who didn't benefit off this event.

 

You throw this event in too often and you over saturate and destroy the server regardless.

 

Ultimately it's your move, just be aware the more times you pull events like this, the more you hurt yourself in the long run. If you wanted to stabilize first: work on bringing new players into the game, and trying to balance what already exists before you decide to burn everything down. But I don't know how many times that has to be said this year before anything is actually done about it.


Edited by Toxn, 13 September 2016 - 09:57 AM.

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#20 Spoon

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:56 AM

I do agree with your point and WarlockFier's points but the game does need to progress itself. It's like any other MMO and smart phone games. When the end game content hits a ceiling and players are sitting there doing nothing (aka sitting in prontera looking cute with cute headgears) instead of playing the game you have a problem.

The only endgame content right now is:
1. Make new character.
2. WoE.
3. Hunt MVPs.
4. Try and get better gears for all of the above.

And when players who are extremely into the game with all the characters, MVPs and at a upgrade peak, you need to give them something to do (Seriously the game has been out for 12 years). I personally don't need anything from the game itself to be honest except for a Thanatos Card (which I just spam Bloody Branches and Central Lab and pray to RNGesus[Who is apparently Ash right now or REDACTED]). I have every single god item, my gears are all ~+12 for the character I play. Only option I have left is make a bunch of new characters that I will most likely never play.

You will probably argue that this isn't the right way of giving out end game content and this will widen the gap of new players to veterans to which I also agree with. Then what's the point of everything I said above? To make myself feel better and my anus less sore when I think about how many people might stop playing.


i don't disagree with you, and I'm not saying I know a better way, but I feel that this event just is not the answer.
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#21 longshoe

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:03 AM

LOOKS LIKE THERE IS GONNA BE ALOT OF +14 KVMS

Hope this will add more people to the woe zone~ :rice:

 

I mean think the other way, noobs dont have that much experience than old player who P2w for getin +12~14gears.

This event will help them get better gears to compet with OLD BIG GUILDS~


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#22 bunnyband

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:03 AM

I am sorry you feel that way. I will make sure that the question you opened with is asked of the studio.

I dont think she is the only one that feel  that way. the majority feel that way too. you guys are just ignorant and want to make money out of it. its a short term benefit for WP. how bout for "once" you guys think about the long term benefit for the server instead of keep destroying it.


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#23 bunnyband

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:06 AM

Remember how there is requirement for WoE that is so high, it's not feasible for any new players or any new guilds to compete with? Thanks for having an event that strengthens that fact.

It doesn't affect just WoE, but all forms of competition or standard expectations. But WoE is the biggest to suffer from it.

You increase the amount of +14 KVMs and other gears while the established and current population can make use of it, and you decay any potential future for growth. You increase the reduction cap for things like CEB/RPB, you only make it worse for the potential future who didn't benefit off this event.Good luck new players, u wont be able to kill no more in woe and good luck being one shot.

 

You throw this event in too often and you over saturate and destroy the server regardless.

 

Ultimately it's your move, just be aware the more times you pull events like this, the more you hurt yourself in the long run. If you wanted to stabilize first: work on bringing new players into the game, and trying to balance what already exists before you decide to burn everything down. But I don't know how many times that has to be said this year before anything is actually done about it.


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#24 Diskence

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:07 AM

i don't disagree with you, and I'm not saying I know a better way, but I feel that this event just is not the answer.

 

It probably isn't but well, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

You increase the amount of +14 KVMs and other gears while the established and current population can make use of it, and you decay any potential future for growth. You increase the reduction cap for things like CEB/RPB, you only make it worse for the potential future who didn't benefit off this event.

 

Already happened with Unfrozen Shadow Set which never should have made it into iRO. The advantage of people with Unfrozen and able to wear anything they want to the newcomers who wasn't there for it and is locked to Unfrozen is a gigantic difference. 


Edited by Diskence, 13 September 2016 - 10:08 AM.

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#25 Spoon

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 10:09 AM

LOOKS LIKE THERE IS GONNA BE ALOT OF +14 KVMS
Hope this will add more people to the woe zone~ :rice:

I mean think the other way, noobs dont have that much experience than old player who P2w for getin +12~14gears.
This event will help them get better gears to compet with OLD BIG GUILDS~

That's assuming the noobs, heck not just noobs, even the casual middle class have the items upgraded to participate in
the event, the money to buy kp, or the zeny to participate in a way that it will benefit them. And those big guilds have enough zeny to over upgrade a majority of their gear so even if that noob gets his first +14, now he's competing against an army,of +15-17

Edited by Spoon, 13 September 2016 - 10:09 AM.

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