14 replies to this topic

[carlosrose]

I've been playing cleric for quite a few years in pretty much all the possible types there were and are. So I can say that I got quite an insight on the cleric job, so the reason why I'm making this topic would be the current play style in the game: after the last (big) patch everyone (that plays PvP) would agree that the cleric population got quite a huge increment on their numbers, whether people like the increase on their population or not is up for a debate but that's not what I wanted to discuss.

·        - Since the last skill update heals have suffered a great deal as most of them became HOT with, in my opinion, extremely LOW values compared to the damage increase as a result from the critic system and how with no sense investment what so ever you can still manage to deal a 9k critical with a single target skill with ease.

o   Suggestion: small boost into the rough healing amount or take a relook at the critical rating

·         Those "heals nerf" so to speak are in some way covered by the OVERPOWER flames 10% healing with a cool down of 2,5 seconds. With such a little mana cost allows for that INSANE spamming in PvP/PvM games. It's not difficult to end up in a game where clerics just rush under the crystal to spam their flames and cast heals on them which result easily in 25 minutes fights where no one dies in any side due to the nonstop healing coming from those flames.

o   Suggestion: nerf on the healing ability from flames, as well as an increase on the cooldown to avoid the constant 24/7 flames spamming

·        - Another concerned point would be the current "smooth" hp transition: as I mentioned before it is not difficult to find yourself in a situation with multiple characters attacking you (specially as a cleric) therefore keeping track of your own hp and the ones in your team is CRUCIAL, with the current hp bar this task is nearly close to impossible. I've encounter situations when for example a raider attacks a member of my team let's say it's a champion: I see the animation go and I can see the damage on the group hp bar being made but not on the character itself which makes it not only confusing but extremely hard to keep track of "priority healing targets".

o   Suggestion: coordinate the hp so both group hp bar and the character hp bar show the same…

·         -As for keeping track of your own HP with the current smooth transition, seeing how if you receive let's say a 3k hit followed by a 7k hit your hp will continuously drop, as in oppose to before where you had 2 hp drops that allowed for a exact HP tracking and allowed for precise use of a potion or a heal, or to know when it's time to retreat! At the moment with the huge amount of different DOT's there are, as well as the criticals,  AOE damage… All that damage combined with the smooth transition doesn’t allow for the player (despite what job they are) to keep track of the situation and results in a pretty chaotic environment.

o   Suggestion: go back to the old hp bar and drop this smooth transition nonsense.

 

We are heading into a direction where build variability doesn’t exist, we went from a broad skill tree (who doesn’t remember those hybrid mages with heals and offensive skills, or those war champion builds that could use any weapon they really wanted, or the gun/Launcher bourgeois!) to a really narrow option with pretty straight forward skill trees that most people share due to that.

 

 

We lost the option to change gears mid fight to respond to different scenarios when we couldn’t change gears mid fight: which once again resulted on most people using 1 set for everything instead of the old gear switch  to perform best at different scenarios.

[iRaphael]

 

I've been playing cleric for quite a few years in pretty much all the possible types there were and are. So I can say that I got quite an insight on the cleric job, so the reason why I'm making this topic would be the current play style in the game: after the last (big) patch everyone (that plays PvP) would agree that the cleric population got quite a huge increment on their numbers, whether people like the increase on their population or not is up for a debate but that's not what I wanted to discuss.

·        - Since the last skill update heals have suffered a great deal as most of them became HOT with, in my opinion, extremely LOW values compared to the damage increase as a result from the critic system and how with no sense investment what so ever you can still manage to deal a 9k critical with a single target skill with ease.

o   Suggestion: small boost into the rough healing amount or take a relook at the critical rating

·         Those "heals nerf" so to speak are in some way covered by the OVERPOWER flames 10% healing with a cool down of 2,5 seconds. With such a little mana cost allows for that INSANE spamming in PvP/PvM games. It's not difficult to end up in a game where clerics just rush under the crystal to spam their flames and cast heals on them which result easily in 25 minutes fights where no one dies in any side due to the nonstop healing coming from those flames.

o   Suggestion: nerf on the healing ability from flames, as well as an increase on the cooldown to avoid the constant 24/7 flames spamming

·        - Another concerned point would be the current "smooth" hp transition: as I mentioned before it is not difficult to find yourself in a situation with multiple characters attacking you (specially as a cleric) therefore keeping track of your own hp and the ones in your team is CRUCIAL, with the current hp bar this task is nearly close to impossible. I've encounter situations when for example a raider attacks a member of my team let's say it's a champion: I see the animation go and I can see the damage on the group hp bar being made but not on the character itself which makes it not only confusing but extremely hard to keep track of "priority healing targets".

o   Suggestion: coordinate the hp so both group hp bar and the character hp bar show the same…

·         -As for keeping track of your own HP with the current smooth transition, seeing how if you receive let's say a 3k hit followed by a 7k hit your hp will continuously drop, as in oppose to before where you had 2 hp drops that allowed for a exact HP tracking and allowed for precise use of a potion or a heal, or to know when it's time to retreat! At the moment with the huge amount of different DOT's there are, as well as the criticals,  AOE damage… All that damage combined with the smooth transition doesn’t allow for the player (despite what job they are) to keep track of the situation and results in a pretty chaotic environment.

o   Suggestion: go back to the old hp bar and drop this smooth transition nonsense.

 

We are heading into a direction where build variability doesn’t exist, we went from a broad skill tree (who doesn’t remember those hybrid mages with heals and offensive skills, or those war champion builds that could use any weapon they really wanted, or the gun/Launcher bourgeois!) to a really narrow option with pretty straight forward skill trees that most people share due to that.

 

 

We lost the option to change gears mid fight to respond to different scenarios when we couldn’t change gears mid fight: which once again resulted on most people using 1 set for everything instead of the old gear switch  to perform best at different scenarios.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Flames are too op! Needs to be nerfed, i was going to make a topic! good thing u saved me the trouble

[Feuer]

Try muting the flames with scout Siphon traps. They're AoE, spammable, you can cast 7 of them if you use a summon gem, and Flames can't Heal while muted. Side effect, the Clerics will go OOM very VERY quickly due to the 50% Current MP Burn, preventing further flames from being summoned. And with the recent changes, they won't mute yourself or allies when triggered.

 

There's other methods as well, such as PvP Elemental Wave, AoE Stuns, and Heavy AoE DoT's to kill them. Sleep also works, but isn't viable in group combat due to them being hit + waking up.

 

Until they're put on a duration setting, Flames will always be over powered. They should only last about 10-12 seconds in my opinion, then despawn naturally. Requiring more MP to upkeep and more attention to despawn times. 

[carlosrose]

Try muting the flames with scout Siphon traps. They're AoE, spammable, you can cast 7 of them if you use a summon gem, and Flames can't Heal while muted. Side effect, the Clerics will go OOM very VERY quickly due to the 50% Current MP Burn, preventing further flames from being summoned. And with the recent changes, they won't mute yourself or allies when triggered.

 

There's other methods as well, such as PvP Elemental Wave, AoE Stuns, and Heavy AoE DoT's to kill them. Sleep also works, but isn't viable in group combat due to them being hit + waking up.

 

Until they're put on a duration setting, Flames will always be over powered. They should only last about 10-12 seconds in my opinion, then despawn naturally. Requiring more MP to upkeep and more attention to despawn times. 

 

TBH the only actualy way to do it ATM is the Siphon traps yet scouts gotta get too close in the middle to perform it and will get trashed easily with the hge DMG outburst form DOTS in there.

 

As for the other methods PVP skills do not affect in any way to the flames since they are considered PVM so PVP stunts/mute will have no effect int hem what so ever. As for sleep a single aoe will wake it all up and there you go back into the spam madness.

 

I dont think the flames need to die after X amount of time I think adding a bigger cooldown between flames, with more mana cost as well as a nerf in the healing will prevent this from happening, even if they despawn naturally you are still in the same situation: they will just recast the skill and bang! another flame fest!!!

[Feuer]

Increasing Mana Costs and Cooldowns is exactly the same effect as having them for a duration with one key difference. Regardless of the flames being attacked, they will dissipate. This opens up single target viability for groups, instead of requiring AoE's to deal with the flames in particular. 

 

As for the PvP/PvM AoE I meant PvM, but because the topic is about PvP I mucked that up, so yeah, the PvM Mutes* are effective on them. 

 

As for the Scout issue with needing to be in the AoE zone, that's a risk worth taking as a trapper Scout. Seeing as my Scouts playstyle was a trapper, I built my character specifically for that. Higher HP, Good Dodge, and AP Subs where possible to increase my DoT Damages in an effort to increase Damage done [since I was able to take AoE targets at close range and hopefully get a few killing blows out of it]. A Trap scout is far different than a regular 'meta' scout. And before the changes to it, it required a lot of situational and map awareness to function well. It also required pre-planning, and some mind games in order to place traps before an enemy was even around, but still get them to fall for the trap nests. So when I say 'scout' forgive me for not being specific about the type and build, I was assuming scouts knew the difference and would have made the correlation on their own. 

 

 

[carlosrose]

Increasing Mana Costs and Cooldowns is exactly the same effect as having them for a duration with one key difference. Regardless of the flames being attacked, they will dissipate. This opens up single target viability for groups, instead of requiring AoE's to deal with the flames in particular. 

 

As for the PvP/PvM AoE I meant PvM, but because the topic is about PvP I mucked that up, so yeah, the PvM Mutes* are effective on them. 

 

As for the Scout issue with needing to be in the AoE zone, that's a risk worth taking as a trapper Scout. Seeing as my Scouts playstyle was a trapper, I built my character specifically for that. Higher HP, Good Dodge, and AP Subs where possible to increase my DoT Damages in an effort to increase Damage done [since I was able to take AoE targets at close range and hopefully get a few killing blows out of it]. A Trap scout is far different than a regular 'meta' scout. And before the changes to it, it required a lot of situational and map awareness to function well. It also required pre-planning, and some mind games in order to place traps before an enemy was even around, but still get them to fall for the trap nests. So when I say 'scout' forgive me for not being specific about the type and build, I was assuming scouts knew the difference and would have made the correlation on their own. 

 

With the increase of mana costs and cooldowns I see it more of a long run solution (since as the fight progress you are bond to get lower on your mana and you skills will slowly be getting into CD)

 

And yeah ofc I agree on the scout I was refering to the lack of trapper scout in the game 

 

What I was trying to look for are general solutions to fix the overpower flames and prevent the spamming of the skill.  I can see how a timer on the skill could try to help it but once again it comes down to how easy is to set up all 4 of them again in a time frame of 10 seconds. Perhaps a combination of a the timer on the skill as well as the increase on cooldown will prevent them from spamming said flames in that small interval of time.

[copetbus]

When NO Full support cleric, people compaint. When TOO MANY FS cleric ( again ) certain people complaint.

Flames die in 1 sec from massive AOE.

Not every game have plenty of clerics, think about when you will solo cleric, have to heal 14 other members.

 

Flames with current condition might helps, might not, depends on enemy side job.

If enemy member = champs, mages, other aoe job.

Your flames will die instantly and cost a lot of mana to summon it.

Even with more than 200 mp rec / sec, still struggling to summon flames ( this is with many aoes on other side situation ).

Blue pots might help, but when it's a long game.. it is not helping at all.

 

So imagine when you nerf flames, No more cleric will play Akram arena, in result, again.. people will complaint nobody play cleric. etc etc etc.

What you guys need to nerf is scout.

That job been dominated Akram arena, and certain people making group every single day, abusing Akram arena.

Please check Akram arena Queue, at least 6 scouts group with 1 specific cleric.

 

Watch after this post, the "group" members will attack me

 

[Feuer]

Flames die in 1 sec from massive AOE.

 

This hasn't been true for several weeks since the AoE Damage Spread patch, and with most Clerics becoming aware of the Unique Puri's power to prevent large amounts of AoE damage the flames also get cleansed. 

 

Just saying, flames are not weak, there is not any extremely efficient ways to deal with them, and misrepresenting them to be 'weaker' than they actually are is quite irritating. 

[QueenElizabeth]

I dont know if you played fs in aa, Feuer... but he is right. The flames die within seconds.

I play fs in aa and my main job is spamming flames. I have almost never 4 flames around me... just one or two... or no flame at all... even I spawn a new one as soon as the cooldown is done...  because they die 1 second after I spawned them.

It is impossible to keep the team alive only with this poor heals.

The buffs are nerfed.... the heals are nerfed... the cooldown of the heals is long... Salamander Flame is the only skill which is left to support the team.

 

But that is not a surprise. We all tested our chars on Pegasus.

And we knew about this changes and the power of the flames before the Paradigm Shift update came.

[Feuer]

I'll keep this brief.

 

I may not play my Cleric, but all of my AA builds revolve around Clerics with flames, because they're flat out over-powered. [Stacking Max HP and HP Received results in almost never dying til the Cleric is down]

Last time I checked [which was not very long ago and there hasn't been any patches affecting these mechanics] Flames last plenty long enough. I know, because I have to pay attention to them, because they're integrated into my builds.

 

Again, I stress. I know how long they last, and it's not "1 second". That's a flat out exaggeration or lie [take your pick]. If you think they die too fast, then say that. I personally think they're over powered and make some builds neigh invincible when they're out [even just 1 or 2]. Cause when you have +70'ought % increased healing received with 35k HP and are being healed for 4x% of your HP bar every 3 seconds, you aint dying. 

[copetbus]

For people who REALLY play Cleric every day in Akram arena ( not based on theory ), QueenElizabeth correct.

 

I myself had same experienced with her, It's very rare for me to have 4 flames alive for 1 min.

One by one die or all 4 flames die. 

 

Most of the time no flames alive or just 1 flame survive, summon another flames, "survived" flames gone.

So on our experience, most of the time only managed to have 1 - 2 flames.

 

Please consider about this as well. Keep spamming flames is needed since heals amount really low.

Then mana problem since flames keep dying.

[QueenElizabeth]

when you can do a build around the flames... that means, the clerics do a great job.Thank you for appreciating.

we are constantly pressing the F Keys for flames and heals... and the flames die within seconds. When you have the feeling, that the flames live longer... that is because you dont realize that it is a new flame already... and a new flame again... and a new flame...

I really like to talk... but you wont hear me a lot in aa... because I dont have time for that. My hands and fingers are pressing F Keys and the other hand is trying to target players for heal and revive... before the knights taunt my target away.

 

[thetrangdamvn]

I can confirm QueenElizabeth is correct.

I myself play FS a lot in AA this month too, and I have to cast flames constantly 

because they die too fast, they die as soon as they spawn.

 

Truth is they have only around 9k HP and a bit defense, they won't last a single spear champ aoe,

especially the first Fire AoE with burns. And there's no team without aoes, because now there are 

a lot of scouts, and they all have aoe or poisoned aoe.

 

Flames are no where near strong in PvP, you'll find yourself spamming flames most of the time,

because they heal far more than your pity heals.

 

Imagine playing an fs when you have to support all others, while keeping your flames spawned,

at the same time you're the first target to be muted/stunned/taunted.

 

I'm against nerfing flames because they are far more reliable than heals,

most of heals are now HoT, which is no match to the current meta of heavy skilling.

[carlosrose]

I cant believe I'm going to say this twice in a post but oh well... Feuer is right. Flames are OP even more if you coombine it with boosting your hp received what will result in insane heals every 3 seconds, is way too much.

Flames dont die in a second, just becouse you dont actually know how to set up flames properly and strategelly to perform at best doesnt mean they are fine. And fyi if you have mana trouble just spamming flames your build is wrong.

I do agree that the heal amount is low as I mentioned in the original post, even so at the moment you can still roughly manage (with a good team that knows how to play) to keep most people alive

Now I said it before this aint a topic about the cleric population (eventhough it might be a factor to take into consideration) as that might be a heated debate and I dont have the energy for it so keep that for yourself.

As for the crying about the "scout" group. HI IM THE CLERIC so lets get something straigh, we group for fun, playing always as a mspeed tag team, we aint going for the win and tbh most of the time we end up loosing cuz we focus too much on hunting down ppl (or we get rkted by purely aoe teams); scouts have a high dmg outburst in single target skills (As most other jobs) that combined with the stealth and range makes them lethal, as they've always been. The current problem with the job (and any other job) is related to the critical and critical defense: with no need for sense to critic and even with high amounts of charm the critic defense is laughable resulting in 5-6k critical hits 24/7

[ZeemScout]

 

I've been playing cleric for quite a few years in pretty much all the possible types there were and are. So I can say that I got quite an insight on the cleric job, so the reason why I'm making this topic would be the current play style in the game: after the last (big) patch everyone (that plays PvP) would agree that the cleric population got quite a huge increment on their numbers, whether people like the increase on their population or not is up for a debate but that's not what I wanted to discuss.

·        - Since the last skill update heals have suffered a great deal as most of them became HOT with, in my opinion, extremely LOW values compared to the damage increase as a result from the critic system and how with no sense investment what so ever you can still manage to deal a 9k critical with a single target skill with ease.

o   Suggestion: small boost into the rough healing amount or take a relook at the critical rating

·         Those "heals nerf" so to speak are in some way covered by the OVERPOWER flames 10% healing with a cool down of 2,5 seconds. With such a little mana cost allows for that INSANE spamming in PvP/PvM games. It's not difficult to end up in a game where clerics just rush under the crystal to spam their flames and cast heals on them which result easily in 25 minutes fights where no one dies in any side due to the nonstop healing coming from those flames.

o   Suggestion: nerf on the healing ability from flames, as well as an increase on the cooldown to avoid the constant 24/7 flames spamming

·        - Another concerned point would be the current "smooth" hp transition: as I mentioned before it is not difficult to find yourself in a situation with multiple characters attacking you (specially as a cleric) therefore keeping track of your own hp and the ones in your team is CRUCIAL, with the current hp bar this task is nearly close to impossible. I've encounter situations when for example a raider attacks a member of my team let's say it's a champion: I see the animation go and I can see the damage on the group hp bar being made but not on the character itself which makes it not only confusing but extremely hard to keep track of "priority healing targets".

o   Suggestion: coordinate the hp so both group hp bar and the character hp bar show the same…

·         -As for keeping track of your own HP with the current smooth transition, seeing how if you receive let's say a 3k hit followed by a 7k hit your hp will continuously drop, as in oppose to before where you had 2 hp drops that allowed for a exact HP tracking and allowed for precise use of a potion or a heal, or to know when it's time to retreat! At the moment with the huge amount of different DOT's there are, as well as the criticals,  AOE damage… All that damage combined with the smooth transition doesn’t allow for the player (despite what job they are) to keep track of the situation and results in a pretty chaotic environment.

o   Suggestion: go back to the old hp bar and drop this smooth transition nonsense.

 

We are heading into a direction where build variability doesn’t exist, we went from a broad skill tree (who doesn’t remember those hybrid mages with heals and offensive skills, or those war champion builds that could use any weapon they really wanted, or the gun/Launcher bourgeois!) to a really narrow option with pretty straight forward skill trees that most people share due to that.

 

 

We lost the option to change gears mid fight to respond to different scenarios when we couldn’t change gears mid fight: which once again resulted on most people using 1 set for everything instead of the old gear switch  to perform best at different scenarios.

 

 

 

+2,i don like hp "smooth",its make player confusing...