25 replies to this topic

[MilkyThief]

I'm not trying to kick the hornets nest, I really am not. But I don't understand this death. 

 

 

So today was the 5v5 tourney, and during the fights, there was a death that I can't follow. So I am looking for an answer.

 

 

So as you can see, the tiger cannon was done on the chaser sura then the chaser guarded the splash, the Sura took 30% damage from the tiger cannon and lived. What killed him after? Reflect gear? Valk Mant? High Orc Card? Thorny Buckler? Sheep hat? If the Sura next to the chaser was wearing reflect gears, wouldn't he die too from the damage....?

 

I am just confused. Whats done is done and I really am not looking for drama or anything, I just wanna understand this death for future fights. Thanks.

 

I dunno man, I don't like Suras, they are too OP....

 

 

Edited by MilkyThief, 30 September 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[PervySageMarty]

Could have been an instantcast Cresent Elbow.

[MilkyThief]

Could have been an instantcast Cresent Elbow.

 

 

Instacast or not, it would say Cresent Elbow above his head.

[PervySageMarty]

Instacast or not, it would say Cresent Elbow above his head.

 

I dunno I have never seen the skill actually work before, so maybe it doesnt say it over the head if it actually successfully activated or something. I mean Genetics with instantcast can use Demonic Fire+Fire Expansion without any skill name over the head whatsoever.

 

Might need to get an experienced Sura here to see this.

[Ashuckel]

the TC was targeted on the Sura tho, the Chaser guarded the splash. 

Not seeing their HPs makes it hard to deduce anything. You can't know how close to death the targeted sura was, and how much HP the TC caster sura had when he TCed, if the hp wasnt full + the 30% drain from TC + some possible reflect could indeed have killed him. But i dunno any strong enough reflect to do that that's not Orc Lord card. 
I don't know how Crescent Elbow behaves to say it was that.

[mildcontempt]

I think in the future it'd be a good idea to have one of the 'camera operators' be in the parties to have a monitor of the HP (which they can hide on stream, but still see for any play-by-plays later.)

[MilkyThief]

My issue isn't that the sura didn't die, I want to know where the extra 19k damage could come from. Valk Mant is out because Sura is an Acolyte class.... 

 

I'm over sharing here, but after testing I can confirm that the new Mad Bunny Shield does work in the PVP room.....  I dunno if that custom map is the same....

 

The bunny shield would have shown its sprite though so I do not think that was the case.

 

I dunno. It is hard to discuss this thing without it seeming like a callout. 

Edited by MilkyThief, 30 September 2016 - 06:35 PM.

[PervySageMarty]

At the end of the day did it truely matter how he died? He self destructed to give you guys a win. It was an honorable thing ti do. Hats off to you.

[Jerbear]

A ton of possibilities are in play here.

 

It's likely a death caused by reflect from both the Sura and Shadow Chaser. I don't know what gears were in play, but with Mad Bunnies all over the place, that's 20% reflect right there if both of them are wearing it. A Valk Mant in addition on the Chaser and we're talking pretty hefty reflect damage.

 

It should be noted that all card/gear reflect properties will reflect back to the original attacker even through a guard. You could survive a Guillotine Fist with a guard and theoretically reflect enough damage to kill your attacker without even doing anything.

 

It also does not matter who the Sura targets for Tiger Cannon. If you're dealing damage to any target, should said target have the ability to reflect damage, you will take that percentage of damage from each individual instance of reflect present.

 

The Shadow Chaser could also copy Shield Spell and use level 1 which enables reflect. That will also beef up the damage returned considerably.

[ShoLin]

A ton of possibilities are in play here.

 

It's likely a death caused by reflect from both the Sura and Shadow Chaser. I don't know what gears were in play, but with Mad Bunnies all over the place, that's 20% reflect right there if both of them are wearing it. A Valk Mant in addition on the Chaser and we're talking pretty hefty reflect damage.

 

It should be noted that all card/gear reflect properties will reflect back to the original attacker even through a guard. You could survive a Guillotine Fist with a guard and theoretically reflect enough damage to kill your attacker without even doing anything.

 

It also does not matter who the Sura targets for Tiger Cannon. If you're dealing damage to any target, should said target have the ability to reflect damage, you will take that percentage of damage from each individual instance of reflect present.

 

The Shadow Chaser could also copy Shield Spell and use level 1 which enables reflect. That will also beef up the damage returned considerably.

 

Mad bunny doesn't work in pvp/woe
 

[Undying]

Mad bunny was successfully disabled, 100%. Same thing with gods/mvps. The last testing was done like an hour before the tournament so that we knew 100% that everything was working as intended after maintenance. 

Edited by Undying, 30 September 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Undying]

Short story, I killed the Sura via around 150% reflect.

 

Long story, we are not allowed to use characters who have GM hide abilities due to a separate volunteer abusing it and ruining it for all volunteers/event runners (note: that is the max I can discuss that). Instead we have to use hide or stealth (hide is slower then stealth) along with GM shields. I never knew this, but I guess the GM shields have ~150% reflect which I just found out. I tried to stay out of the way the best I could, as did Xellie, but I know I got caught in a CC once and judging from the audio in the clip that must have been the time. Due to a past "thing" that happened, Xellie and I get gimped characters that have limitations/flaws instead of being able to use GM hide characters. 

 

Milky, for you, your guild, and your team I am very sorry. I'll have them put 1st place prizes onto your characters as well as some sort of compensation. If there is anybody to burn at the stake for this witch hunt, its me. 

[MilkyThief]

There is nobody to burn, -_- happens. Thank you for clearing it up. I had no idea that the GM shield did that, it has no description.

We all had fun, so thank you for hosting and solving the mystery.

[mildcontempt]

Hahahaaaaaa, legitimately funny ending ;DDD

 

EDIT: Mad bunny's reflect, crit, and atk boosts all definitely work in PVP -- tested it literally just now. Phen effect too. 

Edited by mildcontempt, 30 September 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[Miyamisuu]

[ChakriGuard]

You are playing a SC! As OP as Sura! Damn OP players hahaha

 

Thanks for the video ^_^

 

The case is solved? I was clueless for a long time as well until I came back to read posts hahaha

Edited by ChakriGuard, 30 September 2016 - 08:22 PM.

[MilkyThief]

You are playing a SC! As OP as Sura! Damn OP players hahaha

Thanks for the video ^_^

I agree with you, Chasers and Suras are OP. But you should expect the bias from a SC main.

[Jerbear]

Short story, I killed the Sura via around 150% reflect.

 

Long story, we are not allowed to use characters who have GM hide abilities due to a separate volunteer abusing it and ruining it for all volunteers/event runners (note: that is the max I can discuss that). Instead we have to use hide or stealth (hide is slower then stealth) along with GM shields. I never knew this, but I guess the GM shields have ~150% reflect which I just found out. I tried to stay out of the way the best I could, as did Xellie, but I know I got caught in a CC once and judging from the audio in the clip that must have been the time. Due to a past "thing" that happened, Xellie and I get gimped characters that have limitations/flaws instead of being able to use GM hide characters. 

 

Milky, for you, your guild, and your team I am very sorry. I'll have them put 1st place prizes onto your characters as well as some sort of compensation. If there is anybody to burn at the stake for this witch hunt, its me. 

 

You're not within range of that Tiger Cannon, though. Unless you were horrifically sprite lagged.

 

Even then, you're currently in hide and cannot be touched by Tiger Cannon's splash.

[Undying]

You're not within range of that Tiger Cannon, though. Unless you were horrifically sprite lagged.

 

Even then, you're currently in hide and cannot be touched by Tiger Cannon's splash.

 

I'm not the camera person, that's Xellie's PoV . I was in stealth because its faster to move compared to hide. If you look at like 0:12-0:13 I believe I would have been 1 cell left or 1 cell left+1 cell down from Hawaiian Punch in stealth. There was only 1 time I got caught out via CC and that was it :X /swt.

[Jerbear]

Oooh, gotcha gotcha.

 

Yeah, that'll do it then. Even if you're not eating damage, that reflect is going back with a vengeance.

 

Edit: Let me clarify that--even if you're not supposed to eat damage, Tiger Cannon's splash doesn't care. It does fixed damage to every single thing caught in the blast and completely ignores any reductions you do/don't have. If the TC did enough damage to the Sura, you would have actually died even with the GM Shield.

Edited by Jerbear, 30 September 2016 - 08:55 PM.

[Undying]

Yes and its some crazy high reflect number, much higher then 100%.

 

Luckily it was during a match in the round robin when both teams were guaranteed a spot in the finals, as opposed to the finals. However, the momentum swing and future tactics could have been drastically impacted/changed by a mistake by me. Regardless, I am very sorry to you guys and will make sure your compensated. 

[KriticalAssassin]

Lol, some of the things in the match were confusing. Also, one of our cameramen forgot to use a quve candy in one of the last rounds, I was wearing my maya p and saw a sc and freaked out then was like "oh wait, camera man"

[QuantumGemerald]

I was watching this on twitch and I saw several instances of interference from the Undying and Xellie. Most were probably inconsequential but still, if you are going to hold these tournaments you gotta be more careful.

[Xellie]

I think the most impact interference from my side was probably the EVs. I want to say we'll keep out of the way 100% but it's just not possible. I did rewatch milkys video hoping I didn't reflect the sura and checked my hp. It didn't occur to me that undying did it hahawhutanoob.

 

Most of the time spent operating the camera is a mental challenge of anticipating how not to get in the way and get the best view, I have to avoid almost all ground skills - SW, Pnuema, Vines, etc as well as attempting to anticipate them and make sure the character isn't on a tile that someone will stand on (this is why I generally don't commentate - it's a huge shift in focus). Anyway I habitually  use stealth to watch, but for these matches I was using hide because of ground skills and AoE.

 

Don't feel bad to call out at the time if something like that happens. Neither of us are going to take offense to it. We'd rather re-run a match than feel guilty after the fact.

[Undying]

I was watching this on twitch and I saw several instances of interference from the Undying and Xellie. Most were probably inconsequential but still, if you are going to hold these tournaments you gotta be more careful.

Agreed. Unless we have GM hide there is no way to make it impossible to interfere. We try to be careful, but there is only so much that we can do.