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Patch Notes 03/08/2017 [Complete]


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#51 Coolsam

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:33 AM

Still adjusting to these asp/msp caps but I'm liking it so far since everyone can catch up to eachother


It seems to be less harsh to PoS users or those who kept it on the side. Why I said my gear transition wasn't too harsh aside from some extracts and resockets.
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#52 FeintsSiphon

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

The game had been flawed in the beginning when attack speed and movement speed are investable, which causes imbalance between classes and break the role of each classes. Investing attack speed and movement speed shouldn't have been a thing. 

However, it's done when it's done. I'm done too.


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#53 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:58 AM

You cant just set such a cap without thinking about the real facts.

 

 

My suggestions are to divide PvE and PvP caps and set the cap depending on the amount of time the animation actually takes (the shorter the animation the lower the cap). 

+1

 

The main problem with PvE and PvP caps are that Duels are still a thing and the PvE caps will apply in a PvP mode, since the rest PvP modes are in different maps which means it's just as simple as applying a certain buff when being inside like they do in BSQ and Breeze Run.

 

But the animations are probably because if you stun with a warrior you need to do a certain combo like X+X+Z or something (just an example), while with summoners you just need to hold down X and that helps with canceling the animation which just makes the difference even bigger.


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#54 Popcorn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:14 AM

Really guys, what do you think what would have happened if we would have set the ATK cap lower than 270%? 

We have thought about these caps and came to the conclusion that these caps are good as they are.

 

What makes me wonder is that no one really cared when there were no caps if every class were able to get the same amount. No one complained that the magicians classes were able to get the same high stats all other classes were able to get. 

 

Anyways and as always - we have noticed your feedback and thank you for your input. We will continue to make this game more interesting and fun for everyone and are taking all of your criticism (positive and negative) into account for future decisions.

 

 


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#55 zirothos

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:06 AM

Popcorn yes the F7 is affected by the Caps too.


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#56 Popcorn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:08 AM

Popcorn yes the F7 is affected by the Caps too.

 

Thank you for the info. We will fix that with the maintenance on 3/22.


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#57 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:35 PM

Really guys, what do you think what would have happened if we would have set the ATK cap lower than 270%?
We have thought about these caps and came to the conclusion that these caps are good as they are.

No one complained that the magicians classes were able to get the same high stats all other classes were able to get.

Another option is to make the ones with 300% as cap have a bit higher since some classes like warrior have a longer animation for their X than a summy as Vossel stated.

Also I think a lot of people complained about Magicians being broken in the past since they have always been with too much healing and just always being a good class for everything, 1v1's, team PvP, BSQ, Emporia (if good geared), Elga solo, farming element etc. The only thing I don't see them excel at is doing F1 spamming. And they couldn't get "the same high stats all other classes were able to get" since if we take Movement speed as an example, the agile classes such as Twins, Archers and Ninjas still could outrun them with the same investment in Movementspeed gear thanks to Archer 50 more base Movespeed, Twin lightspeed buff and Ninjas transformation. By putting the same cap there's no real way of dealing with a high MS magician anymore since their pressure and often high HP since they get a lot of tankiness in general and excel at almost everything means that you will be at a huge disadvantage when fighting against them.

The same MS cap for "all" classes is my main issue and the atk speed could be slightly modified for the long attack animation classes to make it equal to everyone since I think that's what you're going for here.

Edited by Yuumikitsu, 09 March 2017 - 12:39 PM.

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#58 Popcorn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:58 PM

300% is the proper value to ensure everything is working correctly. We won't do any further adjustments to these caps in the near future. But making the higher is no option at all.

 

 


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#59 Vossel

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:01 PM

capping stuff will just end in people getting more tankier and forcing a tank meta again, i as Overlord can reach 300% attackspeed while going full defence (~45k defence, over 30k magic defence+more than 100k HP PvE) and maintaining 600% crit dmg and around 300 ms.

if you just make an overall cap you make summoner stronger, since they were already able to get 400+ ms with ~400% attack speed and good crit damage and their huge base dmg while not loosing really some defence.

capping stuff this way, only makes summoner more tankier than actually weaker like all other classes got compared to them.


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#60 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:03 PM

300% is the proper value to ensure everything is working correctly. We won't do any further adjustments to these caps in the near future. But making the higher is no option at all.


Then another option is to make the animation slower for the X-heavy classes or make it shorter for long animation classes. Might be a harder thing to do but I didn't really see any issue with 340% atk speed since that's probably all you need to add to make it more balanced. And I hope you didn't ignore the main part of my message which was the whole Magician part.

Edited by Yuumikitsu, 09 March 2017 - 01:08 PM.

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#61 Popcorn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 01:56 PM

As I already said, the values are set for a reason how they're set. You may discuss this further or not - you can because it's a discussion forum - as long as everything stays clean and civil. I have said what I had to say. The current caps are based on a team decision and there will be no higher values.

 


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#62 Elijazz

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:08 PM

I can see a lot of people are complaining here. Just wait for Popcorn to fix all the issues, the balancing of class is not like your easy homework that can be done in less than an hour. He already said that it will follow further balancing of class so let's just wait. 

 

Just continue with the change and we will support you.


Edited by Elijazz, 09 March 2017 - 02:09 PM.

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#63 allerulz

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 02:25 PM

How does this change affect the guild boosts? Will the 10% still go up for attack speed? Also, what about the myhome buffs?


Edited by allerulz, 09 March 2017 - 02:27 PM.

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#64 NavaraDesen

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:18 PM

My concern is now that these caps are in place and the MS is equal with an AS that isn't much different; classes like the one I play, Sentinal, is now pretty much useless in PvP. With not much to do end game, it's all people really have. It's not like many of us possess the time anymore to just make an entirely new character from scratch for the purpose of PvP.

 

I can't enjoy PvP even more now because the fast agile class such as archers and ninjas now aren't  faster or agiler. You guys are talking about a re-balance but it's probably a far way off. Stuff like this, which makes it even harder for classes that were already in bad shape, makes the situation much worse. If anything the MS cap could be changed for classes not meant to move as fast as the other.

 

I get the need for the caps, it makes sense, but at this point its really hurting classes that were already hurt. Without any sign of a re-balance coming soon then it just lowers the drive to even try to PvP more. It limits the classes that are even worth playing and it makes it that much harder to play with a main that is one of those classes. Lets face it getting up to lvl 85 and gearing up is hard and when its already done you don't really want to do it again. 

 

So my question is: since now some classes are really suffering from the change what is going to be done about it?


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#65 Precrush

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

I don't see why it matters that some classes have longer x-atk animations, the classes aren't all supposed to work the same way.

Also saying stuff like sentinels are useless in pvp now is kind of funny since this change was done yesterday. There hasn't been nearly enough time to assess what these caps mean for pvp balance. Besides as this wasn't a balance change even though it does effect balance for sure. I just mean it shouldn't be treated as a balance change.

Anyway, look at the problems this creates which are: hp meta or less qear variety, classes with inherit ms buffs loosing some of the advantage from those and people having to change their gear again.

All of these could've been only sorted by changing the scaling of these stats or soft caps that wouldn't be too punishing. But that would've still meant everyone would've been limited to these values we got the hard cap at now, it just would've been much harder to get there. Those would've really been the only options, limiting other classes to say 300 ms for example would just be so incredibly unjustified for the players of those classes, no way that is happening.

I think people wouldn't probably have seen the fact how with different scaling for example they didn't actually lose anything when compared to other players, even though they would've moved slower. It's like if you half the speed humans could possibly run the 100 meter race would stay the same, but would people think it was as exciting if they had seen Bolt run it before this change was made?

TLDR: We should wait and see what this means for balance before jumping to conclusions and a hard cap was probably the least painful option in the end considering player reaction, even though I would've liked something different.
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#66 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:21 PM

As I already said, the values are set for a reason how they're set. You may discuss this further or not - you can because it's a discussion forum - as long as everything stays clean and civil. I have said what I had to say. The current caps are based on a team decision and there will be no higher values.


As I said, my main issue is not the Attack speed caps. It's the movement speed caps. So far I've only seen you say: "We can't go lower than 270%". But what about the 400 MS cap that was the main point of my entire text and I gave reasons as to why it was as well. Is 400 too low as well or what are your thoughts on this? "There will be no higher values". At least 350 MS for non-agile classes will make it a bit more balanced and that way you wont have to make the value higher.
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#67 Coolsam

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:33 PM

I understand why a lot of Sentinels are angered by the drastic (Some cases over 250+) drop in movement speed. But the class has not dropped in usefulness at all.

 

Remember how before everyone had access to over 400 movement speed and not just archers we had tons of complaints about Telsa? Well it's actually very useful due to slower speeds of all classes. Silence, Freezes, Chain stuns and Jump/Dash Blocks are still there. Wombo-Combo potential when teamed with mages.

 

"But I can't run fast" You might say. But you can run 5 PoS with 3 Hero BD and utilize that juicy 300% Attack Speed Cap. Sentinel has some surprisingly good X-spam and Z-stuns are always nice. 400 is not hard to reach so new gear options allow for a more damage or even more survival based approach.

 

A Similar argument can be made for Savages. 6 PoS is pretty good with a movement speed shoes or even 4 Hero PoS/4 Rare Elga for tons of health. Ninjas have other options as well being a class that can very frequently crit which ignores some Physical Defense.

 

My point is however, do not declare a class entirely useless due to a drop in movement speed.


Edited by Coolsam, 09 March 2017 - 09:34 PM.

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#68 Yuumikitsu

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:39 PM

But that would've still meant everyone would've been limited to these values we got the hard cap at now, it just would've been much harder to get there. Those would've really been the only options, limiting other classes to say 300 ms for example would just be so incredibly unjustified for the players of those classes, no way that is happening.


Incredibly unjustified? Then how do you explain the Galaxy Crit/Evade patch that they made individual values for all classes and it wasn't unjustified? It's just normal for someone who's trained their whole life being agile/stealthy would be faster than someone who practices magic.

Some Changes have been done for Max Stats
Destroyer
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 35%
Max Critical Damage - 400%
Dragoon
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 40%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Invoker
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Earth Master
Max Evade - 60%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Jumeaux
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 400%
Ninja
Max Evade - 60%
Max Block - 20%
Max Critical Success Rate - 35%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Overlord
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 40%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Savage
Max Evade - 60%
Max Block - 20%
Max Critical Success Rate - 35%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Sentinel
Max Evade - 60%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 35%
Max Critical Damage - 300%
Sorcerer
Max Evade - 50%
Max Block - 0%
Max Critical Success Rate - 20%
Max Critical Damage - 300%

They could make something similar to this. Just with Movement speed or attack speed as well if people still think that it's too unfair with similar Atk speed caps. Even without caps the movement speed classes could get higher thanks to buffs. And that's what made it pretty balanced. But it seems like everyone forgot about those buffs and now with the same MS cap Magicians will dominate harder than before.
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#69 5143121023173906760

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:55 PM

Oh boy, the evade / aim rate meta was so fun ! LET'S ADD BLOCK RATE OVER IT
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#70 Popcorn

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:09 PM

I have stated the team decision very clear several times in this topic now. We have finally gotten enough feedback as of now. 

 

We appreciate all the feedback we got regarding the current speed fixes and will take all criticism into account for future decisions.

Since it seems that everyone has stated their opinions and there is no further different contribution to this subject this topic should be finally locked.

 

Thank you.

 

topic closed

 


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