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[3596130702174734600]

I was watching a youtube video of a player playing and noticed that the final round now only has 2 players instead of 6. Did they drop the required amount of players to enter colosseum? Did they increase the rounds?

 

Did they buff monks? Cause he was doing some serious damage and back in my day, monks sucked at colosseum, but both players at the end were monks. PVP was always my interest in this game, so changes like that are huge.

[Arbalist]

I was watching a youtube video of a player playing and noticed that the final round now only has 2 players instead of 6. Did they drop the required amount of players to enter colosseum? Did they increase the rounds?

 

Did they buff monks? Cause he was doing some serious damage and back in my day, monks sucked at colosseum, but both players at the end were monks. PVP was always my interest in this game, so changes like that are huge.

Nope, the requirement is still the same. If you saw only 2 players, I can think of a few common reasons:
1) Either there were 4 players in Hide (assassins and rogues are relatively high tier in colosseum) or
2) Players simply warped out on their own using Butterfly Wings (colosseum balance is really messy, if the people are anything like me, they won't want to waste their time in the final round. Regarding you specific scenario, monks are damn hard to kill for most classes so I wouldn't waste any more of my time trying to win a futile battle)

Did they buff monks:
It depends on when "your day" was. The Advent of Valkyrie patch changed many formulas, among which was giving monks 2 defense per VIT. With the level cap being ML 40 now, you're also able to have over 300 VIT easily from just your stat build. Despite this, the pre-set stats in colosseum were never rebalanced to reflect this, which has ultimately made Monks the best defensive class in Colosseum. Other classes didn't get this generosity in their defenses so of course, they'll be taking high damage. Offensively, Guillotine Fist also deals extra damage to knocked down targets since the AOV patch and this gives them very explosive damage opportunities. The guild skill "strike a vital point" is also more common nowadays with most big guilds being able to afford maxing out their guild skills. This skill decreases your target's defense by 30% so you'll be dealing more damage in that way as well. 

Indirect buff on monks:
Usually the only way to take down high defense targets are through damage-over-time debuffs which can ignore defense. Unfortunately, the only ones capable of using strong enough debuffs in colosseum are priests, wizards, sorcerers, and crescentia. Why is this unfortunate? Because they are also very easy to kill. This makes them high priority targets in the lower rounds so that makes it harder for them to advance to the later rounds. Fewer means of killing monks ultimately gives monks an even greater edge in colosseum. 

A few recent nerfs also helped a bit:
- Battle tactics was nerfed (though it wasn't that strong in colosseum in the first place) means fewer Warriors/Knights could kill monks off in early rounds
- Hide was nerfed to control its damage output to a maximum of 2x, instead of the previous potential of dealing 4x damage from hide.
 

Edited by Arbalist, 21 December 2016 - 07:58 PM.

[3596130702174734600]

Gotcha. Pretty helpful information.

 

My time was back when monks were the joke of the colosseum and considered the worst class to even think of playing and winning with. 

Maybe everyone left, because when the game ended, there were only 2 names at the end of the round. Nobody else did any fighting and it was literally a death match between the two monks. 

Seems as if everyone else got nerfed pretty hard. Hunters, priest, and sorcerers used to dominate while the tank classes were the butt end. Times have really really changed. When I get my computer, I'll see first hand how much different it has become. I am really interested in coming back and at least looking at the character I had created.

[FieNds]

I was watching a youtube video of a player playing and noticed that the final round now only has 2 players instead of 6. Did they drop the required amount of players to enter colosseum? Did they increase the rounds?

 

Did they buff monks? Cause he was doing some serious damage and back in my day, monks sucked at colosseum, but both players at the end were monks. PVP was always my interest in this game, so changes like that are huge.

 

that video you watched is must be from RO2 Indonesian server (before merged to warpportal server)

indonesian server colosseum is modified due to low player base + low interest on colosseum.

the modified colosseum start with only 10 player(originally 30)  and eliminate 2 player(originally 6) every round, from 30-24-18-12-6 to 10-8-6-4-2 player. So yeah the final round is 1vs1 all out duel xD.

 

well maybe GM will take this modified colosseum into consideration because its rarely to get even 1fullround colosseum this day..

#MakeColosseumGreatAgain

 

sample video of this modified colosseum

[Arbalist]

Last year, VCRs actually tested the modified version of Colosseum mentioned above. The conclusion was that had the high potential to be completely one-sided and would be a very un-enjoyable experience a lot of the time.

Here's what happened:
Final round was Rogue versus Beastmaster.
Rogue killed Beastmaster once, then used Smokebomb/Hide.
The Beastmaster then spent the entire round running around blindly spamming Beast Tornado hoping to reveal Rogue.
Obviously, Rogue could see him from a mile away and could easily move out of the way of the AOE or hide in some obscure corner and never be found.
Beastmaster also killed each and every poring.
Rogue won. 

See the Colosseum map is so large and the porings were so insignificant that nothing the Beastmaster could do would ever give him the win after the first ambush. The entire round ended without a need for a second encounter. This was with a Beastmaster who has the fastest spammable AOE. Now imagine what would happen if it was another class without a good/fast AOE or who can't even use AOEs without an actual target present. It was a complete waste of time and not a lot of skill was involved.

[FieNds]

Last year, VCRs actually tested the modified version of Colosseum mentioned above. The conclusion was that had the high potential to be completely one-sided and would be a very un-enjoyable experience a lot of the time.

Here's what happened:
Final round was Rogue versus Beastmaster.
Rogue killed Beastmaster once, then used Smokebomb/Hide.
The Beastmaster then spent the entire round running around blindly spamming Beast Tornado hoping to reveal Rogue.
Obviously, Rogue could see him from a mile away and could easily move out of the way of the AOE or hide in some obscure corner and never be found.
Beastmaster also killed each and every poring.
Rogue won. 

See the Colosseum map is so large and the porings were so insignificant that nothing the Beastmaster could do would ever give him the win after the first ambush. The entire round ended without a need for a second encounter. This was with a Beastmaster who has the fastest spammable AOE. Now imagine what would happen if it was another class without a good/fast AOE or who can't even use AOEs without an actual target present. It was a complete waste of time and not a lot of skill was involved.

 

imo its not complete waste of time, at least the colosseum started

its better then sitting on colosseum waiting 30-50minutes and only got 20/30 player queue..

the idea is to reduce number of participant to start colosseum, 10 just example~

 

and about the 1x1 scenario above, the chance its not that high as last year due to recently nerfed x4 hide crit and maybe have reverse result, i mean how can you kill those 50khp bear now?. even the ^scenario happen and you on 'beastmaster side' at least you make it to round5. in any scenario 1x1 will always have class advantage. here where the fun challenge especially if you win them *imo*

[KuroiKoneko]

i mean how can you kill those 50khp bear now?

 

MoD + Strike A Vital Point + Detect Weakness, no?

 

+200% Attack Power buff from poring will make it even easier

 

10 man colo may be fun only after they balance pvp and fix colo

Edited by KuroiKoneko, 23 December 2016 - 10:09 PM.

[Arbalist]

imo its not complete waste of time, at least the colosseum started

its better then sitting on colosseum waiting 30-50minutes and only got 20/30 player queue..

the idea is to reduce number of participant to start colosseum, 10 just example~

 

and about the 1x1 scenario above, the chance its not that high as last year due to recently nerfed x4 hide crit and maybe have reverse result, i mean how can you kill those 50khp bear now?. even the ^scenario happen and you on 'beastmaster side' at least you make it to round5. in any scenario 1x1 will always have class advantage. here where the fun challenge especially if you win them *imo*

Don't get me wrong, a modified Colosseum still has plenty of merits and is still being looked at, I just mean that specific version that was tested felt lacking. Colosseum is still slated for reinvention, Warpportal isn't just going to let it die off, but they don't want short term, bandage fixes either.

My personal feedback from the testing session was the following:

Spoiler

- Lowering the number of players needed to start was definitely a positive. 
- 5 was far too many rounds if it was only going to be 10 players (losing 2 people per round is not impactful enough)
- 1v1 is really boring because it can lead to more extreme scenarios of a match being decided beforehand simply based on the composition of the players.
- Colosseum monsters need to be buffed. They still get killed in one-two attacks and deal barely any damage.
- If the limit was only 10, the chance of a pre-made group dominating a match is even higher. Whereas a pre-made of 5 would only make up 5/30 of a matchup in the current Colosseum, a 5/10 would be extremely difficult to overcome. They would only have 5 enemies instead of 25 enemies that could potentially disrupt their plans.
- This might not be all the feedback since I'm typing this from memory, but those are the biggest points.

From that, came more brainstorming:

Spoiler

- Instead of capping it at 10 players, it could instead start counting down like 3 minutes after 15 player enter, and a round could have anywhere between 15 to 30 players (it's not too different from now where people use alts to fill Colosseum then butterfly wing away anyways). This lets rounds start more frequently without limiting it to a very small number of participants at a given time.
- 3 or so rounds seems more than enough for a number like 10 (maybe 12 is a nicer number, losing 4 per round).
- Instead of 1v1, something like 4 players in the final rounds could create more dynamic combinations.
- Alternatively, a team based final round was proposed as well, randomly assigning 2v2 teams. This eventually also lead the discussion to a brand new team-based colosseum mode as well.
- In the end, the reason that rounds don't fill up isn't because of the player base - the population is steadily growing despite common belief. The bigger picture solution is to adjust the rewards and to look at balance more carefully (remember we're still using LOTS stats instead of AOV stats) to attract new players into the game mode.
- A smaller map would be desirable for rounds with fewer players.
- Again, I might've provided more feedback but those are the major points I remember without digging up the files

Regarding the post before

Spoiler

- I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, but the "waste of time" part was specifically regarding the final match. As mentioned above, lowering the starting requirements is generally positive.
- Way to kill Beastmaster is the same as always Stun them and use Strike a Vital Point while keeping your distance. The bear's weakness is that their better heals require Beast Points
- Although I see the appeal for beating an almost impossible challenge, it is far more welcoming to new players to have match-ups that are closer say, 40% to win, rather than 10% to win. Attracting fresh players to Colosseum is what will help you fill those games faster
- The ideal scenario is that all classes are equally capable of making it to the end without having unfair support from pre-made groups. That's why limiting things like "hard to kill 50k hp bears" are part of the balancing process. It's much healthier to see all 12 classes being represented in the finals than just the same 4 classes 80% of the time.

Edited by Arbalist, 23 December 2016 - 10:56 PM.

[3596130702174734600]

#MakeColosseumGreatAgain