10 replies to this topic

[Saturn33]

After seeing quite a number of player commented on the Purple Rune Hole on these Magic Grade Costume outshine the Normal Rune Hole in the Normal Grade Costume. Player who were pursuing for max stat on their character certainly would go for it. Eventually a large amount of player would use these outfit and looks the same, which deviated from what we were really seeking in a MMORPG about unique and variety.

 

Since CM Njoror already mentioned that, they might have a plan to change the rune hole on these costumes. And here, I might have an idea for it, and it may looks like something unusual to you all.

 

 

The idea will be illustrated as following:

 

For 1s Swag/Kafra Ruby, we change:

- 1st Purple Rune Hole --> A 30% Effect Card Slot.

 

For 2s Swag/Kafra Ruby, we change:

- 1st Purple Rune Hole --> A Normal Rune Hole.

- 2nd Purple Rune Hole --> A 30% Effect Card Slot.

 

For 3s Swag/Kafra Ruby, we change:

- 1st Purple Rune Hole --> A White Rune Hole.

- 2nd Purple Rune Hole --> A Normal Rune Hole.

- 3rd Purple Rune Hole --> A 30% Effect Card Slot.

 

 

So, what do these Rune Hole/Card Slot stand for?

 

White Rune Hole:

- This Rune Hole is designed to slot in CLS Rune on Colo Equipment back in RO2:LOTS Era. So I would like to bring this old Rune Hole back to these new costumes.

 

Normal Rune Hole:

- We know that this Rune Hole is used to slot in Main Stat Rune up to +50.

 

30% Effect Card Slot:

- This Card Slot works like a Normal Card Slot, which is meant for slot in a Card. But it will only takes 30% of the Total Card Stat as the Effective Stat which would afterwards applied to your character.

 

- For example, let's say we use a piece of [Uparus Gladiator Card] on this Card Slot. This card originally gives 70 VIT, and 70 Vigor. After slotted in, it will only takes 30% Effect from the Total Card Stat, which is 21 VIT, and 21 Vigor, to become the Effective Stat which would afterwards applied to your character.

 

- This Card Slot is on a costume, thus it doesn't have Level Restriction for a Card to slot in.

- Card Set Effect will be disable in this Card Slot. (Don't confused with the term "30% Effect" mentioned above.)

- This Card Slot may required a Super Puncher to open up the slot in order to equip Card.

- Card slotted in may works like a "Rune Token", which would required a "Rune Remover" to extract the Card from the Card Slot.

- Card which have a status of "bind on equip", will be bound once equiped in this Card Slot.

 

 

Next, we compare the Total Stat which could get from a 3s Normal Costume to a 3s Swag Costume side by side.

 

For 3s Normal Costume, let's say we slotted in:

- 3x +50 INT Bind Rune, and in total, we get 150 INT.

 

For 3s Swag Costume, we slotted in:

- 1st Slot = A CLS Attack Rune which gives PVP+ 3%,

- 2nd Slot = A +50 INT Bind Rune,

- 3rd Slot = Let's say a [Giant Forest's White Poisonous Bug Card] which originally gives 120 VIT, and after a 30% effective stat applied, it will gives 36 VIT.

In total, we get 50 INT, 36 VIT, & PVP+ 3%.

 

By comparing the Total Stat from these two costumes, we can see that the 3s Swag Costume didn't actually outshine the 3s Normal Costume.

 

But don't be disappointed, Swag/Kafra Ruby Costumes are still unique in the way that, they give more customization of stat to your character. We could have a CLS Rune with PVP+/- 3% for PVP player, a +50 STR/INT/AGI Bind Rune, and a wide range of Stat from Cards (which included Main Stat - STR/INT/AGI/WIS/VIT, and Secondary Stat like Cast Speed, Vigor, Critical, and Penetration).

 

A 3s Normal Costume is still good for player who were preferred on a Single Focused Stat, for example, +150 STR/INT/AGI.

 

 

 

Lastly, hope this change could relieve the strain of PVP Imbalance which is caused by the Total PVP+/- 45% from Swag Costumes. Thank you. 

Edited by Saturn33, 25 November 2016 - 04:53 AM.

[Saturn33]

Side Note on Swag Costume:

 

One of the player does pointed out the fact that, Swag Item from Cheny's Soul has a 50% chance to get a Noel Swag, and a 50% chance to obtain a Human Swag. But Noel Race is only 16.67% of the total Class, while Human Race is about 83.33% of the total Class. Eventually there will have excessive amount of Noel Swag, while Human Swag still in shortage. Player are reluctant to dismantle it because dismantle gives diminished return. They are still hoping for a 1 to 1 exchange/trade.

 

Since you already increased the dismantle rate to 40 Piece of Loki's Dress, I believe you can decrease the requirement to exchange for 1 Swag Costume to 40 Piece of Loki's Dress. This even out everything and potentially solved the problem mentioned above. Further more, it gives player more accessible to Swag Costumes.

 

I wish WP could consider this as well. Thank you. 

Edited by Saturn33, 30 October 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Njoror]

Hey,

 

Cool ideas.

 

Regarding changing the purple runeholes, we're presented with two issues:

 

• Changing runeholes and refunding runes is a large undertaking, and wouldn't be one that we could easily or would want to revert if we detected an issue down the line
• Players have spent their time/money/zeny/diamonds/sweat on acquiring the Kafra and Swag costumes because of their more favored purple runeholes, and making changes to them makes all that effort seem lessened. If this was an argument on design before implementation, then yes, we would be more willing to make the change.

 

So, we're looking at alternatives currently.

One idea is to roll out versions of pre-existing cosmetic items, but with purple runeholes, attainable from the new fusion system (that should be coming in December).

Another is to provide some means to change runeholes (though the backend design of this seems... complicated, if possible).

 

We do know that the reason we would be looking at changing the purple runeholes is because the purple runehole design, in itself, was flawed. Gravity's original design idea with the Serenia and purple runeholes was to provide players with an option to use their gear for PvE or PvP. They believe players would then use Rune Removers and Punchers to switch between both areas, and have a more hybrid version than having separate PvE and PvP sets like we had at level 50. This isn't what happened. Players would prefer to stack the most useful runes in their sockets, and be done with it.

 

So, we're also looking into some other side issues and resolutions:

 

1. Addressing the stat creep that is PvP Increase and PvP decrease.

 

More runeholes were added that allowed for CLS runes to be socketed, but I know they did not foresee this would cause a stat creep issue with PvP Attack and PvP Defense. I once asked an old developer what the distinction between 100% PvP Decrease and 110% should be, and they didn't have an answer.

The idea we are testing right now is applying a diminishing return to stacking CLS runes instead of just nerfing them. This is what we're looking at right now:

 

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/DeAa9RT.png

 

The rows represent how many CLS runes a player could stack. You can see a comparison of current CLS rune stacking vs our proposed formula. Initially, you actually get more benefit from using those runes. However, if you continue to stack it and use hones (represented by the bottom rows) then you'll have less and less effect. It'll still give a slight effect, just not as much.

We think this will give the decision to the player for how much they would like to stack depending on how their play style is, and allows them to choose to socket other runes if they wish to have other benefits.

 

2. Using a sort of balancing buff on PvP maps to separate PvE from PvP.

 

We're borrowing the Colosseum balancing buff design and going to work on a buff that can apply to all PvP zones to restrict effects of certain items and allow others.

The idea would be to allow only PvP items to be used on PvP maps, avoiding stat creep that can occur with ever-increasing PvE gear and runes, and the one-shots that come from that.

We would then be able to introduce a new PvP set to go after that would be catered to a PvP experience.

This also helps to somewhat futureproof PvP from any PvE additions, that we intend to start rolling out in 2017, since it will allow PvP to continue to exist in a bubble of PvP items and experiences without being affected by the PvE growth outside of it.

 

 

We are working on a lot of other stuff, too, but this is some of it. I like your ideas, keep them coming!

[Nicholaz]

I deem this proposal is not good, as player have free will to dress whatever they like. Most player wearing swag will have high tendency to wear and show their transmorg equipment rather than swag/kafra costume. Besides that changing the rune hole is not fair toward those who spent or work hard for it, Those who agreed in this just being lazy or frustrated over the RNG rate and unable to get the costume. I prefer the costume stay the way as gravity wanted it to be. Changing it to piss off a group of people is not cool. Peace out.

[Anthanasia]

The suggestion look nice but we already have 5 slot card itself,I don't think we need more extra card slot for that.I still prefer the kafra/swag costume stay as it is function now.Some players already spend alot of time,zeny,kp to get the swag/kafra costume, so if want to make any changes to the rune,card,etc it should be decide before you implement swag/kafra costume. Also, nerfing the cls rune, why it is not tested much earlier stage during the kafra/swag just released?Tested and want to change it now make those player that already build their char properly rebuild it over and over again. Not every player can rebuild their char as fast as they want, so anything before implement should have it tested before it released officially in game.

[vegetakakarot1]

Is there any topic talking about the balance of PvE content of RO2? All i can see is about pvp. Don't  you know many players quit after they done Grinding in Osiris because the mobs starting in Dark whisper and above are hard for new players. This make player only invite players that have good equipment which is mostly alt charather that have full refine equipment. My suggestion is to remove the mobs def rate and put elements to boost all of the class aoe damage. For know, the only class that survive in this game is SoulMakers, Cresentia and "Friends and Alts" class. and please enough with the pvp balance and start focusing on pve to make people comeback to this game again.

[xAyanox]

Ok.... first of all the first proposed idea it's quite a really weird one and I kind of understand where you coming from but I don't think it's necessary since it pushes players to use transmog making us all different....... Now about the runes and cls ill address it along with Njoror idea. i am going to start with the 2nd idea about making pvp maps have a restriction buff just like colo. The only concern i would have about this idea would be the fact that PvP maps like PF and MF are not only PvP driven (like colo) they also have some PvE to it, by making these maps PvP restricted you are actually affecting the PvE aspects of it considering that CLS do not affect the damage to things likes Mobs, Guardians. Gates, Emp etc etc(unless you want to change this aspect) . Now if you guys are considering making a PvP set you will have to consider this aspect as well, which leads me to the 1st idea about nerfing the CLS effect.Now cls attack is affected by the stats which actually lead to the whole one shot thing because the stats are high in serenia gear which made the cls have more effect.Now, going back to pvp gear if you are considering to making one the stats i believe will not be as high as the PvE gears which could also become like a nerf to CLS. so PERSONALLY if you really wanna make a PvP set before you even start messing with the runes i would first try to balance the stats of this PvP gear and see its effect with the current CLS. Now if we are not making a PvP gear then just go ahead and nerf it.​

Edited by xAyanox, 24 November 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Saturn33]

I agree that my suggestion is not a good one for the current status of the game, since the damage already have been done. I understand that the refund of rune will be a massive work, any mistake could cause a big mess, so we would like to avoid it. And I realize that player spend effort to obtain the costumes because they want the "Purple Rune Hole", and not other. So, let's put this aside. I'm glad that WP already came out with their solution for the problem.

 

 

Asides from the Swag Rune Hole change, actually I would like to introduce the idea of "(x)% Effect Card Slot/Hole" as a side idea. We know that we already have 5 Card Slots, thus some might suggest that we don't need more of them, but allow me to finish my suggestion.

 

 

I might want to propose to replace the Honing System on Future Equipment (probably ML45 PVE/PVP Equipment) with this side idea.

 

Why replace Honing System on Future Equipment? Firstly, we know that Honing System is one of the cause of the large status point gap among player, which further magnify the imbalance. 5 lines of full useful stats on 4 stars equipment vs 5 lines of less/not useful stats on 2 stars equipment, and from a total of 6 equipment, that's a large stats gap. WP might need more effort to balance the game if Honing System still on going on Future Equipment. Furthermore, the Super RNG from the Honing System is one of the most frustrated RNG in the game. From some player post, they mentioned that they had spend more than hundred of scrub to get the the stats they want. What would this imply? Honing System might not be a system that player favour for. Player have less control of stats on their equipment. Of course it's good when it gives massive useful stats, but when the luck gone bad, you have to spend a lot of time and money on it.

 

Player might want to have more control of stats on their equipment. Thus, I came out with this suggestion.

 

So, how is a ML45 equipment stat and upgrade looks like?

 

First, pump up the Raw Stat of the equipment to match ML45 content, since honing is no longer available on them. Next, we might have 3 Rune Holes on them:

1st Slot - Purple Rune Hone

2nd Slot - Gold Rune Hone

3rd Slot - 50% Effect Card Slot/Hole

 

For 1st Slot, player can decide it's a STR/INT/AGI Rune, or a PVP+/- Rune.

For 2nd Slot, player can decide if they want it for Main Stat, or Secondary Stat, or for a Greenseed Effect.

For 3rd Slot, a player can get wide range of desire stats from Card with 50% Effect.

 

In this way, player can have more control and more customization of stats on their equipment, but without massive stats boost like in Honing System (I believe the total stats from 6 Cards with 50% Effect won't surpass the total stats from honing). After reducing the stats gap among player, it might further help WP on balancing workout.

 

 

Lastly, I sincerely thanks CM Njoror taking his time to reply and giving some insight about what WP is planning and their progress on future updates. That makes WP more transparent and open up discussion of their future plan to more audience. Thank you very much. 

 

 

Side notes:

Actually player still wishing for a non cash (and without RNG) source of Rune Remover and Complete Honing Scrub to change their character build. Can we have them available for The Chance Coupon or Diamond for a limited time, let's say 2 weeks? There might be another wave of rune change after the CLS Rune change roll out.

Edited by Saturn33, 24 November 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[zareza]

........

 

Side notes:

Actually player still wishing for a non cash (and without RNG) source of Rune Remover and Complete Honing Scrub to change their character build. Can we have them available for The Chance Coupon or Diamond for a limited time, let's say 2 weeks? There might be another wave of rune change after the CLS Rune change roll out.

 

have you ever met this npc? he has non-cash-and-without-rng rune removers.

 

[5318130516144610857]

Thanks for sharing publicly the table! I'm looking forward to these changes become reality, they look good on paper. And special thanks to Saturn for opening this topic.   

[Maxscha]

*remembers when 3 slot purple hole items were introduced, and how many asked for the items to be removed before they became too much a part of the game to nerf without irking the masses*

 

*looks at proposal to add a new system with more RNG as a possible fix for the lingering mess*

 

*looks at the RNG fixes for lingering messes in the past*

 

*smh*

 

~Just sayin'    

Edited by Maxscha, 03 December 2016 - 12:07 AM.