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Patch Notes: October 24, 2016


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#176 INCUBOY

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:33 PM

Thank you for being one of the only reasonable voices in this thread, I felt like I was taking crazy-pills reading some of these replies. 

 

I can't believe triviabot can be bias I am so disappointed 


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#177 INCUBOY

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:35 PM

Why don't you try being a Vcr then? there is a whole forum thread of suggestions if you feel like you need to suggest something. there's is nothing to contradict.

 

nothing to contradict ?   this guy is a jerk njoror you must kick him immediately i never thought vcr can be harsh 


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#178 INCUBOY

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:45 PM

Im fully aware of that, homewer we dont use "Off tank" feature in pvp. There is no legit scenario in pvp that uses warriors as off tanks.

 

not legit ? are you kidding me ? was it our fault that the swordsman has aura shield ? warrior handles two- handed sword for a reason thought this soda  have common sense I guess I was wrong . If they wanted to be tank warrior why take it away from them ? everyone has a choice. This guy doesn't know anything about his class pick another character please and delete your warriro for godsake


Edited by INCUBOY, 02 November 2016 - 11:46 PM.

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#179 TrembleGear

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:27 AM

Best to ignore this guy. The discussion is going over for a week now and there has already a new patch that has happened. In any case, whats done is done. And I personally think its for the better. No use crying over it.
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#180 Tonitrua

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:45 AM

I can't believe triviabot can be bias I am so disappointed 

 

I admit it, I'm very biased towards thoughtful and objective arguments instead of personal attacks, I hope Njoror doesn't kick me out of the VCR program.


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#181 INCUBOY

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:50 AM

Best to ignore this guy. The discussion is going over for a week now and there has already a new patch that has happened. In any case, whats done is done. And I personally think its for the better. No use crying over it.

 

ok hahahaha. this guy maybe one of the cryers too that doesn't farm to get stronger qq


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#182 INCUBOY

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:51 AM

I admit it, I'm very biased towards thoughtful and objective arguments instead of personal attacks, I hope Njoror doesn't kick me out of the VCR program.

 

u are good though except in this part 


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#183 KuroiKoneko

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:11 AM

too bad that there is no rule that forbid multiquote replies in several posts (to keep forum clean) 

lol


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#184 5318130516144610857

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:29 AM

not legit ? are you kidding me ? was it our fault that the swordsman has aura shield ? warrior handles two- handed sword for a reason thought this soda  have common sense I guess I was wrong . If they wanted to be tank warrior why take it away from them ? everyone has a choice. This guy doesn't know anything about his class pick another character please and delete your warriro for godsake

 

Seriously, Warriors have Aura Armor that grants them more HP, threat multiplier and decreased damage received, Defender that gives them 30% Parry, Dodge, Defense at the cost of lower attack power and skills that increase their parry and damage reduction abilities. They are the only class if i'm not mistaken that receive 2 parry per each 1 strenght. I'd love to hear from Soda his chain of arguments and thoughts that led him to his statement that "besides, warriors are not tanks". This is hilarious! 

 

Does it mean that a VCR can represent not only subsets of the community but also subsets of a class and everyone's fine with that, even though it clearly states in the definition of the program "The VCRs are representatives of the community to Warpportal, but they are also seen as representatives of RO2 by the community". This is dangerous, you've all a lot of faith in WP. To me a true VCR should be giving and defending all points of views presented to him by the community (Warriors not-tanks, Warriors tanks, BT lovers and haters etc.) and not only his views of how a class should work or perform. And I've seen enough of it to come to the conclusion nothing like that happens, hence my suggestion of redefinition of this program. Until then, it's utterly a lie.


Edited by 5318130516144610857, 03 November 2016 - 07:20 AM.

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#185 INCUBOY

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 01:49 AM

Seriously, Warriors have Aura Armor that grants them more HP, threat multiplier and decreased damage received, Defender that gives them 30% Parry, Dodge, Defense at the cost of lower attack power and skills that increase his parry and dodge abilities. They are the only class if i'm not mistaken that receives 2 parry per each 1 strenght. I'd love to hear from Soda his chan of arguments and thoughts that led his to his statement that "besides, warriors are not tanks". This is hilarious! 

 

Does it mean that a VCR can represent not only subsets of the community but also subsets of a class and everyone's fine with that, even though it clearly states in the definition of the program "The VCRs are representatives of the community to Warpportal, but they are also seen as representatives of RO2 by the community". This is dangerous, you've all have a lot of faith in WP. To me a true VCR should be giving and defending all points of views presented to him by the community (Warriors not-tanks, Warriors tanks, BT lovers and haters etc.) and not only his views of how a class should work or perform. And I've seen enough of it to come to the conclusion nothing like that happens, hence my suggestion of redefinition of this program. Until then, it's utterly a lie.

 

sadly it is not how dietsoda address this issue but oh well atleast im not the only that sees that dietsoda suggested to kill his own class that he represent


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#186 5318130516144610857

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:03 PM

You have misinterpreted me, I never saw that of him or said such thing. I was only taking what he said about the warrior class to give a very good example of how this representation is a lie and the word does not reflect what the players who are VCR have become -or never were in the first place- when speaking to WP within the program.


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#187 5318130516144610857

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 02:09 PM

WP could have at least the decency to change the definition to "The VCSRs are representatives of subsets of the community to Warpportal (...) " and I would be quiet.


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#188 Greven79

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:19 AM

Seriously, Warriors have Aura Armor that grants them more HP, threat multiplier and decreased damage received, Defender that gives them 30% Parry, Dodge, Defense at the cost of lower attack power and skills that increase his parry and dodge abilities. They are the only class if i'm not mistaken that receives 2 parry per each 1 strength. I'd love to hear from Soda his chan of arguments and thoughts that led his to his statement that "besides, warriors are not tanks". This is hilarious!

 
Of course it's bogus.
 
But it was already a wide-spreaded and commonly accepted opinion when I started this game as a warrior tank in summer 2013. (Some players even thought that you can't defeat Baphomet without a Knight). So you could say it was quite a "representative" statement. And if you use a metric to determine how many warrior are tanks right now, I bet you could also state that - (the vast majority of) warriors aren't tanks.

 

 

Does it mean that a VCR can represent not only subsets of the community but also subsets of a class and everyone's fine with that, even though it clearly states in the definition of the program "The VCRs are representatives of the community to Warpportal, but they are also seen as representatives of RO2 by the community".This is dangerous, you've all have a lot of faith in WP.
 
To me a true VCR should be giving and defending all points of views presented to him by the community (Warriors not-tanks, Warriors tanks, BT lovers and haters etc.) and not only his views of how a class should work or perform. And I've seen enough of it to come to the conclusion nothing like that happens, hence my suggestion of redefinition of this program. Until then, it's utterly a lie.

 
See, I'm from Germany. That means I have the fortune to live in a representative democracy with more than two equally powerful political parties. In such a system, the necessity to find compromises and to form coalitions - even between parties with contrary agendas - is paramount. Plus, it taught me another important lesson:

 

No delegate alone will ever represent "the whole community". It's the system that does!
 
And it's the same with the VCR system!  So yes, a single VCR may only represent a subset of the community or only a specific aspect of a class (or a build). But he won't be the only representative! Like there are different preferences among players in this community, there ought to be multiple VCRs with different opinions.

 

IMO, it's more important that there's a healthy discourse among these VCRs, that they respect other opinions and that they are willing to accept reasonable compromises, even if their class might suffer more than others. (Like the seedrune change affected these classes with off-hand seeds more than others). And should a certain point of view ever be underrepresented, you ought to get more players to join the VCR program who argue for it. Because IMO, two persons with opposite opinions are still way more preferrable than one who claims to represent everyone.
 
F.e. when I was a VCR, I was never really interested in community events, costume design/distribution or things like trivia bot (never participated). So I clearly couldn't represent the community in that regard (only those who didn't care either). But at least there were enough other VCRs that were into it.

 

So even if DietSoda is mistaken from time to time, it doesn't disqualify him as a VCR. And if he agrees with the BT changes, it's surely not to (quote): "kill his own class". Most likely, he was just open to the arguments of other VCRs that represent other classes.

 

Because to make BT less applicaple for Knights (by nerfing the Shield Charge CD, etc.) would have done nothing for the 8~10 other classes that have resonable concerns with that skill.


Edited by Greven79, 04 November 2016 - 10:46 AM.

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#189 5318130516144610857

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 11:20 AM

Do not even compare representative democracy to the VCR program. I actually thought of making the comparison but it's jsut not the same. First, unlike VCRs, in political parties you know what each party will stand for (represent), his view of how the government should be doing like etc. and we get nothing like that at all with the VCRs. Secondly, the community (or society) actually gets to have a word on who they decide to represent them, be it through party elections or government elections. When they vote, they choose who they want them to represent them. Here, it's WP that decides who is VCR and who is not, and it's WP ironically again that decides which way the game will go to. There is a lot of displacements in the comparison to be even considered.

 

I agree with you, it's important that those players must have discourse among them and different opinions and views about each class. However, given how the program is defined, all VCRs should be representing the whole community the best they can, offering to WP all the views and opinions from the community regarding how a class should be or whatever else there is to be considered. He should ultimately be only a spokeman from the community to RO2 and should not give only one side of the story, or many sides but not all of them. He should make all suggestions that he's heard of from the players to Warp Portal, and let WP decide if it's fit or not to go into the game, and not take only some into consideration. There is a lot of responsability if he wants to do the task truthfully and not everyone is capable to do that, even less when nobody, be it minority or majority. asked him to be represented by him in the first place.

 

 

And should a certain point of view ever be underrepresented, you ought to get more players to join the VCR program to argue for it.

 

That should not happen and more players joining the VCR should not be the solution given the way the program is defined. If it does, then there is a flaw in VCR side.

 

Looking at how everyone is performing once they're VCR, a simple change in the definition would make it more truthful to everyone and I would have no particular objection against how it's currently working. I'm actually only pissd at how WP defines its program not so much how the players are behaving- I can't realistically expect them to be true representatives. More importantly to me, it would allow me to candidate to become a subset representative and be part of the program if I wanted to, and also my concern of WP mistakenly taking a random suggestion from a VCR pulled from out of his ass and putting it into the game, because hey - that VCR represents supposedly the whole community the way they define it, would cease to exist. The guilt should be on WP's side solely and not divided between WP and the whole community through that VCR.

 

Now onto the Tank blopper, there isn't much more to say really, you said it yourself it's a bogus and I disagree it was a wide-accepted and commonly opinion back then. If the warrior was built properly he could main tank anything, and I've heard from a very strong and well-respected warrior back then, since for you that apparently counts and my opinon alone won't suffice, that he even considered the Warrior class to be the best tanker in game with their high Parry/Dodge and 40% reduc for 10 seconds every minute but only known by very few. Saying that warriors aren't a tank class when they perfectly fit in that definition is pure rubbish, and it's outrageous when it comes from a VCR.


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#190 Tonitrua

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 03:34 PM

More importantly to me, it would allow me to candidate to become a subset representative and be part of the program if I wanted to, and also my concern of WP mistakenly taking a random suggestion from a VCR pulled from out of his ass and putting it into the game, because hey - that VCR represents supposedly the whole community the way they define it

 

I can assure you of one thing: when a VCR proposes an idea like this - the idea quickly gets shot down by other VCRs making counter-arguments, and even if we all agree with an idea WP does not blindly implement things we suggest.  

VCRs don't make decisions for the game, the VCR program is nothing more than a discussion forum which WP listens in on to see what players think about the game before making their decisions. 


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#191 5318130516144610857

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:09 PM

I've seen enough from WP these past 3+ years to admit the possibility of such flop to occur, and I'm defending myself from the possibility of WP refuting the mistake as it was considered a community wish through that VCR by suggesting a little rework on how the program is defined to better reflect what truly goes on in the VCR program. I might be more pessimistic than most, but I see a flaw in that subtlety that I do not want to ever happen.

 

Anyway, I think my point is clear enough by now. What most likely will happen is everything remains the same and no other players but me and maybe few others see the subtle risk of having such a definition and how the players in the program behave. No problem.

 

And yes, I'm referring to WP, not Gravity.

 

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