54 replies to this topic

[Demeris]

There are two things that is making leveling difficult and annoying for players: XP Penalty and not being able to share in a party.

XP Penalty:

For those that don't know here's what it does http://irowiki.org/wiki/Experience

That's 40% of the EXP for monsters if you're 16 below the monster level. While if you're only 15 below the monster level you get 115%....

Let me get this right, if you're just 1 level away from hitting the range, you lose out on a difference of 75% bonus in exp. How does that even make sense?

And apparently GMs wanted to fix some of the issues. Why ask for feedback if you're not going to follow through with it? https://forums.warpp...topic=36439&st=

 

I firmly believe that the penalty to killing a higher level monster removes the reason why people go out and explore RO. I remember when Renewal came out, my sniper back in pre-renewal could solo Nameless Island 2 just fine. Renewal happened and I went there with a friend to start leveling. I saw that I was getting much less then what the database was showing. It was all because of the level difference. Why am I punished for being able to kill a monster that I can kill just fine with proper setup? I remember this was the reason why I quit/took a break from RO for 2 years. My way of leveling didn't work anymore and I didn't want to bother wasting time to go back and kill stings and raydrics. I am sure that any old player that attempts to come back will always go back to old leveling ways that they can remember. It's unfortunate that XP Penalty doesn't benefit the server in anyway since sometimes the mobs in Turn Ins are above what you start at in a each new tier of gramps.

I believe jRO have already removed the XP Penalty because they realize the stupidity of it. So what if players level faster? At least they're playing your game.


Share Range to 25:

 

Here is one change that should've came out when 175 patch came out. I've done enough TIs to know how sad it is to be left out of a party because you don't make a certain level range. Again, why should players be punished for having a common goal and working together just to get a TI done. This will also go well with the removal of XP penalty so that a player who's in share can get the full exp as well (I'm looking at you high TI mobs).

Most importantly, this will help a lot of players between 150-175. The majority of players usually go do Bio4 to reach their max level goals. However, a lot of players I talk to have NEVER been in a share party before. So now we have this sad culture of players forming non share parties just because it is nearly impossible to make a share party with a group of random players.

This range of exp share will benefit a lot for all the TI players, with a few minor casualties (71-74 needs to go that extra step). Bio4 parties will have a higher chance at succeeding in share parties with less waste to their BM (the culture now is to turn in 1 full TI and 1 Celia count and let the BM run out). Also NCT can always have people leveling in shared parties.


So why do we still have these archaic modifiers to an already old game? I believe these things are hindering the players ability to level and a change will greatly improve the quality of life of most players... who do leveling... which is what you do a lot in RO.

Lastly, I like to see the GMs actually follow through with their change. They are asking for a lot of suggestions, and I feel this is the biggest one they need to address.

Edited by Demeris, 08 October 2016 - 05:54 AM.

[needmorezleep]

yes it should be removed the level penalty is usually a tactic used by companies to heavily cut costs in dev time and a fully done game such as ro has no business using such

[WhiteWizard0]

The OP agrees with Aco and his bio4s.

[Amongluttony]

There are two things that is making leveling difficult and annoying for players: XP Penalty and not being able to share in a party.

XP Penalty:

For those that don't know here's what it does http://irowiki.org/wiki/Experience

That's 40% of the EXP for monsters if you're 16 below the monster level. While if you're only 15 below the monster level you get 115%....

Let me get this right, if you're just 1 level away from hitting the range, you lose out on a difference of 75% bonus in exp. How does that even make sense?

And apparently GMs wanted to fix some of the issues. Why ask for feedback if you're not going to follow through with it? https://forums.warpp...topic=36439&st=

 

I firmly believe that the penalty to killing a higher level monster removes the reason why people go out and explore RO. I remember when Renewal came out, my sniper back in pre-renewal could solo Nameless Island 2 just fine. Renewal happened and I went there with a friend to start leveling. I saw that I was getting much less then what the database was showing. It was all because of the level difference. Why am I punished for being able to kill a monster that I can kill just fine with proper setup? I remember this was the reason why I quit/took a break from RO for 2 years. My way of leveling didn't work anymore and I didn't want to bother wasting time to go back and kill stings and raydrics. I am sure that any old player that attempts to come back will always go back to old leveling ways that they can remember. It's unfortunate that XP Penalty doesn't benefit the server in anyway since sometimes the mobs in Turn Ins are above what you start at in a each new tier of gramps.

I believe jRO have already removed the XP Penalty because they realize the stupidity of it. So what if players level faster? At least they're playing your game.


Share Range to 25:

 

Here is one change that should've came out when 175 patch came out. I've done enough TIs to know how sad it is to be left out of a party because you don't make a certain level range. Again, why should players be punished for having a common goal and working together just to get a TI done. This will also go well with the removal of XP penalty so that a player who's in share can get the full exp as well (I'm looking at you high TI mobs).

Most importantly, this will help a lot of players between 150-175. The majority of players usually go do Bio4 to reach their max level goals. However, a lot of players I talk to have NEVER been in a share party before. So now we have this sad culture of players forming non share parties just because it is nearly impossible to make a share party with a group of random players.

This range of exp share will benefit a lot for all the TI players, with a few minor casualties (71-74 needs to go that extra step). Bio4 parties will have a higher chance at succeeding in share parties with less waste to their BM (the culture now is to turn in 1 full TI and 1 Celia count and let the BM run out). Also NCT can always have people leveling in shared parties.


So why do we still have these archaic modifiers to an already old game? I believe these things are hindering the players ability to level and a change will greatly improve the quality of life of most players... who do leveling... which is what you do a lot in RO.

Lastly, I like to see the GMs actually follow through with their change. They are asking for a lot of suggestions, and I feel this is the biggest one they need to address.

 

1.- Gramps was and is the true reason why players dont go anymore to play outside gramps TIs.

 

2.- Im not sure right now, but as i remember jRO have a heavy way to leveling the old exp like pre-renewal but in 3rd class required high exp to level up and as i know no one wants that (thats why Gramps still here), i dont mind, but here is where the poor excuse come "i dont have time to play" "I have a life" "that way make new players stop playing".

 

3.- Remove the exp penalty must be good, but i dont think GMs will do.

[Xellie]

basically the biggest reason I won't play renewal

 

.... okay I lie. That's the second biggest reason. First is the GX sprite

[Pixvoly]

Besure to post this in Campitor's Things that bother you part two thread, list 1 and 2 are going to be sent to the studio (development team, the people who may or may not grant us our wish on this idea, but are responsible for many game changes nontheless).

[ZeroTigress]

Thing is, why did iRO say no to the drop penalty but yes to the EXP penalties? Food for thought.

[Demeris]

1.- Gramps was and is the true reason why players dont go anymore to play outside gramps TIs.

 

2.- Im not sure right now, but as i remember jRO have a heavy way to leveling the old exp like pre-renewal but in 3rd class required high exp to level up and as i know no one wants that (thats why Gramps still here), i dont mind, but here is where the poor excuse come "i dont have time to play" "I have a life" "that way make new players stop playing".

 

3.- Remove the exp penalty must be good, but i dont think GMs will do.

Gramps was created because players stopped playing their game. No one would log in to level because leveling just wasn't fun the old way (mostly do to the leveling penalty). There was no community for people to hang out and level at. Even once you reach to a point where EXP isn't as good anymore, you're essentially told to leave the area once you're too high.

Everyone should really take a look in the thread by Heimdallr. There are a lot of good reasons that people posted and even an overwhelming response of wanting the higher penalty to be removed. So why is this topic heavily ignored?

The majority of players have already adapted to the leveling penalty by just avoiding it completely and staying in TIs. The majority of players still look into gramps for leveling because it's the fastest and turn ins aren't affected by the penalty.

Edited by Demeris, 08 October 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[Toxn]

Gramps was created when Renewal literally had no content, had no gears, and had no meta. Episode 13.3 was fresh on the server when TIs were implemented.

 

Comparing then to now is a difference of day and night. Obviously people stopped playing back then, because there was practically no other way to level, but the same can't be said now.

 

TBH, I'm all for removing the penalty, but it would require redoing the entire EXP system to have it.

 

Lessening the penalty or increasing the range you aren't penalized for is fine by me without any change though.

[ROCKheir]

Would be great to have it removed or greatly reduced. My gang will surely have a better reason to play the game exploring the uncharted for faster level gains.

[Talvis]

Thing is, why did iRO say no to the drop penalty but yes to the EXP penalties? Food for thought.

 

The drop penalty was completely unworkable with the way drops are set up in RO, however, the exp penalty can work.

I personally think the way exp is set up in renewal works, monster exp just needs to be balanced better. It encourages people to actually move around instead of finding one monster and stick at it for 90% of their leveling. The upper cap could be raised a bit though.

Party share range is just fine as it is.  All raising it does is encourage people to just power level lower level charas with high level charas.

[ZeroTigress]

The drop penalty was completely unworkable with the way drops are set up in RO, however, the exp penalty can work.
I personally think the way exp is set up in renewal works, monster exp just needs to be balanced better. It encourages people to actually move around instead of finding one monster and stick at it for 90% of their leveling. The upper cap could be raised a bit though.
Party share range is just fine as it is. All raising it does is encourage people to just power level lower level charas with high level charas.

Except power leveling and sticking to certain monsters to level are still happening even with the EXP penalties. And, of course, bots are completely unaffected by any of it. So what did the penalties really change?

[PervySageMarty]

Except power leveling and sticking to certain monsters to level are still happening even with the EXP penalties. And, of course, bots are completely unaffected by any of it. So what did the penalties really change?

 

Well....for one, they made you complain how people stuck to gramps instead of going out into the wide world where theres fun and adventure.

 

Not to forget how you stress to us all that Bounty Boards are like the fastest thing to get levels from. I am not complaining.

 

It also helped lead to the strategic guide made by Fuyukikun + other people on how to optimize leveling, with bounty boards.

[Demeris]

Gramps was created when Renewal literally had no content, had no gears, and had no meta. Episode 13.3 was fresh on the server when TIs were implemented.

 

Comparing then to now is a difference of day and night. Obviously people stopped playing back then, because there was practically no other way to level, but the same can't be said now.

 

TBH, I'm all for removing the penalty, but it would require redoing the entire EXP system to have it.

 

Lessening the penalty or increasing the range you aren't penalized for is fine by me without any change though.

With sudden change in mechanics, there generally isn't any content to supplement it. That's how it was for the Transcendant or 175 patch. Players adjust to places that they are familiar to leveling at.

When renewal came out, the content and gear was already there. (Everyone had decent gear that even people now would say it's manageable. I came back wearing a full Aco set and that worked well for TIs). It was a place to level effectively that wasn't being taken care of carefully. For example, new WLs and ABs couldn't go to Necromancers anymore (NI3) because the level difference was too high. When previously, your chars were able to tank and kill just fine as an HP and HW.

XP Level Penalties kills world exploration because if you do encounter something more difficult that you can take on, you will be more than likely get punished in exp for it. So people stay to gramps or stay to boring stuff and eventually quit RO because players don't want to deal with dumb problems introduced by the game.

Edited by Demeris, 08 October 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[Jacqueli]

Except power leveling and sticking to certain monsters to level are still happening even with the EXP penalties. And, of course, bots are completely unaffected by any of it. So what did the penalties really change?

 

Bots will always be unaffected, this is the issue of a f2p format where the potential to make unlimited accounts is a thing. The flip to this is if you reverse the "f2p" to any kind of payment gate, then WP will waste time dealing with credit fraud. At this point, it's pretty safe to assume they aren't able to deal with additional problematic traffic as is.

 

The penalties however were kRO's attempt to remold RO from it's open world-esque appeal to more modernized mainstreamed "zones" (just look at the KR Gravity game page listing), I can only imagine how reviews and the pressure kRO must have gotten with the advent of hundreds of shiny and newer MMO's and Renewals attempt to bring life back into the game. Unfortunately, as much rose-tinted RO's "Golden Ages" were lined with the same problematic coding and issues that players still face today.

 

The poster Toxn said it clearly and simply about both the reality and issue to address it.

 

But honestly if iRO wants to pick it self up it needs to attempt to deviate and address issues and flaws within the game they are capable of handling. But most of all lack of content and stagnation is what kills games and RO's playerbase is much smaller and still decreasing compared to a several years ago.

 

That aside, hitting cap today is far much more easier than the original trans grind. Not even counting weekly spotlights+BMx3's. But just because that it's much easier doesn't mean the issue doesn't need to be addressed, because it does.

[Hissis]

Thing is, why did iRO say no to the drop penalty but yes to the EXP penalties? Food for thought.

 

#Bots lives matter

[BlackMeow]

remove the penalty if you killed a higher level monster. let the penalty stay for killing a lower level monster. 

[ZeroTigress]

Well....for one, they made you complain how people stuck to gramps instead of going out into the wide world where theres fun and adventure.
 
Not to forget how you stress to us all that Bounty Boards are like the fastest thing to get levels from. I am not complaining.
 
It also helped lead to the strategic guide made by Fuyukikun + other people on how to optimize leveling, with bounty boards.

I'm not the only one who complained about Gramps, but at this point I don't even care what happens to Gramps anymore. But please, do feel free to continue bringing up outdated information like most everyone else.

As for the Bounty Boards, I never said anywhere that they were a fast way to get levels. Please cite where I said as such. They have always been a means to help new players get established in the game as well as appeal to veterans who want more value to leveling out in the world maps. They were never meant to appeal to speed-levelers; the speed-leveling modifications to the system such as the warp option and NCT boards were all Oda and Campitor's ideas to change the project's direction without consulting me. It's crap like that which made working with them very frustrating and it's one of the reasons why the original project has since been left in limbo.

[ROCKheir]

remove the penalty if you killed a higher level monster. let the penalty stay for killing a lower level monster. 

Agreed.

[aentunei]

ohh ohh heres mine...

for level 1~21:

payon bounty boards 1~21..get a hunt all quest
spore/wilow/snake 150 each stop at level 21.

for level 21~50:

prontera bounty boards 21~50.. get coco and elder wilow after getting go to

geffen bounty board 21~50... get coco/ elder willow and horn after that go to

payon bounty 21~50... get horn

coco>> gef_fild02
elder willow>>prt_fild10
horn>>same map of the two monster

repeat ... until lvl 51
with zenny almost 500k for lowbies if you do this until lvl 51

then there you go orc village bounty is the next

enjoy playing it will save your lives ....

[BlackMeow]

ohh ohh heres mine...

for level 1~21:

payon bounty boards 1~21..get a hunt all quest
spore/wilow/snake 150 each stop at level 21.

for level 21~50:

prontera bounty boards 21~50.. get coco and elder wilow after getting go to

geffen bounty board 21~50... get coco/ elder willow and horn after that go to

payon bounty 21~50... get horn

coco>> gef_fild02
elder willow>>prt_fild10
horn>>same map of the two monster

repeat ... until lvl 51
with zenny almost 500k for lowbies if you do this until lvl 51

then there you go orc village bounty is the next

enjoy playing it will save your lives ....

wat

[fuyukikun]

ohh ohh heres mine...

for level 1~21:

payon bounty boards 1~21..get a hunt all quest
spore/wilow/snake 150 each stop at level 21.

for level 21~50:

prontera bounty boards 21~50.. get coco and elder wilow after getting go to

geffen bounty board 21~50... get coco/ elder willow and horn after that go to

payon bounty 21~50... get horn

coco>> gef_fild02
elder willow>>prt_fild10
horn>>same map of the two monster

repeat ... until lvl 51
with zenny almost 500k for lowbies if you do this until lvl 51

then there you go orc village bounty is the next

enjoy playing it will save your lives ....

nyan? nyan nyan nyan?

[AlSabbath]

Delete gramps,problem solved

[asperatus]

 

So what if players level faster? At least they're playing your game.

Well said. For me levelling is so painfully slow, even with gramps(lvl 140). To level up you only need to kill 10000 of particular monster yay

[ROCKheir]

And then some folks would barge in insisting that leveling up is so easy, people just don't know how to play the game, as they can reach max level in a blink of an eye. Exaggeration intended.