219 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

no that wasnt the reason they were againts it. That was just used as argument against ppl saying it would make some underdog classes to shine, wich is not 1 piece of gear thats going to do it.

Their mere existance is the problem

 

So its a purge they want!!!

[Kusanagisama]

And there we go again...

 

I'd really like to see a detailed, RATIONAL, argument as to why "their mere existence is a problem", instead of "what they do is a problem", though I guess it would be a show of horrors.

 

Kaddy, the way you coded it, it buffs dagger GXes as well.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 01 December 2016 - 09:36 AM.

[Kadelia]

And there we go again...

 

I'd really like to see a detailed argument as to why "their mere existence is a problem", instead of "what they do is a problem", though I guess it would be a show of horrors.

 

Kaddy, the way you coded it, it buffs dagger GXes as well.

 

Except GXes can't equip it.

[Kusanagisama]

Whoops... didn't see the job restriction. Then, why the weapons restriction?

[Shurie]

Whoops... didn't see the job restriction. Then, why the weapons restriction?

 

Job + weapons restrictions = no bows for rangers

[Kadelia]

Whoops... didn't see the job restriction. Then, why the weapons restriction?

 

Because bow ranger, bow performer, rods on mages, huumas on ninja, ... those sorts of things-- don't need the boost and would keep the alt builds I am trying to buff (like trapper ranger/falconer, crit dagger soul linker, metallic sound and melee performers, melee battle bishops) from closing the gap I am trying to close.

Edited by Kadelia, 01 December 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[DarkDan]

Has maintenance started? Wasn't given a warning that maintenance was about to start. Log in is down right now. 

 

Nevermind lol. 10:30am pacific time. Darn. Was hoping to get one more upgrade in with enriched lol. 

Edited by DarkDan, 01 December 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[RichieDagger]

GMs - Please tweak the Penetration set and then release it! Suggested changes in purple.

 

I understand your sentiment, class balance is abysmal, but I don't understand the push for this as a fix. Wouldn't it be better for the skill formulas to be adjusted rather than make cash shop items compulsory for certain classes to be playable?

[Kusanagisama]

I understand your sentiment, class balance is abysmal, but I don't understand the push for this as a fix. Wouldn't it be better for the skill formulas to be adjusted rather than make cash shop items compulsory for certain classes to be playable?

 

Of course it would be better, but we all know very well that kRO won't do it. This, on the other hand, already exists.

Edited by Kusanagisama, 01 December 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[Kadelia]

I understand your sentiment, class balance is abysmal, but I don't understand the push for this as a fix. Wouldn't it be better for the skill formulas to be adjusted rather than make cash shop items compulsory for certain classes to be playable?

 

Because time and time again we've been disappointed withy upcoming cards and gears that are like "arrow storm damage +100%" on the ranger one, "rolling cutter +120%" on the gx one, and "Double Strafe damage +2% and Max HP +1%" on the performer gears. They don't see it as a problem. And they aren't going to change server code for us. The item is an item  and we have it... and Campitor CAN get them to change item scripts for us. So I am trying to latch onto what we CAN do.

[RichieDagger]

Of course it would be better, but we all know very well that kRO won't do it. This, on the other hand, already exists.

 

These items existing on kRO is irrelevant. Adjusting numbers in one database shouldn't be any more laborious than adjusting those in another.

 

edit:

 

Because time and time again we've been disappointed withy upcoming cards and gears that are like "arrow storm damage +100%" on the ranger one, "rolling cutter +120%" on the gx one, and "Double Strafe damage +2% and Max HP +1%" on the performer gears. They don't see it as a problem. And they aren't going to change server code for us. The item is an item  and we have it... and Campitor CAN get them to change item scripts for us. So I am trying to latch onto what we CAN do.

 

I guess I can empathize more, so long as you're being honest about it being an act of desperation rather than trying to normalize it as healthy, optimal game design.

Edited by RichieDagger, 01 December 2016 - 09:54 AM.

[Kadelia]

I understand your sentiment, class balance is abysmal, but I don't understand the push for this as a fix. Wouldn't it be better for the skill formulas to be adjusted rather than make cash shop items compulsory for certain classes to be playable?

 

Because time and time again we've been disappointed with upcoming cards and gears that are like "arrow storm damage +100%" on the ranger one, "rolling cutter +120%" on the gx one, and "Double Strafe damage +2% and Max HP +1%, but wearer loses 6666 HP per second" on the performer gears.

 

They don't see it as a problem. And they aren't going to change server code for us. Getting skill formulas update ain't happening. The item is an item  and we have it... and Campitor CAN get them to change item scripts for us for just our localization. So I am trying to latch onto what we CAN do.

Edited by Kadelia, 01 December 2016 - 09:52 AM.

[Ethanasael]

I think that skills are so EASY to balance, like just insert a status to skill damage account, without nerfing it, but increasing final damage as percentage. Imagine, for example, Axe Tornado, Weapon Weight don't enter on damage formula, so it was so easy to balance it, with every 100 weight damage multiples  1x(one time more). 400 weight 4x dmg or even less, its just a example. With a good equiped mechanic at level 139 i'm making around 14k dmg with axe tornado, with a 400 weight axe it would be 56k dmg. To my level it keeps not that BIG dmg, then that monsters start having 60k+ hp. It's just a example, don't be pissed off please.

In Power Swing, for example, every 10 str could reduce 0.08 sec cd, so with 120 str it would be like cart ram, very low delay to use, since it's damage is not that all and is single target.

This applies to any class having low balled skills. Don't enter in my mind that a arrow should do more damage than a giant axe crushing your head in 10000 thousand pieces.

Edited by Ethanasael, 01 December 2016 - 10:01 AM.

[ShinobiEX3]

After reading everything everyone had to say about the shadow set i have come to my conclusion.

 

I like turtles. >.>

 

[Nirvanna21]

The problem is some effects just should not be available via shadow slots.

 

This was why I started a thread a while back about re-hashing existing items with new abilities. It would be a way to introduce certain effects for certain purposes rather than pushing for shadow slotted effects.

[Ashuckel]

besides, some of these shadow gears completely criple some future gears, that if they(shadows) do not exist, will be very usefull and powerfull for many jobs.

[Kusanagisama]

These items existing on kRO is irrelevant. Adjusting numbers in one database shouldn't be any more laborious than adjusting those in another.

 

Sorry, I can't disagree more. I agree that it's not only "not optimal game design", but also it's a BAD way of balancing games. However, this was their decision, and they already invested whatever resources they deemed worthy into implementing this solution. Also, this and all content that came after it were made with this decision in mind.

 

There's another way of looking at this. It's their recognition that they f'ed up on the way that defense and magical defense affect the game.

 

On the other hand, balancing skills and formulas is not nearly as simple as you make it seem. It would need the work of mathematicians, hours of testing, iterating and rebalancing until they have something that they can release. Simply making everyone ignore def/mdef on the other hand will save them a lot of money on hiring those professionals. "Since some classes can already deal very high def-ignoring damage, let's just make everybody do it." Game balanging work is WAY more complex than it looks like. It's probably part of the reason why this bad solution was chosen.

 

I think that skills are so EASY to balance, like just insert a status to skill damage account, without nerfing it, but increasing final damage as percentage. Imagine, for example, Axe Tornado, Weapon Weight don't enter on damage formula, so it was so easy to balance it, with every 100 weight damage multiples  1x(one time more). 400 weight 4x dmg or even less, its just a example. With a good equiped mechanic at level 139 i'm making around 14k dmg with axe tornado, with a 400 weight axe it would be 56k dmg. To my level it keeps not that BIG dmg, then that monsters start having 60k+ hp. It's just a example, don't be pissed off please.

In Power Swing, for example, every 10 str could reduce 0.08 sec cd, so with 120 str it would be like cart ram, very low delay to use, since it's damage is not that all and is single target.

This applies to any class having low balled skills. Don't enter in my mind that a arrow should do more damage than a giant axe crushing your head in 10000 thousand pieces.

 

It's not that simple. They take into account stuff like the expected rarity of the item after release, the average level to which a given class would have access to it, what other effects you would have to give up to get this one, and so on. If you simply increase the damage, you'll generate distortion in other portions of the game that are not that bad. That's why they chose this poor solution. Also, we don't know how skill formulas are coded into the game, and it may be more troublesome to change than what we think. Who knows?

 

The problem is some effects just should not be available via shadow slots.

 

Why again? Is it detailed in said topic? If so, would mind linking it here?

[Casval17]

Bring jRO cute OP headgears instead of shadow gears, everyone can be madly cute and strong at the same time

[Hissis]

 

GMs - Please tweak the Penetration set and then release it! Suggested changes in purple.

 

''When using Dagger, Whip, Instrument, Mace, or Book type weapons''

 

Applicable Jobs: Novice, Archer, Mage, Priest, and Rogue, Gunslinger, and Ninja jobs.

 

[ChakriGuard]

It is almost Christmas. I think I miss the winter theme in Prontera and Geffen

[Ashuckel]

Calango se fudeu dnv

[Toxn]

Lets go with an argument of how monsters have insanely high MDEF or insanely high DEF, and we are forced to have penetration and tempest shadow sets. All because the same people shoving the sets down your throat, made monsters have those insane values so they could sell you the sets.

 

Congratulations, you've been played.

[Nirvanna21]

Why again? Is it detailed in said topic? If so, would mind linking it here?

 

Because it derails future implementations of effects. Who in their right mind would give a -_- about any form of DEF or MDEF penetration if they can just get it through a shadow set?

 

Shadow sets used to be just some slight stat boosting effects here and there, then they introduced Spellflow, Unfrozen and Malicious... suddenly these things change the way regular gears are used. I just spent the better part of a week trying to convince a guildie to just use a phen card instead of buying a spellflow set. Suffice to say they just were not happy about the increased variable cast time. Because really? the idea of having a negative effect to balance out a positive one just eludes some people.

 

Instead of trying to shove MDEF piercing into a shadow set, why not try taking one of the many useless items, give that 100% MDEF piercing for a particular race?

 

MVP cards aside, instead of just sticking these amazingly powerful effects in a 2nd gear tab, make them part of the primary equipment area :X

[mrricebox]

Seeing Ash hit 100k+ per hit with SR and "introduce the Penetration set cuz we need a buff" isn't sitting well with me...

[Ashuckel]

Class specific shadow set combo.