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Is a geared Warlock capable of being the primary DPS dealer?


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#1 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

According to iRO wiki, Warlock is an underpowered class and is no longer capable of dealing high DPS compared to some other classes:

 

 

Players will find that their roles in parties have drastically changed upon changing into this new class. No longer the primary DPS class most wanted for parties, but rather a fallback support class for controlling mobs and adding extra damage to finish off mobs.

 

Its understandable but the point is, why playing a mage character at all if all you want is a fallback support class? Id play a priest instead if I want to be a supporter. So I wonder, is this statement from iRo wiki still true nowadays? If so, is it possible for a geared warlock to overcome this problem? I can spend some zeny for higher-end gears, I am just curious how much this will help.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 06 March 2017 - 10:10 AM.

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#2 Myzery

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:34 AM

A geared warlock can kill almost anyone.

People are just closed minded.


Edited by Myzery, 06 March 2017 - 04:56 PM.

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#3 kubikyuu

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:43 AM

For TI:
Depending on what mob is in (holy and shadow can be a pain) you can pretty much carry the rest of your party with good gears.

(Or solo. :v Because why not.)

 

For Bio4/WoE:

Idk, never did those on WL.

 

For NCT:

It's perfectly possible to achieve 2-shot (no amp, 1 manual cast and 1 release) on Big Bells.

If you manage to do that you'll be a good killer. Not the best, but definetly not the worst.

The only levelrange where you might struggle a bit (= need 3 Crimson Rock) depending on gears is 150~159.

 

For instances:

You can do quite a lot of instances on WL - solo or with some friends.

Some might be a bit of a pain (OGH) others are easy to the point of being no-brainers (Bakonawa).

 

The main reason I did not delete that sentence when I edited the wiki's WL page was me focusing on gears and builds only.

Another would be that this is still kind of true if you don't have good gears.


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#4 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:21 AM

pre renew HW was the easiest AoE damage class without many gears.
Now this spot is mostly occupied by physical classes. But both can do good with money, time and skill investment.


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#5 Kusanagisama

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:29 AM

When you transition from HW to WL you will really notice a fallback, but in party against High End MVPs, you can be MVP frequently if there's a strings and the enemy is not weak against wind, or almost always if the enemy is Ghost or Undead. Warlocks are the new Exorcists.

 

The problem is that you'll need ~16b to be somewhat equivalent DPS wise to a Ranger with 5~6b worth of gears, and still be useless against shadow and holy monsters. So, if you want zeny-efficiency you will be better with a Ranger or even a Gene, which is the inbetweener in terms of gear prices.


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#6 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:50 AM

pre renew HW was the easiest AoE damage class without many gears.
Now this spot is mostly occupied by physical classes. But both can do good with money, time and skill investment.

 

When you transition from HW to WL you will really notice a fallback, but in party against High End MVPs, you can be MVP frequently if there's a strings and the enemy is not weak against wind, or almost always if the enemy is Ghost or Undead. Warlocks are the new Exorcists.

 

The problem is that you'll need ~16b to be somewhat equivalent DPS wise to a Ranger with 5~6b worth of gears, and still be useless against shadow and holy monsters. So, if you want zeny-efficiency you will be better with a Ranger or even a Gene, which is the inbetweener in terms of gear prices.

 

Okay, so the only way for a warlock to be on par with other classes, is to get overpowered gears. If this is the answer, then at least it is achievable. In a 4-6 months timespan, acquiring near 16b is possible for me. So the next question is, what gears I will need(and how much they will cost individually)? I may already have some end-game gears such as +15 Crimson Rod, so I want to see what other gears/cards I should look for.


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#7 Kusanagisama

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 12:36 PM

Generic Stuff

 

+9+ FAW [Nightmare AM] / +9 FAW[Antique Book]

+15 Crimson Rod [N.Mimic, Big Ben]

+W/E La'cryma Stick [N.Mimic, Big Ben]

+9+ Temp Int/Dex [N.Verit]

+7 Pororoca Shoes

Set of +10+ MBS with N.Arclouse/Neo Punk/Hodremlin/Alice

Set of +9s Ordinary Black Magician Hats [Yellow/Red/Blue(?) Lichterns, Tikbalang] <<< Basic ones

+9 Pale Moon Hat [Yellow Lichtern] <<< For Thanatos monsters only

+12 Celine's Ribbon or Zaha Doll Hat [Yellow Lichtern] <<< For use with La'cryma + Pororoca combo

Mid Headgear with Yellow/Red Lichtern and Tikbalang + Nero Mask

Diabolus Robe[Agav] for lower levels, Hero Magic Coat [Agav] or elemental cards for higher levels

2x Alchemy Gloves [Scaraba]

2x Geffen Magic Rings OR Pendants of Maelstorm OR RWC MATK6% with Elvira Cards

Spellflow Shadow Set (not needed if MBS is +12+)

Magical Shadow Set

 

Did I forget anything?


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#8 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 12:51 PM

I see, so you are saying that its necessary to purchase more than one set of gears? For instance, if I insert N.Mimic, Big Ben cards to my +15 Crimson Rod, they will not be fully effective unless I pair them up with shield with N.Arclouse/Neo Punk. But since no shield has 2 slots, this means I will have to keep at least 2 MBS and switch them depending on the type of monsters/circumstances. Is this correct?


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#9 Gabrielr04

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 12:52 PM

In case you're wearing a +12 mbs what's a good shadow set to use to replace the spellflow one?


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#10 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 01:08 PM

For each situation there'a a preferable set of gears. There may be some generic ones, but those most will not meet your expectation of competing/beating physical classes(even specific sets hardly beat if both are equally good geared). All classes will have and use situational stuff, he's just listing a wide variety of what may be used depending on situation.
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#11 Kusanagisama

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 01:11 PM

I see, so you are saying that its necessary to purchase more than one set of gears? For instance, if I insert N.Mimic, Big Ben cards to my +15 Crimson Rod, they will not be fully effective unless I pair them up with shield with N.Arclouse/Neo Punk. But since no shield has 2 slots, this means I will have to keep at least 2 MBS and switch them depending on the type of monsters/circumstances. Is this correct?

 

Exactly. Same for accessories, hats and mid headgears. Also, weapons, though I didn't put it there. Kubikyuu showed us that a +12 Crimson Rod with a MDEF Bypass card + Racist Magic Damage Card deals roughly the same damage as a +15 Crimson Rod with 1 MDEF Bypass Cards (or 2, one for each couple of races). Ideally you'd have 4 Highly Upgraded Crimson Rods and 4 La'cryma Sticks. Also 2 FAWS... 3 if you want a full set... and an Arc Elder Card costs at least 1 B, if you're lucky enough to find one for sale. This is essentially what makes warlocks ridiculously expensive.

 

In case you're wearing a +12 mbs what's a good shadow set to use to replace the spellflow one?

 

Elemental/Racial resist. Or just use incomplete spellflow. It's always good to have more SP, even though you'll rarely run out of it.


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#12 Sewasan

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 04:51 PM

Against ghost characters you can be perfectly the main DPS, WLs need expensive gear tho, but i wont say you need 16b on gear, you can do it perfectly fine with a proper geared WL like for example what Kusa mention. You need different sets tho, because new ways to bypassing mdef are too good to avoid them.

 

I dont even have MBS as shield and i can do a lot of stuff perfectly fine lol xD, i mean you can drop some things, ideally MBS is the best shield you want, i have my cards on valk shields and i dont care really hahahahahaha, i make my WL work anyway, Nightmare ancient mummy is really good, but you can survive without it aswell, you need some basic stuff but that basic stuff is what most classes need to be main DPS aswell. (Rangers cant survive high end content with basic mora set and a +7 elven bow)


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#13 Kusanagisama

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 05:52 PM

WLs need expensive gear tho, but i wont say you need 16b on gear, you can do it perfectly fine with a proper geared WL

 

That was just a comparison set. XD Don't know if it's really precise, though, but I think a 16B geared warlock can roughly compare to a 5~6B geared ranger. The ranger will have more generic gears, though.


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#14 Sewasan

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 06:20 PM

That was just a comparison set. XD Don't know if it's really precise, though, but I think a 16B geared warlock can roughly compare to a 5~6B geared ranger. The ranger will have more generic gears, though.

 

hahahaha i know, dont worry xD
 


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#15 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:26 PM

Exactly. Same for accessories, hats and mid headgears. Also, weapons, though I didn't put it there. Kubikyuu showed us that a +12 Crimson Rod with a MDEF Bypass card + Racist Magic Damage Card deals roughly the same damage as a +15 Crimson Rod with 1 MDEF Bypass Cards (or 2, one for each couple of races). Ideally you'd have 4 Highly Upgraded Crimson Rods and 4 La'cryma Sticks. Also 2 FAWS... 3 if you want a full set... and an Arc Elder Card costs at least 1 B, if you're lucky enough to find one for sale. This is essentially what makes warlocks ridiculously expensive.

 

 

Elemental/Racial resist. Or just use incomplete spellflow. It's always good to have more SP, even though you'll rarely run out of it.

 

I see, thats why its expensive. When it comes to elemental and racial damages, there is one thing that I wonder. As you see, both Crimson Rod and La'Cryma Sticks have 2 slots. Its possible to insert the same cards or two different cards into the slots. In the former case, will the increase in %MATK stack(ie. 2 x Zakudam Card = 20% more magic damage on Demi-Human)? If the effect will stack, do you recommend stacking the same weapon cards in each weapon?

 

 

For TI:
Depending on what mob is in (holy and shadow can be a pain) you can pretty much carry the rest of your party with good gears.

(Or solo. :v Because why not.)

 

For Bio4/WoE:

Idk, never did those on WL.

 

For NCT:

It's perfectly possible to achieve 2-shot (no amp, 1 manual cast and 1 release) on Big Bells.

If you manage to do that you'll be a good killer. Not the best, but definetly not the worst.

The only levelrange where you might struggle a bit (= need 3 Crimson Rock) depending on gears is 150~159.

 

For instances:

You can do quite a lot of instances on WL - solo or with some friends.

Some might be a bit of a pain (OGH) others are easy to the point of being no-brainers (Bakonawa).

 

The main reason I did not delete that sentence when I edited the wiki's WL page was me focusing on gears and builds only.

Another would be that this is still kind of true if you don't have good gears.

 

Thats interesting, thanks for sharing the information. What are your gears when you 2-shot KO Big Bells? And is it possible for an over-geared warlock to OHKO Big Bells using the strongest spells such as Comet? I know its quite difficult given Big Bell's huge amount of HP and lack of elemental weakness, but with proper gears its possible to ignore its magic defense completely.

 

Anyway, the point is that, I dont want my warlock to be any fallback supporter type, at least not regularly. It completely ruins the fun, a game is supposed to be fun to play isnt it? A mage character isnt meant to behave like this in the first place, I would've chosen Archbishop or Maestro/Dancer class if I want to be a supporter anyway. For these reasons, I will do whatever it takes to raise my DPS to competent level(minus god-tier cards that are practically impossible to get).


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 07 March 2017 - 09:27 PM.

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#16 kubikyuu

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 12:49 AM

Thats interesting, thanks for sharing the information. What are your gears when you 2-shot KO Big Bells? And is it possible for an over-geared warlock to OHKO Big Bells using the strongest spells such as Comet? I know its quite difficult given Big Bell's huge amount of HP and lack of elemental weakness, but with proper gears its possible to ignore its magic defense completely.

 

Anyway, the point is that, I dont want my warlock to be any fallback supporter type, at least not regularly. It completely ruins the fun, a game is supposed to be fun to play isnt it? A mage character isnt meant to behave like this in the first place, I would've chosen Archbishop or Maestro/Dancer class if I want to be a supporter anyway. For these reasons, I will do whatever it takes to raise my DPS to competent level(minus god-tier cards that are practically impossible to get).

 

From my youtube-channel (see my sig for more WL videos):

150 WL, 3-shot, using Fire Wall (I later switched to Safety Wall because it's easier and faster):

 

150 WL, 2-shot:

 

160 WL, 2shot (the only difference to the 3-shotting 150 WL is the armor):

 

Don't try to oneshot Big Bells with Comet. Comet is bleh against anything with high hp.

The only mobs I really used it against are dark/holy (and well mid ti grinding).

But with Crimson Rock, Mystical Amplification and some buff foods you can get a oneshot: See here for proof.

Note that this was done with a +12 specialized Crimson Rod and is not reliable. You could use a higher upgraded one or maybe some new gear sets that did not exist when I made that screenshot to get a reliable oneshot.


Edited by kubikyuu, 08 March 2017 - 12:54 AM.

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#17 Sewasan

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 03:48 AM

I see, thats why its expensive. When it comes to elemental and racial damages, there is one thing that I wonder. As you see, both Crimson Rod and La'Cryma Sticks have 2 slots. Its possible to insert the same cards or two different cards into the slots. In the former case, will the increase in %MATK stack(ie. 2 x Zakudam Card = 20% more magic damage on Demi-Human)? If the effect will stack, do you recommend stacking the same weapon cards in each weapon?



Thats interesting, thanks for sharing the information. What are your gears when you 2-shot KO Big Bells? And is it possible for an over-geared warlock to OHKO Big Bells using the strongest spells such as Comet? I know its quite difficult given Big Bell's huge amount of HP and lack of elemental weakness, but with proper gears its possible to ignore its magic defense completely.

Anyway, the point is that, I dont want my warlock to be any fallback supporter type, at least not regularly. It completely ruins the fun, a game is supposed to be fun to play isnt it? A mage character isnt meant to behave like this in the first place, I would've chosen Archbishop or Maestro/Dancer class if I want to be a supporter anyway. For these reasons, I will do whatever it takes to raise my DPS to competent level(minus god-tier cards that are practically impossible to get).


You should check The pvm Replay/vídeos section more often, kusa, zayaan, kubi, fuyuki, me and other wls usually upload videos of various instances and stuff, there you can see The dmg on high end wls and decent geared ones, you can perfectly play this class, The other day i was the Main dps on a bio3 party, works pretty good (we do it only for funsies).
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#18 Mulder1

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:20 AM

I used to solo Bio 3 and 2 in mah warlock back when I was leveling... kinda slow and boring but since I had nothing better to do...

 

In bio 3, SG + CL is pretty good since most mobs will freeze and you can kill paladins without any problem with  CL or SE or TV.

 

Hmm, don't remember much of it but that's basically what I used to do xD


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#19 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:14 AM

From my youtube-channel (see my sig for more WL videos):

150 WL, 3-shot, using Fire Wall (I later switched to Safety Wall because it's easier and faster):

 

150 WL, 2-shot:

 

160 WL, 2shot (the only difference to the 3-shotting 150 WL is the armor):

 

Don't try to oneshot Big Bells with Comet. Comet is bleh against anything with high hp.

The only mobs I really used it against are dark/holy (and well mid ti grinding).

But with Crimson Rock, Mystical Amplification and some buff foods you can get a oneshot: See here for proof.

Note that this was done with a +12 specialized Crimson Rod and is not reliable. You could use a higher upgraded one or maybe some new gear sets that did not exist when I made that screenshot to get a reliable oneshot.

 

Thanks for the information. Seems that at least, 2HKO Big Bell using Crimson Rock is completely doable with warlock at lv150-160. I replied to the post in which you managed to OHKO Big Bell, its amazing.

 

 

I used to solo Bio 3 and 2 in mah warlock back when I was leveling... kinda slow and boring but since I had nothing better to do...

 

In bio 3, SG + CL is pretty good since most mobs will freeze and you can kill paladins without any problem with  CL or SE or TV.

 

Hmm, don't remember much of it but that's basically what I used to do xD

 

I think Jack Frost may be better for you if you just want to leave it frozen for Chain Lightning or Mob Control. It guarantees 100% chance frozen(unless they are immune), and the casting time/cast delay is much shorter. Storm Gust for a warlock is actually used to deal larger DPS as a water-element spell, since Jack Frost is a weak spell at dealing damages.


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#20 Ashuckel

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:19 AM

Jack Frost is not weak at all


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#21 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:30 AM

Jack Frost is not weak at all

 

Its not a weak spell in general, the 100% chance frozen makes it a very useful skill for mob control. From DPS's point of view though, its a weak attacking spell as it wont deal enough damage. I heard Jack Frost was a lot stronger until they nerfed Frost Misty though.
 


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#22 Ashuckel

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 07:34 AM

Jack frost deals more than 4k% on a target under freezing(50% chance from frost misty lv5) and it's rather spammable on it's own, and super spammable on strings/sacra
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#23 Sewasan

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

Frost misty+jackfrost is godly to clean mob on strings, dps wise jf+FM is far superior than SG

Edited by Sewasan, 10 March 2017 - 12:44 PM.

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#24 Ashuckel

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 02:15 PM

DPS wise JF spam alone is superior to SG, as SGs dont stack and you can cast enough JF during a SG duration to be the same/more damage
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#25 Kusanagisama

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:46 PM

It will drain your SP, though.


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