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[unpopular opinion] Client Edits


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#1 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:37 AM

I wrote  the GMs a couple of days ago to get some clarification on what edits are okay/not okay.

 

First they wrote back saying "okay" and I was like "what about the ________ they're using?"

 

GM writes back "actually, not okay!"

 

All this okay/not okay ambiguous client editing stuff is so confusing and I mean really, it feels like it's grey areas all around, there's no way a player can really determine if what they are doing is going to be legal.

 

l8rK6IU.gif

 

I'm saying this because any client edit can be argued as advantageous over someone who doesn't have it.... and in order to have it, you either need to come from an illegal server or know a guy. I know it sounds obvious but things like

 

* easier to see status effects

* removed potion animation

 

(These are two random examples) can improve client performance or visibility in game. I know its "just Quality of Life" but having a better QoL over another player allowing your gameplay to improve is an advantage, is it not? Pneuma timers are a great example because they allow an aco class to micromanage their gameplay more efficiently than someone who doesn't have them. Which is why people in my guild are making a "Legal Edits GRF pack" to share with eachother.

 

 

Maybe I'm just biased because I don't even like RCX. I hate having to jump through hoops and computer science things out to get my client to be "equal" to the supposed opposition. (I actually spent a few hours yesterday trying to get RCX working because for some reason it just wouldn't - and I need to know where gutterlines are and there's no official method for that and there should be.) and it just, in my opinion, changes the game as a whole from what it used to be.

 

Not only that but, RO is a game that basically relies on it's appeal to it's older playerbase. Seeing videos of what looks like a different game essentially, quite often detracts them from the nostalgia that would bring them back.

 

 

Okay rant over. Flame or whatever, shoot. I know the staff can't police client edits but that doesn't change how it just makes it feel like a different game now that it's openly encouraged. Even worse that it's encouraged but not shareable unless you know a guy.


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#2 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:40 AM

Once they get rid of gray areas once and for all and be crystal clear, then we can talk seriously

 

How hard is it to disable all edits. This for sure wont stop people from using edits but this also will make them have to go over to do extra work in order to remove their edits before submitting a video/a screenshot as a proof when GM team asks for it in order to assist. Or maybe ... only live record is acceptable /gg

 

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Edited by ChakriGuard, 15 March 2017 - 09:45 AM.

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#3 Myzery

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

The GMs don't have to clarify anything because people will use anything they can to get an advantage.

As long as you're not using something obvious like NDL or recording yourself using a modified client, they can't do anything to catch you.


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:58 AM

The GMs don't have to clarify anything because people will use anything they can to get an advantage.

As long as you're not using something obvious like NDL or recording yourself using a modified client, they can't do anything to catch you.

 

Not what I'm saying. I'm actually saying that the game has changed too much and client edits are a lot to do with it.

 

This is not the RO I remember! And it sucks!

 


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#5 Myzery

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:59 AM

It does suck but the lack of attention and punishment from the GMs is what is wrong here.


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#6 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:00 AM

Being private is not seeing too many out of the world stuffs in-game.

 

On-topic:

 

Client edits are unavoidable because it's client side and iRO is not using any gg. The only thing they could do is prevent it or block it server-side and I think it's impossible. The question of morality is not answerable by yes or no it's a long quiz- a written exam per se.


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#7 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:04 AM

A lot of this bs heavily affects people who are content creators for the game. Knowing you have to toe the line 100% and even the GMs don't know what's allowed/not allowed until the discussion comes up is a huge problem.

 

In theory you can get anyone who makes a video/stream banned for any edit with some mental gymnastics.


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#8 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:26 AM

The undeniable root of problems is the badness ...  :p_idea:  :p_hi:

:p_devil:  :p_angel:  The obvious solution is (illegal) edits ... 

 


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#9 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:29 AM

In the end it's just a game. It's more satisfying to win a war without taking advantage with what you know how. Just play fair but that's for me. Yes, some people has God-complex. As to what they say eye for an eye but being humble at the end of the day doesn't cost you a dime.


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#10 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:34 AM

Originally I was gonna call the topic "Am I the only one who likes the game with a vanilla client"? lol

 

Maybe it's more prevalent on classic, idk, but I just hate how the GM team "Okaying" the edits turned a lot of RO videos in to "who can edit the most of their GRF as possible"

 

it's ugly af.

 

Then people feel like they need to do it back to keep things "fair"

 

I can't personally see myself using any of the edits other than the more transparent stormgust/LoV/meteor storm because that makes video quality A+ without taking away from RO being RO.


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#11 Bohem

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:40 AM

lol gutter line .... brings back good old memories of me dying from HO mobs in clockd tower dungeon... 

 

 

 

 


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#12 DrArthur

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:48 AM

Being private is not seeing too many out of the world stuffs in-game.

 

On-topic:

 

Client edits are unavoidable because it's client side and iRO is not using any gg. The only thing they could do is prevent it or block it server-side and I think it's impossible. The question of morality is not answerable by yes or no it's a long quiz- a written exam per se.

You act as if hack shields have ever been proven to do anything other than cause aggravations for legitimate players.
Hackers/people looking to use third-party clients disable the hack shields entirely, leaving the aggravating problems like crashes, hard-drive failure (GameGuard) and so on to the people who play legit.

 

It's why invasive DRM doesn't work---you cause people to pirate the game to avoid the horrible DRM that bogs down the game.


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#13 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:50 AM

Nah, there are still alot of people that uses vanilla clients. Like to use or no other choice doesn't really matter. To take advantage of the game with client edits should be discourage.

 

The only thing I want to do is make my sprite into a gm and edit Minstrel's Frost Joke/Unbarring Octave to something else other than that no way.


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#14 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:52 AM

Nah, there are still alot of people that uses vanilla clients. Like to use or no other choice doesn't really matter. To take advantage of the game with client edits should be discourage.

 

The only thing I want to do is make my sprite into a gm and edit Minstrel's Frost Joke/Unbarring Octave to something else other than that no way.

 

Female GM I hope, male GM is fugly


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#15 havokkmorands

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:53 AM

iRO need the same anti NDL system from bRO.

You can add it, but won't work. 


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#16 Nathy

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:59 AM

Xellie I'm pretty sure I've seen you use a modified client that minimises aoe effects on some of your streams
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#17 Undying

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:02 AM

If people want to cheat they will be able to cheat. There is no stopping it.

 

Personally, I like some client edits. I currently don't use any on Chaos, but there are lots that I have enjoyed.


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#18 TENyrsEXP

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:02 AM

Next stop: Forcing everyone to play on equally garbage computers.


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#19 Xellie

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:03 AM

Xellie I'm pretty sure I've seen you use a modified client that minimises aoe effects on some of your streams

 

All of my streams, actually.

 

 

I can't personally see myself using any of the edits other than the more transparent stormgust/LoV/meteor storm because that makes video quality A+ without taking away from RO being RO.

 

I do it for video quality. (mini-effect should be a thing for AOE), but they don't provide an advantage in the same way. My main thing though is how "unRO" it all becomes. How everything devolves into who can have the most poopy looking grf.

 

There's a ton of stuff I don't use. RCX is among them.
 


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#20 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:04 AM

You act as if hack shields have ever been proven to do anything other than cause aggravations for legitimate players.
Hackers/people looking to use third-party clients disable the hack shields entirely, leaving the aggravating problems like crashes, hard-drive failure (GameGuard) and so on to the people who play legit.

 

It's why invasive DRM doesn't work---you cause people to pirate the game to avoid the horrible DRM that bogs down the game.

 

No it doesn't but then never encountered such problems during my entire life playing RO with GG. On my experience the problem will only show if you try to edit your client by removing/disabling the GG. Updates do that.

 

I'm not against it but I like RO without it.

 

Female GM I hope, male GM is fugly

 

True that but then it's male.


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#21 ShoLin

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:05 AM

They could constantly change the sprite files and add something in that will crash you if you don't patch.


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#22 zerowon

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:07 AM

They could constantly change the sprite files and add something in that will crash you if you don't patch.

 

that's cute you want them to be able to actually change that weekly we cant even get kvm  or a working challenge dungeon or a conquest bg to change the farm fest that goes on now let alone coding for that.


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#23 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

They could constantly change the sprite files and add something in that will crash you if you don't patch.

 

You can bypass this by avoiding other users. You can't if the change is on the ro executable.


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#24 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

All of my streams, actually.


I do it for video quality. (mini-effect should be a thing for AOE), but they don't provide an advantage in the same way. My main thing though is how "unRO" it all becomes. How everything devolves into who can have the most poopy looking grf.

There's a ton of stuff I don't use. RCX is among them.


You can always watch my "RO" videos <3

Too bad I don't have a lovely British accent to add on :(
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#25 ChaoticRK

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:15 AM

I can do a British accent but sounds like Irish and the longer you listen to it sounds more like a Chinese.


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