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Suggestion : Fixing Emporia War's missions


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#1 Onyzer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:22 AM

Hi everyone !

Last saturday was the third time I applied to Emporia War with my guild.
Participating to this tournament has always been like a final goal in this game for me. And I am really disappointed since it is actually a place where people are "abusing" the system to higher their chance to win. I think this is sad that guilds in this tournament have to use some strategies like :

 

- Using only characters of the same class : I think everyone with a decent gear should be able to fight for his guild not regarding the class. Because now, people are creating new characters (most of the time Summoner) ONLY for Emporia War. Because having only one class prevent enemies to get feasible missions.

 

- Reloging when they don't have missions they can do : This is related to the first point, missions system in Emporia HAS TO be fixed ! This is really annoying when you're respecting the rules and others are just reloging to get new missions everytime.

So here is my suggestion :
I think fixing the useless missions we can get in EW is something that has to be done. This way reloging to get new missions will be useless. And using only one class won't be as annoying for the enemies as it is now if missions are all feasible.
But, if every missions are feasible I think the 100 points will be too fast to reach, so I suggest to higher the amount of point needed to be able to attack enemies' core or lower the points missions give.

Why do I think this missions system HAS TO be fixed ?
Emporia War is for a lot of player their final goal in this game. Being able to win a guild tournament should be an honor earned by hard fights against other guilds. Fixing the missions system will make Emporia War a better place where guilds can truly fight each others, not just waiting in a corner and changing zone because the mission you have at the moment is not feasible.

Thanks for considering this suggestion.

Feel free to add any other suggestion too, as WP team says : they need our feedbacks.


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#2 Yagaraschi

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:28 AM

"I think fixing the useless missions we can get in EW is something that has to be done. This way reloging to get new missions will be useless."

Might be a fix :)


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#3 Coolsam

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:36 AM

All I think would greatly improve things is to remove core-based missions. As "Attack the core" when your guild doesn't even have an attack chance is pointless and "Attack the core" when you do have it usually only helps with the 2nd 100 points which resets attack chance duration and enemy guild's points to 0 anyways.

 

Of course EW itself has more problems by itself to where fixing the mission system won't balance it. If anything it'll make it easier for top guilds to bulldoze tournaments anyways. Frequent EW winner guilds can just build the 100 points twice as fast then 100-0 the core in 30 seconds like always.

 

EW needs a rework. With several aspects fixed, missions alone won't cut it. You also need;

-Map Hopping cooldown increase

-Core/Dragon HP Increase as well as damage/attack mechanics increased and added for 1-star and 2-star dragons.

-Map design change.

-Bug fixes.

-Defense Requirement changes

Among other things people can think of.

 

Something like this is a larger-scale project that can't be balanced and fixed overnight.


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#4 FarmGoldAndElem

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:51 AM

Just fix mission, like coolsam said "attack the core" and else. Will be greatful for now. A big rework can be on "to-do list". Limit bug exploiters to get at least a fair pvp in tournament would be awesome.


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#5 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:11 AM

What about not giving them a new mission whenever someone relogs ?
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#6 Popcorn

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:30 AM

Good idea, sadly technically not possible.

However, we are fully aware of what's going on. We are thinking about possible ways to stop constant relogging.

For the time being, please make videos and if someone constantly relogs send it in.

 


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#7 Precrush

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:49 AM

Ye I guess it'd be hard to make it only give possible missions. That's not necessary tho. Like it has been said just removing some of the bad ones (like core atk) and changing some of the skill ones so they are fair among classes would go a long way. Then it's just a matter of trying to get a way from this system where basically only these missions matter. In bsq they are too weak, here they are way too powerful. That's a longer process tho, nothing to do about that on the short term. Can't make it more about fighting with island hopping and the current class balance. And adding other ways of earning points (some pve monsters?, domination style control points?) is probably not a priority now. Really emporia is, like our other pvp things, a land of wasted opportunities. Maybe someday we'll see it in a worthy from, that'd do a lot of good for the game.

 

EDIT: And relogging is another thing but that's not necessarily the fault of the mechanic.


Edited by Precrush, 19 September 2016 - 09:54 AM.

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#8 Onyzer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:53 AM

What about not giving them a new mission whenever someone relogs ?

Playing Emporia War will still be boring with unfeasible missions : running for 3 minutes when you have one.

 

Good idea, sadly technically not possible.

 

Alright, is there any hope we get a full rework of Emporia War system in the future ? With then more control on balancing it, like what you did with the elements rework.

 

By the way, here I'm suggesting about Emporia War only, but maybe a rework of the PvP in general should be something to be done. Because at the moment PvP is quite desert. I remember that in Dragonica EU the PvP was populated.


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#9 Precrush

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:55 AM

Also making the quest cycle in like 1 min instead of 3 could make that a less boring thing, they'd have to give less points tho too.


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#10 Agitodesu

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:58 AM

I wonder if limiting the number of islands to 3 would be acceptable. This is a guild war, I don't really think that 1 person should b able to solo emporia, or let that one guy hop around islands running around scott free while his team mates relog for some juicy points. I don't real y see why we need so many islands.

With an abnormally low cool down on island hopping.


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#11 Onyzer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:11 AM

Also making the quest cycle in like 1 min instead of 3 could make that a less boring thing, they'd have to give less points tho too.

 

I think stuff like that would be something good to make it better in the short term. I hope this is possible.

 

About the problem of relogers : some of them are using as an excuse that sometimes you get disconnected by the game for "abnormal client status" when using certain skills. Of course they are abusing of it by using these bugged skills when they don't have a feasible mission. This is something that is hard to deal with since this is not fair regarding the enemy guild, but still "legit" regarding the game since it is not pure reloging.


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#12 Coolsam

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:14 AM

I wonder if limiting the number of islands to 3 would be acceptable. This is a guild war, I don't really think that 1 person should b able to solo emporia, or let that one guy hop around islands running around scott free while his team mates relog for some juicy points. I don't real y see why we need so many islands.

With an abnormally low cool down on island hopping.

 

I've seen a weird incident in Emporia where the Core only existed in 2-3 of the 5 islands so some islands existed purely as battlefields whilst others had cores. It was likely a bug.


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#13 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:25 AM

Playing Emporia War will still be boring with unfeasible missions : running for 3 minutes when you have one.


My idea wasn't something that would replace the others ideas people are mentionning. But more than a quick way to fix the issue about the abuses.

Removing the attack the core mission would be neat, unless we do complete map/system modifications.

Also, 1 mission cooldown is really questionning me.
Knowing that 3rd party tools can speed up your client and seeing them overused in Breeze Run before, I'm pretty sure the same could be applied on EW. Last times I went to EW we completely lost against people that only performed one kill, though this could mostly be RNG.
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#14 Popcorn

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:00 AM

You know that MovementSpeed and AttackSpeed can't be cheated anymore regardless which tool is used?

 

In Breeze Run they usually hacked the movement speed.

 


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#15 5143121023173906760

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:14 AM

You know that MovementSpeed and AttackSpeed can't be cheated anymore regardless which tool is used?

In Breeze Run they usually hacked the movement speed.

No, you coudln't modify the movement speed in Breeze Run as the info was server-sided.
When Breeze Run was released, max mp was still client sided it was possible to display the actual max MP you had by sorting the inventory. Yet it still works you can't get more than 300 MP anymore.

Anyways, let's hope that the mission timer in EW/BSQ is also server-sided. But I have high doubts from my personal experience.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 19 September 2016 - 11:33 AM.

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#16 Popcorn

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:39 AM

You were able to modify it, because I personally did that for testing, you only had to know how to ;)

 

I will check that with the timer in EW.

 


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#17 Zackx23

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 05:10 PM

I remember that baaaaaack then when it all started with Dragon Saga/Dragonica the Guild War Tournament was different than it is now. Sadly I don't remember anything in detail because at that time I never wanted to participate in wars, but afaik the map design was different and also the position/mechanics of the dragon were different. If someone knows more about this and knows if this old Emporia War was "better" than the War right now they could tell her maybe. Maybe somewhere deep in the codes the good ol' Poppie is able to find something about these old Emporia stuff or something like that.


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#18 Onyzer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:48 PM

I remember that baaaaaack then when it all started with Dragon Saga/Dragonica the Guild War Tournament was different than it is now. Sadly I don't remember anything in detail because at that time I never wanted to participate in wars, but afaik the map design was different and also the position/mechanics of the dragon were different. If someone knows more about this and knows if this old Emporia War was "better" than the War right now they could tell her maybe. Maybe somewhere deep in the codes the good ol' Poppie is able to find something about these old Emporia stuff or something like that.

 

Found this on YouTube, maybe this is what you're talking about ?
 


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#19 Precrush

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:23 PM

There has been a few versions of emporia yes, the old map was way better but I believe it still had the bad mission and atk chance systems. I was thinking one day that maybe the best way would be that atk chance only for example doubled your damage done to core for a while. That make empo so much more tactical and the bad missions wouldn't matter much. And then give cores like 10x more hp or something. But ye map in my opinion NEEDS to be changed for this mode to reach its potential, no question about it. The ;ld one only had a few campable spots thanks to the jumper things, other than that it was good.
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#20 Coolsam

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:45 PM

For possible rework; A long while back an old player with quite some experience devised a suggestion for making EW a 1-island deal with both cores stationed behind breakable wall/gate objectives with a massive battlefield in the middle. Something like this;

 

Team 1 Core | Wall | Wall | Wall | Gate |---| Gate | Wall | Wall | Wall | Team 2 Core

 

It was interesting and I wouldn't mind brainstorming this when larger-scale EW work is done.


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#21 Onyzer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:57 PM

I like the idea of making Emporia War a more PvP-based tournament. Having only one island sounds good to me, because hopping between islands is not encouraging the people to PvP since they're afraid of giving points to enemy guild.

 

Also, having only one island and more PvP-based fights will requires teamwork and strategy in my opinion.


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#22 GhostRed

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:58 PM

For possible rework; A long while back an old player with quite some experience devised a suggestion for making EW a 1-island deal with both cores stationed behind breakable wall/gate objectives with a massive battlefield in the middle. Something like this;

 

Team 1 Core | Wall | Wall | Wall | Gate |---| Gate | Wall | Wall | Wall | Team 2 Core

 

It was interesting and I wouldn't mind brainstorming this when larger-scale EW work is done.

 

 

i am not sure about that , like the X spam champ going to benefit  from this a lot . don't forget that some champ can deal 10m dmg in 10 sec

 

 

 

Edit : the idea it self good , but how they going to make it work will take much time and thinking.  i would like to see kill point or atk/def point . something that will make the idea not  the most dmg win,


Edited by GhostRed, 19 September 2016 - 10:03 PM.

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#23 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:25 AM

Some fix to the quests could also be if you had like 10 people on your team and 3 people in the other team the score splits by the amount of players in the team and all quests are like 10 points, so if the team with 10 people completes a quest they gain 1 point and if the team with 3 people completes a quest they gain 3 points. This way the team with most players will have a small advantage I know, But that just makes it easier to have fun with a large amount of players instead of trying to be like "OMG look I can 1v10 this guild!". Instead it should be more fun and if you bring more people and make the time you need to switch maps longer then you need to work as a team to not get Perma stunned while in that room while still helping out those who are perma stunned in your team. Maybe this can be fixed a bit more like if you're solo you get 8 points instead of 10 etc etc. But one main thing as well is to try to get rid of useless quests. They will always be there if you have the "Attack this class" missions cause the only one with that class might log out when you get it and then you'll have to wait. But this is just something to start the discussion again and to get my opinion in the mix. 

Thanks for reading!
Regards,
Yuumikitsu


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#24 Onyzer

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 11:21 PM

Some fix to the quests could also be if you had like 10 people on your team and 3 people in the other team the score splits by the amount of players in the team and all quests are like 10 points, so if the team with 10 people completes a quest they gain 1 point and if the team with 3 people completes a quest they gain 3 points. This way the team with most players will have a small advantage I know, But that just makes it easier to have fun with a large amount of players instead of trying to be like "OMG look I can 1v10 this guild!". Instead it should be more fun and if you bring more people and make the time you need to switch maps longer then you need to work as a team to not get Perma stunned while in that room while still helping out those who are perma stunned in your team. Maybe this can be fixed a bit more like if you're solo you get 8 points instead of 10 etc etc. But one main thing as well is to try to get rid of useless quests. They will always be there if you have the "Attack this class" missions cause the only one with that class might log out when you get it and then you'll have to wait. But this is just something to start the discussion again and to get my opinion in the mix. 

Thanks for reading!
Regards,
Yuumikitsu

 

Nice suggestion for the points calculation ! I think it's not a bad idea since it will balance the match about points earned, and if the island hopping's cooldown is increased as you said teamwork will be needed and then larger guilds will still have an advantage, which seems pretty normal.

 

Since my question has not been answered yet i'll re-ask it : Is there any hope we get a complete rework of EW in the future ? Or this will be only little fixes from times to times ?
 


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#25 ohsnap

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:59 AM

In the past, guilds got disbanded and leaders got banned after reports were filed for relogging for better missions. I don't expect the new guilds going into EW and knowing about these rules because they use to be reinforce by old mods when it was just an NA server. These rules are pinned on the forum threads btw. I'd like to see these rules get reinforced again to deteriorate these guilds from abusing relogging. Winning EW is about rng with missions and removing this aspect while other guilds are waiting for timers for new missions is pure abuse.


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