190 replies to this topic

[5318130516144610857]

Besides,warriors are not tanks.

 

I disagree, warriors are offtanks and if built right they can be great main tanks. But it's not the main tank par excellence. If you are a VCR that represents the warrior class I can not feel represented by you if that's the case.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 31 October 2016 - 07:03 AM.

[KuroiKoneko]

@INCUBOY

 

alright, then let sorcerer be the only class who able to oneshot anyone like at pre-aov era, you will reroll to sorc right?

 

#MAKESORCERERGREATAGAIN

Edited by KuroiKoneko, 31 October 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[5318130516144610857]

Sorcs didn't 1shot me back then but they did remove 80 up to 90% of the HP with their spear skill. If we add on top of that the other that stuns/disables to cast skills they were very strong in PvP compared to all the others.

Edited by 5318130516144610857, 31 October 2016 - 07:22 AM.

[DietSodaa]

I disagree, warriors are offtanks and if built right they can be great main tanks. But it's not the main tank par excellence. If you are a VCR that represents the warrior class I can not feel represented by you if that's the case.

 

Im fully aware of that, homewer we dont use "Off tank" feature in pvp. There is no legit scenario in pvp that uses warriors as off tanks.

[5318130516144610857]

Yeah but can be tank simply and you claim warriors are not tanks. Are you also fully aware they can be as good and effective tanks as other tank classes with the proper build? I'm asking you because you are a VCR that apparently speak for the warriors and you supposedly represent the whole community when you speak to WP about balance and classes. You either don't know that or you are just careless with the words you choose to represent the player base, that doesn't look good at all on you.

And this is why I do not like the word representative. A perfect example.

[9632130515120055620]

That was pretty much the saddest attempt at defending BT I've ever seen. Warrior and knights still do nice damage if you've rehoned and re-runed, problem is that this just wasn't addressed during the change and people had no time to prepare (honing is a godawful system, no RRs provided). You just have to get used to the fact that the class isn't godmode anymore and actually has a weakness, I'd refrain from rerolling to the next current most OP character like EVERYONE DID WITH KNIGHT until all the balancing is addressed.

Edited by 9632130515120055620, 31 October 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[whenreinwasfall]

no..i mean if normal costume can slot in +80s then what is the purpose of getting swag?

 

if normal costume can be equip with 80 runes i think its OK also.. what is the purpose of getting swag?? you can answer that with yourself... all those player who cant afford to but fuse tablets can farm and let other player fuse costume if they want.. and it will give the company a good source of income for the game to survive. i think now fusing costume was dead

[LeviRD]

RIP Warriors (ಥ﹏ಥ)

 

Daed Geam 

[whenreinwasfall]

about BT nerf.. i think its ok to lessen the effect of BT but the cap you put was really a bad move... classes need to change rune rehone and adjust everything even cards... you can make it 0.1 with no cap if you want so player can still use their charater without rehoning and changing runes.. and removing a 1hit chance to kill other player, for me was not a good idea also especially on WOE... think of it, how can you get the fort or beat the enemies if they outnumber the attacker?? before theres a possibility even its a small chance.. now i think just outnumber other you will survive

Edited by whenreinwasfall, 31 October 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Castrayter]

Yeah but can be tank simply and you claim warriors are not tanks. Are you also fully aware they can be as good and effective tanks as other tank classes with the proper build? I'm asking you because you are a VCR that apparently speak for the warriors and you supposedly represent the whole community when you speak to WP about balance and classes. You either don't know that or you are just careless with the words you choose to represent the player base, that doesn't look good at all on you.

And this is why I do not like the word representative. A perfect example.

what a joke?

u dont know that VRC only care about the guild they are in? and only fight for thier own good? 

[Castrayter]

The way I see it, you're still dealing with conflicting arguments with or without the VCR program. It's just that with the VCR program you're dealing with less people, which I don't see being all that much better.

My suggestion for Volunteer RO2 Developer still stands. It's a better indicator of what those players are actually doing and not giving off the vibe that they represent the rest of the playerbase. iRO already has something similar going and not as many people are opposed to it compared to community representatives.

problem here is GMs dont really play the games that much, and they dont really understand it 

u will know it when GMs are online and the question they ask about the basic on the games such as map details/keywise etc etc via public chat which u can see them sometimes.

GMs only listen to the so call VRCs about what to fix....

[siegveer]

@INCUBOY

 

alright, then let sorcerer be the only class who able to oneshot anyone like at pre-aov era, you will reroll to sorc right?

 

#MAKESORCERERGREATAGAIN

 

Yes.. sorcerer inc build so squishy, at least make us top first damage dealer again like old days  ( Lots Era )
 

[Fugcker]

Suggestion for some VCR PROGRAM : if this is implemented or not?
 
1st : is there any pvp vcr member or any pve vcr ? i suggest that there will be a VCR for PVE and PVP some other vcr are contradicting some balance movement(suggestion) on creating this balance i think you need to designated base on your game style on the game. not all people are positive on the balancing but few of them. my point is have a VCR program for PVE and VCR program for PVP so other people can fully enjoy what is Ragnarok Online 2 is all about cause other people in the GAME if your in the game really? or not? more people complaining. 
 
 
2nd: Im not pin-pointing all VCR cause some VCR are good in Game once a newbie/noob in the game they always respond but some are not responding what is vcr is all about your not a VFR (Vitrual Forum Representative) only in forum your active but in GAME tsk.tsk.tsk. (try to help the game not to kill the game near future help other new people to enjoy the game) think about it first when you will join the VCR program FYI i dont want to join VCR im just saying my suggestion on whats happening to us like me normal player in game i hope do your job not be a Keyboard warrior in Forum (if you have no way to reason with just do what vcr program is all about) .

read before you join please (http://www.playragna...ws/article/477#)

 

#nuffsaid

http://imgur.com/99GVL3c

[7843140731162112220]

problem here is GMs dont really play the games that much, and they dont really understand it
u will know it when GMs are online and the question they ask about the basic on the games such as map details/keywise etc etc via public chat which u can see them sometimes.
GMs only listen to the so call VRCs about what to fix....

Yea hope gm will think about who should they listen better, vcr that never play and never get to ml40 in live server or vcr that always on in live server..

Anyway gm can see vcr have pretty bad reputation now, either in game or forum

Edited by 7843140731162112220, 31 October 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[ryzzyk]

many VCR think this game should always follow their way of playing anyway. 

 

btw, where this week patch note?

[INCUBOY]

Suggestion for some VCR PROGRAM : if this is implemented or not?
 
1st : is there any pvp vcr member or any pve vcr ? i suggest that there will be a VCR for PVE and PVP some other vcr are contradicting some balance movement(suggestion) on creating this balance i think you need to designated base on your game style on the game. not all people are positive on the balancing but few of them. my point is have a VCR program for PVE and VCR program for PVP so other people can fully enjoy what is Ragnarok Online 2 is all about cause other people in the GAME if your in the game really? or not? more people complaining. 
 
 
2nd: Im not pin-pointing all VCR cause some VCR are good in Game once a newbie/noob in the game they always respond but some are not responding what is vcr is all about your not a VFR (Vitrual Forum Representative) only in forum your active but in GAME tsk.tsk.tsk. (try to help the game not to kill the game near future help other new people to enjoy the game) think about it first when you will join the VCR program FYI i dont want to join VCR im just saying my suggestion on whats happening to us like me normal player in game i hope do your job not be a Keyboard warrior in Forum (if you have no way to reason with just do what vcr program is all about) .

read before you join please (http://www.playragna...ws/article/477#)

 

#nuffsaid

http://imgur.com/99GVL3c

 

I ike the beard and the thought !

 

3.     While we completely welcome constructive criticism in order to help make the game better, we also expect that the VCRs are not saying anything inappropriate or misbehaving while their name is associated to this program. This includes telling players to avoid playing RO2, being a troll, or in any other way not representing yourself, your class, or the community well. I Think DIETSODA broke this part of the rule wahahaha and RAIKUHA too someone told me he wanted to nerf CLS SWAG SO BAD . Kick these vcr that suggest these kind of nerfs. Other vcrs pls contradict and discuss whenever they suggest these things because they rarely bond or hang out and see what is happening inside the community anymore

[INCUBOY]

@INCUBOY

 

alright, then let sorcerer be the only class who able to oneshot anyone like at pre-aov era, you will reroll to sorc right?

 

#MAKESORCERERGREATAGAIN

 

I don't see anything bad about  that I wish I enrolled to the program to do so but I only play war 

Edited by INCUBOY, 01 November 2016 - 12:28 AM.

[Tonitrua]

Anyway gm can see vcr have pretty bad reputation now, either in game or forum

 

The vast majority of people who think unfavorably of VCRs are the those who have no idea what VCRs actually do and somehow believe the VCRs conspired to nerf things that unfavorably effect their own characters, or people who have personal grudges against specific VCR players.

I'm sure the CMs can easily recognize these people because they are a loud, vocal minority who tend to complain about every change (and lack of change) that happens in this game. 

[7843140731162112220]

The vast majority of people who think unfavorably of VCRs are the those who have no idea what VCRs actually do and somehow believe the VCRs conspired to nerf things that unfavorably effect their own characters, or people who have personal grudges against specific VCR players.
I'm sure the CMs can easily recognize these people because they are a loud, vocal minority who tend to complain about every change (and lack of change) that happens in this game.

So you saying vcr is representing minority player in game, not representing majority player?
Why should change made because of minority?

[Tonitrua]

So you saying vcr is representing minority player in game, not representing majority player?

 

I didn't say anything remotely like that. 

[9632130515120055620]

. I Think DIETSODA broke this part of the rule wahahaha and RAIKUHA too someone told me he wanted to nerf CLS SWAG SO BAD . Kick these vcr that suggest these kind of nerfs. Other vcrs pls contradict and discuss whenever they suggest these things because they rarely bond or hang out and see what is happening inside the community anymore

 

I think it's so damn funny that BT gets nerfed and all the angry knights and warriors lash out at VCRs who had nothing to do with it. Do you ACTUALLY thing this was their fault or was it the general consensus of the community for over 2 years that it's the most broken skill in the game? Getting rid of CLS from swag is also a no brainer in terms of balance -- yeah, that extra 60% pvp bonuses is really helpful for the game where nobody can kill redu players anymore (and don't think BT has something to do with this, you don't use a broken skill as an excuse to deal with another broken issue). What you're doing is saying "HIS OPINION IS WRONG, I'M RIGHT, I'M NOT GOING TO DISCUSS WHY I THINK SWAG CLS IS BROKEN, THAT MEANS VCRS ARE BAD". Get a grip. These are exactly the type of posts which don't make me question why people without good balance gamesense and logic aren't included in discussions like that.

 

You talk about "in game community" but it's so damn divided in terms of PvP that there isn't one. After every WoE the two opposing factions of guilds are guaranteed to throw crap at each other like "#FORTLESS, gg ez, garbage players" etc. Yeah that's a real fantastic community right there who can openly talk to each other about balance. 10/10 would laugh again

 

I've been in the VCR chats in the past and it's nothing what you guys are making it out to be. Discussions about topics happen very openly and sensible decisions are made often -- note that none of these decisions are guaranteed put into the game, rather just suggested. There are a couple who don't play the game much (arbalist, tonitrua) but they have such a solid understanding of how everything in the game works and formulas that it'd be stupid to not include them in changes that involve numbers. I AGREE however that people should be at ML40 to be in it since that means they've experienced everything the game has to offer and so their opinions are more valid - people sticking their thumbs up their butts at ML20-30 shouldn't be one.

Edited by 9632130515120055620, 01 November 2016 - 05:15 AM.

[Fugcker]

in any balance if your weak your weak just work harder to become stronger dont complain anything even nerfing is not the solution but i know we work hard to get those item to become stronger and stronger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#justsayin #nuffsaid #sseltrof

[Sealt]

I ike the beard and the thought !

 

3.     While we completely welcome constructive criticism in order to help make the game better, we also expect that the VCRs are not saying anything inappropriate or misbehaving while their name is associated to this program. This includes telling players to avoid playing RO2, being a troll, or in any other way not representing yourself, your class, or the community well. I Think DIETSODA broke this part of the rule wahahaha and RAIKUHA too someone told me he wanted to nerf CLS SWAG SO BAD . Kick these vcr that suggest these kind of nerfs. Other vcrs pls contradict and discuss whenever they suggest these things because they rarely bond or hang out and see what is happening inside the community anymore

Why don't you try being a Vcr then? there is a whole forum thread of suggestions if you feel like you need to suggest something. there's is nothing to contradict.

[Greven79]

Oh boy, what a mess... The least I can say is: Every game has the community it deserves.
 

Heard some good powerful overpowered vcr suggesting other nerf?
Why wp listen to vcr who just got into ml40 recently? Vcr that just played in test server not even play in live server? Vcr who not even login? Vcr who talk without any proof? Pve vcr who talk godly that they can kill pvp player? I don't see any sense of listening to them.

 
The answer you're looking for is called "(systematic) logic".

 

And since we're down to single word ethymology: noun | log·ic | \ˈlä-jik\ | from the greek logike or logos (word / discourse)
 
In the end, it means a person doesn't has to check everything or do everything to determine the underlying patterns. And in that way, statements like "The next winter solstice (for the northern hemisphere) will be on 2016 Dec. 21" can be made without actually waiting for that day to pass by.
 
Ideas, models or conclusions are never proposed on their own, but rather as a chain of arguments. The overall value of a statement is then determined by considering each 'step' or rather each 'transition'.
 
And that's the reason why a VCR (or any other player) can state his ideas freely. And it might be the reason why VCRs don't always 'represent' the preferences of the community. Not the result counts, but the presented chain of thoughts! And in that way, you can't simply accept or dismiss the result. You must either confirm or rebut the steps that has led there.

 

Which brings me to the actual changes.

 

I won't discuss them in detail - I already did that. However, I want to point out why they are fine as the are.

 

First of all, a proposal how to fix Battle Tactics existed even before the AoV "patch" was released in december 2013. Since then, neither the chain of arguments nor the underlying structure has changed that much. So it's surely not a short-thoughted fix nor is it even connected to a single VCR or the system in general. It's been 3 years now and I've yet to see a counterproposal that consists of more than "I got used to it" or "But <xyz> is much worse!". And it would be that easy: Calculate the skill damages, the average DPS output as well as the damage 'peeks' and compare them. Done!

I currently play another MMO that takes place in a well-known universe and guess what: Players call a 8% DPS deviation between 18 different classes//builds an "unbearable" inbalance, making dedicated suggestions of how to address that!

 

Second, I like the fact that WarpPortal did not address any other issues - like the often-mentioned PvE disparity. Why? Because: "You might seek perfection, but you don't simply achieve it!" And balance is a form of perfection!

 

So this sort of fix is clearly not an all-embracing patch (I wouldn't even call it a 'giant leap'), but it isn't a minor cosmetical fix either. In my opinion, it's quite good in regard of setting the pace for upcoming changes and it still allows them to choose their next step freely. (f.e. more class balances, pet system changes, a formula rework or a content adjustment).

 

This of course doesn't mean I approve everything. But it's great to see that the direction is set and the tendencies are clear.

Edited by Greven79, 02 November 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[Tonitrua]

<snip>

 

Thank you for being one of the only reasonable voices in this thread, I felt like I was taking crazy-pills reading some of these replies.