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#1 JuicyJuices

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

What are the refinement success chances for the HD ores? Is it the same as for the normal ores? I only found the success chances for normal and enriched here http://irowiki.org/w...finement_System , not the HD ores. Also, any other relevant information this page wiki page is missing? I'm just asking because I've decided to create a pre-configured version of my program https://forums.warpp...ent-calculator/ for iRO so that players don't have to configure it.


Edited by JuicyJuices, 13 March 2017 - 03:58 AM.

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#2 Ashuckel

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:06 AM

same chance, just protects from breaking


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#3 JuicyJuices

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:24 AM

The wiki says:

"For the upgrade from +9 to +10, you may use a Safe to 10 certificate to attempt upgrading from +9 to +10. This has the same rates as doing so with HD ores, however the item will not degrade on a failed attempt."

 

However, there is no safe to 10 cert on iRO db. Is this information outdated, or is there actually safe to 10 certs?

Also, it says "This has the same rates as doing so with HD ores", which implies that the HD ores rates here are different than from the normal ores. What are these rates? Thank you.


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#4 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:57 AM

There are.
And HD ores have the same rate kf regular ores, just protect from breaking(not from downgrading). Usage if certs will protect from downgrading as well.
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#5 JuicyJuices

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:17 AM

Thank you. I think it's better if I just ask if I'm missing any ore. Here are the ones currently implemented:

  1. Phracon
  2. Emveretarcon
  3. Oridecon
  4. Elunium
  5. Enriched Oridecon
  6. Enriched Elunium
  7. HD Oridecon
  8. HD Elunium
  9. Bradium
  10. HD Bradium
  11. Carnium
  12. HD Carnium
  13. Safeto7(although not technically an ore, my program treats it like so)
  14. Safeto10(although not technically an ore, my program treats it like so)

Did I miss any?


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#6 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:24 AM

all there


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#7 lorenz1375

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:24 AM

None, i dont know if blacksmith blessing will count and when it will be implemented...
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#8 4489161205114505047

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:06 PM

The wiki says:

"For the upgrade from +9 to +10, you may use a Safe to 10 certificate to attempt upgrading from +9 to +10. This has the same rates as doing so with HD ores, however the item will not degrade on a failed attempt."

 

However, there is no safe to 10 cert on iRO db. Is this information outdated, or is there actually safe to 10 certs?

Also, it says "This has the same rates as doing so with HD ores", which implies that the HD ores rates here are different than from the normal ores. What are these rates? Thank you.

+10 Certificate are hell expensive in IRO if your item not really expensive i suggest using HD or Enriched ore.also for upgrade cheap weapon i suggest MS with job lv 70 to forge


Edited by 4489161205114505047, 14 March 2017 - 01:07 PM.

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#9 JuicyJuices

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 05:46 AM

Heya guys. Can you tell me the price, in zeny, for each of the ores?

  1. Phracon
  2. Emveretarcon
  3. Oridecon
  4. Elunium
  5. Enriched Oridecon
  6. Enriched Elunium
  7. HD Oridecon
  8. HD Elunium
  9. Bradium
  10. HD Bradium
  11. Carnium
  12. HD Carnium
  13. Safeto7
  14. Safeto10

It's just because I'll leave a preset for the prices on the cost calculator sheet of my program. Right now you have to add the ores and prices to the cost calculator sheet yourself, but I just thought, well, if I know the prices more or less I can make this pre-configured on iRO's spreadsheet as well :).

 

 

None, i dont know if blacksmith blessing will count and when it will be implemented...

Well, I made a kRO preset which takes into account bless of blacksmith, check it out on my program's thread!


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#10 Mosu

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:18 AM

Uh, I believe the only thing with a set (max) price is Pharcon and Emveretacon. The rest is from the Kafra Shop or monster drops.

So this is kinda useless.

Whoops. I forgot WP's mobile version of the forums suck. Ignore this post

Edited by Mosu, 07 June 2017 - 06:19 AM.

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#11 JuicyJuices

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:35 AM

I said zeny but it can be cash or whatever. I just assumed players can buy anything with zeny. For instance, someone buys the ore with cash, then sells it to a player for zeny. The ores are account bound or something? Anyway...cash or zeny, doesn't matter. The calculator sheet just takes the numbers and do the calculations, it doesn't care for the currency lol.


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#12 Mosu

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:38 AM

I said zeny but it can be cash or whatever. I just assumed players can buy anything with zeny. For instance, someone buys the ore with cash, then sells it to a player for zeny. The ores are account bound or something? Anyway...cash or zeny, doesn't matter. The calculator sheet just takes the numbers and do the calculations, it doesn't care for the currency lol.


My point is that prices can fluctuate very wildly. And you might not find KP sellers.
And why are you being lazy? Look up the prices yourself. Ragial is there for a reason.
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#13 Ethanasael

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:46 AM

RELAX. Let's keep this conversation free of salt.
To be honest, Real chances are MUCH lower than the wiki says, cuz if there were no downgrade, only break chance, then it would be 10% chance to sucess, 90% chancess to fail, but they add one more item to the fail chance, so it's real chance of sucess is 5% or even 7% less than the theorical chance.


Edited by Ethanasael, 07 June 2017 - 06:47 AM.

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#14 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:54 AM

To be honest, Real chances are MUCH lower than the wiki says, cuz if there were no downgrade, only break chance, then it would be 10% chance to sucess, 90% chancess to fail, but they add one more item to the fail chance, so it's real chance of sucess is 5% or even 7% less than the theorical chance.

 

nope


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#15 JuicyJuices

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

My point is that prices can fluctuate very wildly. And you might not find KP sellers.
And why are you being lazy? Look up the prices yourself. Ragial is there for a reason.

 

Hey...calm down buddy. I'm not being lazy, I just didn't know where to look for this information. I don't play on this server. But thank you, this ragial is just what I need. Although if the prices can fluctuate so much, then maybe making a preset isn't that useful, because the user would have to change the prices anyway. Hm..

 

 

To be honest, Real chances are MUCH lower than the wiki says, cuz if there were no downgrade, only break chance, then it would be 10% chance to sucess, 90% chancess to fail, but they add one more item to the fail chance, so it's real chance of sucess is 5% or even 7% less than the theorical chance.

My program does take into account downgrading and staying at the same refine level though, not just upgrading


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#16 Ashuckel

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:07 AM

question: If you don't play in this server, why does the prices HERE are a factor for you? '-'


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#17 Mosu

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:11 AM

RELAX. Let's keep this conversation free of salt.
To be honest, Real chances are MUCH lower than the wiki says, cuz if there were no downgrade, only break chance, then it would be 10% chance to success, 90% chance to fail, but they add one more item to the fail chance, so it's real chance of success is 5% or even 7% less than the theoretical chance.

Salt encourages self-learning, in my opinion :P

And iROwiki I believe was updated to accurately reflect what the GMs of iRO said the rates were.

 

question: If you don't play in this server, why does the prices HERE are a factor for you? '-'

That's my point exactly. And for the KP items, it's simply a matter of opening up the cash shop in-game to find the prices. I think the website is probably still outdated.


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#18 JuicyJuices

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:14 AM

question: If you don't play in this server, why does the prices HERE are a factor for you? '-'

 

?...they are not. I made a preset for the iRO players, and was looking for ways to improve it. I thought that configuring a preset for the prices would be helpful for you and other players, but if the price fluctuates much then maybe it's not useful because you guys would have to change the prices frequently anyway.

 

The program I made is very flexible and can be configured for any server. So I made a preset for kRO and iRO


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#19 beaupoem

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:16 AM

we already have these:

http://crmindexer.org/eventcalc/

http://choobs.org/upgrade/

 

how is yours different? i haven't looked at it


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#20 PervySageMarty

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:11 PM

I am indeed very dufferent beaupoem my dear, so marry me......wait something does not add up in this conversation.
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#21 beaupoem

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 07:48 PM

oh god. *runs*


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#22 JuicyJuices

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:21 AM

we already have these:
http://crmindexer.org/eventcalc/
http://choobs.org/upgrade/
 
how is yours different? i haven't looked at it

 
 

Marvelous Upgrade Calculator:

This calculator allows you to choose the initial refine level, it then proceeds to calculate the cost and number of items for the other levels. It doesn't show the refine success chance or averages. My program allows you to choose the initial refine level and final refine level, then it calculates the number of items and the averages and success chance. You can then use the number of items found on the cost calculator sheet as input, along with the cost of each item, to calculate how much you will spend.

 

Choobs:

Mine also includes ores buffed by event rates, includes ores buffed by weapon refine skill, refine certs, and enriched hammer. It also allows you to calculate the number of ores and equipment you need. It can tell you the success chance based on the number of equipment and vice versa. It's also extremely configurable so that you can configure it for any server you play in.

Choobs' also seem to have some problems calculating the averages. You can use the refinement simulation program to determine if the success chances calculated is correct. Try to refine a lvl 4 weapon using enriched and HD ore using 1 equipment on my program and the Choobs one you showed and compare with the simulation. On my program the success % starting from 0 is 1.4% and on Choobs' it's 1.298%. Using the simulation, it shows that it is 1.4%:

 

So here's the result of my program(descending order, from +17 to +0): "17: 0.014112000032579636|16: 0.20160000046542337|15: 2.880000006648905|14: 38.46445723165802|13: 447.3257153184317|12: 5144.4221261623725|11: 59161.03085086769|10: 680352.0311849788|9: 0.07056|8: 0.1764|7: 0.44099999999999995|6: 0.63|5: 0.9|4: 1|3: 1|2: 1|1: 1|0: 1"

and the result of the simulation(ascending order, from +0 to +17), running it 100 thousand times(took like 5 hours on my machine lol): 100000 100000 100000 100000 100000 89823 62950 44053 17612 7122 4049314828 1659344300 517772410 45034477 3872288 289190 20134 1426 0 0 0

 

So the success chance to get to +17, according to my program, is 0.014112000032579636. Running the simulator 100 thousand times, it got to +17 1426 times, which is very, very close to the value expected(0.014112000032579636 * 100000 = 1411.). to +10 and +11 the simulation overflowed because they got over 4294967295(max unsigned 32-bit int)


Edited by JuicyJuices, 10 June 2017 - 09:37 AM.

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